George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

BluePlanet

Deleted User wrote: »

It does stop 100 years ago though..

Only because they didn't bother.
Is it actually necessary to mention Selma, Alabama?

splinter65

KiKi III wrote: »

Is shooting your own citizens a valid and proportionate response to breaking a curfew? Did they not have a bunch of other options available to them?

What would you like the police to do in this instance, bearing in mind the current conditions ? I’m genuinely interested.
I’d also like to know what you feel is so very difficult about staying within your home for the curfew period.

AllForIt

London is awash with black on black crime and if anything the police are way to lenient on them that has let knife crime get way out of control.

This is pathetic.

https://twitter.com/Michael_Heaver/status/1267079910662778880

Blueshoe

splinter65 wrote: »

What would you like the police to do in this instance, bearing in mind the current conditions ? I’m genuinely interested.
I’d also like to know what you feel is so very difficult about staying within your home for the curfew period.

Write them a letter?
Call in for tea and explain the situation?
Give them money to stay indoors?

The mind boggles with some of these people

1800_Ladladlad

ElmoLaw wrote: »

no need to name call or attack. simply referring to the fact that it is alot of kids in their early 20s that are protesting/rioting in the US. and it is a generation that is very centered around activism. Thanks

Did you just get offended on behalf of other people? Who is attacking you? Where did I call you a name? The current generation of Irish youth is very centred around US P.C politics and the appropriation of African American culture and its many issues when they choose to, all under the guise of progressiveness. They massively misrepresent our own history and falsely equate the social and political issues of the US with our own in a melodramatic and misguided fashion. Thank you. Next.

keano25

What does looting some persons shop have to do with justice for George?

Just an excuse for a lot of people to act the bollox.

KiKi III

splinter65 wrote: »

You do know that a curfew is neither optional or conditional?

The level of deference you and Blueshoe display is frightening. People like you are literally how authoritarians come to power.

“It’s the law.”

“It’s a curfew.”

No need to question whether the actions are right or just then. No need to examine whether the power the authorities have is being exerted appropriately.

Just blindly comply as the tear down societal norms like shooting at citizens generally being a no-no.

Blueshoe

Blueshoe wrote: »

They weren't obeying the curfew. Curfew is everybody in their homes by 8pm. They were outside. The police don't know if those people are going to attack or not as they pass. They are not obeying curfew.

The police shot at them with paint rounds. Crowd dispersal ammunition not live rounds. Standard

Do the police have absolute authority to shoot a citizen for violation of the law?
Of course not. The police are accountable. They can only use proportionate response.

Do not confuse live ammunition with riot control paint rounds.

The police arent being held to any sort of account there though....

They killing people with relative impunity there as long as i can remember??



Only difference is,this was videoed and whole world has seen,what their upto.......deos anyone honestly believe this lads killers will face anything other than, at best token justice??

Sonics2k

Blueshoe wrote: »

They weren't obeying the curfew. Curfew is everybody in their homes by 8pm. They were outside. The police don't know if those people are going to attack or not as they pass. They are not obeying curfew.

The police shot at them with paint rounds. Crowd dispersal ammunition not live rounds. Standard

Do the police have absolute authority to shoot a citizen for violation of the law?
Of course not. The police are accountable. They can only use proportionate response.

Do not confuse live ammunition with riot control paint rounds.

I'm very much aware of the difference between live ammunition and riot control rounds. However I don't think you realize how dangerous riot rounds are.

Okay, so you believe that what they did was a proportionate response? A bunch of people watching them walk past, no shouting, no abuse, no missiles thrown, no attacks.

The reasonable response in this case is to shoot at them?

For reference, here's the curfew rules for Minneapolis

https://kstp.com/news/curfew-put-in-place-for-minneapolis-friday-8-pm-through-weekend/5744981/

You'll note it says they need to be at home, not inside. These people were standing on their balconies and in their doorways.

splinter65

mdudy wrote: »

you sound mental

Mental?!?
Are all laws and rules optional and conditional or just the ones you don’t agree with on any given day? Is it best for the majority of the citizens ( who don’t want to burn and loot) that everyone stay inside overnight unless there’s an emergency ?

KiKi III

Blueshoe wrote: »

Write them a letter?
Call in for tea and explain the situation?
Give them money to stay indoors?

The mind boggles with some of these people

Arrest them would be a more normal response. Shooting at them would usually be considered very much a last resort.

ElmoLaw

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Did you just get offended on behalf of other people? Who is attacking you? Where did I call you a name? The current generation of Irish youth is very centred around US P.C politics and the appropriation of African American culture and its many issues when they choose to, all under the guise of progressiveness. They massively misrepresent our own history and falsely equate the social and political issues of the US with our own in a melodramatic and misguided fashion. Thank you. Next.

hey listen what are you talking about? how is this a meaningful debate. i was speaking about the younger generation protesting and you are saying this is ignorant. you mentioned the fisher price protests and i asked you to send me a link as interesting in learning about it. im not sure what the issue is? why are you angry? wishing you love and peace and please be happy. thanks

KiKi III

Absolutely mental that the position “Shooting at your own citizens is bad and should really be a very last resort” is being argued against here.

Mad hill to choose to die on lads.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

And as if by magic, he pops up. Any reply to what I asked, numerous times?

Did similar with my questions, he doesn't appear to like to explain in what scenario kneeling on a handcuffed man's neck for 9 minutes is justifiable.

mdudy

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

Did you just get offended on behalf of other people? Who is attacking you? Where did I call you a name? The current generation of Irish youth is very centred around US P.C politics and the appropriation of African American culture and its many issues when they choose to, all under the guise of progressiveness. They massively misrepresent our own history and falsely equate the social and political issues of the US with our own in a melodramatic and misguided fashion. Thank you. Next.

No they aren't. They're just compassionate, educated, and care about the wider world and its systemic and systematic inequality. How is that a bad thing? :rolleyes:

Blueshoe wrote: »

Do the police have absolute authority to shoot a citizen for violation of the law?
Of course not. The police are accountable. They can only use proportionate response.

Do not confuse live ammunition with riot control paint rounds.

They literally blinded an identified journalist in one eye with those 'proportionate response'.

Billhook

All empires implode in on themselves, then something else is tried and tested and same scenario.
Different tribes, never happy with the status quo, control freaks both on the left and right.
Each with a selfish agenda, society right now is like a nut house.
Protest's in America, gang wars in suburbia all over the western world.
I seen a recent clip of a load of fit middle class guy's in Cork go postal on a load of non educated delenquents who were more than likely unfit, weren't eating right and probably addict's and broken men.

Their less affluent tribe were probably picking on some of these middle class kid's now and again throwing out threaths and trying to deal drug's etc...a turf war on a local scale. I don't know all the facts so thats my observation.

The middle east is probably having a great laugh and giggle at the state of the so called western civilization.

I see it here on board's, people going around in circles the left and the right, politics and economics.
It's an echo chamber of my dick is bigger than your dick.
I know nothing about both so I cannot claim to know the solution to the big issues.

It probably goes back to education and the schooling system and definitely religion has a lot to answer to.

Trust is very important, but how the fock can people feel secure when there's no trust in the system. Leadership is another problem.
One man usually leading the show, one CEO usually a man, one manager, assistant manager, supervisor, line leaders... what a load of sh17

Why can't you have a man and a woman working together in leadership and maybe a couple type strategy, men and women think differently and if I'm having trouble with a woman in my life I'll talk to a trusted female friend, or visa versa with a man...

Then again it's just my observation of how it's easier to sort out problems and find a solution.

Art, poetry and music is very important in my life so is nature and biodiversity.

What's the answer to the bone of contention ?

I read a lot of philosophy and sociology and love metaphors. Metaphors are great for figuring out problems.

Sometimes a good row and a heated debate is good too.
But I'm afraid that the western world is going to go rock bottom before the dust settles and there's a solution.
A lot of pain too, nobody's safe now.
Whether you're in your ivory tower or living in a damp flat in the city, a farm house in West Cork, or a pent house suite in Dublin, or a mansion in lover's walk in Cork...fears always the same...

I'm sitting here on a rock by the Atlantic ocean.. I've been through a lot of sh1t in life.
Drank and miss managed all my money in 2003, basically rock bottom and I had to build myself up mentally, physically and financially.
I lived there in absolute hell, my head was very sick for year's after getting sober.
The guilt and shame of all my drinking binges, spending binges and losing friends and colleagues through my alcoholism and being an absolute vvanker.
Still a bit of a knob sometimes but every day I'm getting better...
I'd love a good passionate afternoon that's for sure, my partner is outside the 5k limit so that's out of the equation until the 20k is implemented.

Sexually and emotionally frustrated, a bit like society frustrated and disappointed with our wishes and aspirations always like a carrot which is dangling from a rope in front of us.

It seems like the same people have the same opportunity, the wealthy, the people who had nothing and ****ed up their lives through addiction and unsocial decisions and decided to knuckle down get back to third level education and build their lives. Then you've people who are born with intelligence and are able to focus on a goal, work hard and enjoy life and make good decisions..

The rest of society are being trodden on by their own insecurities, jealousy and anger.
Filling the void with, resentment, alcohol, drug's,sex, violence, justifiable anger, and validation through social media etc
Would I judge them no, that's their journey and it's none of my business.

Chasing that crock of gold, always the next hit will make life easier.
You loose your wallet or passport.
Youre pulling the house apart, intermittently in your head you think if I find that wallet or passport I'll have nothing else to worry about then drive up the road and the monkey is on the back again.

Rinse and repeat...

Watch Good Will hunting, that's a beautiful movie one of the most inspirational movie's I ever watched...

Lundstram

KiKi III wrote: »

Arrest them would be a more normal response. Shooting at them would usually be considered very much a last resort.

Arrest them and take a few cops off the streets in the process? They're being shot by paintballs not AK47 rounds. Quit the dramatics.

Blueshoe

Sonics2k wrote: »

I'm very much aware of the difference between live ammunition and riot control rounds. However I don't think you realize how dangerous riot rounds are.

Okay, so you believe that what they did was a proportionate response? A bunch of people watching them walk past, no shouting, no abuse, no missiles thrown, no attacks.

The reasonable response in this case is to shoot at them?

For reference, here's the curfew rules for Minneapolis

https://kstp.com/news/curfew-put-in-place-for-minneapolis-friday-8-pm-through-weekend/5744981/

You'll note it says they need to be at home, not inside. These people were standing on their balconies and in their doorways.

1

Homelander

AllForIt wrote: »

This is pathetic.

https://twitter.com/Michael_Heaver/status/1267079910662778880

Headbangers who have a problem with democratic society and presumably want to live in some sort of commune world where Government's or police don't exist.

They should be water-cannoned into the Thames. Idiots.

Sonics2k

Lundstram wrote: »

Arrest them and take a few cops off the streets in the process? They're being shot by paintballs not AK47 rounds. Quit the dramatics.

They're not paintballs, and they can do serious damage to people.

Blueshoe

Sonics2k wrote: »

They're not paintballs, and they can do serious damage to people.

https://youtu.be/ZlU8OOUMq94
Covers all sides

Cody montana

Watching videos of the American police attacking people.
Absolutely thuggery.
No wonder people are rising up.

Billhook

Homelander wrote: »

Headbangers who have a problem with democratic society and presumably want to live in some sort of commune world where Government's or police don't exist.

They should be water-cannoned into the Thames. Idiots.

That's the way it's going a world of contradictions and violence...
Just ignore them, bunch of loosers and misfits.

I'm going to stay out of Dodge, I'm too content with my chicken's and garden to be worrying about people who don't give a fock about you or me...

A good book is always a better idea..

Lundstram

Cody montana wrote: »

Watching videos of the American police attacking people.
Absolutely thuggery.
No wonder people are rising up.

Yes, the police should send all these violent people a strongly worded letter to desist.

Blueshoe

Australian news report showing the violence.

Absolute insanity.

https://youtu.be/ZlU8OOUMq94

The situation has far changed from the murder of George Floyd and has turned into violence, looting, riot and attacking police.

All sides saying radicals on all sides have exploited the situation

splinter65

KiKi III wrote: »

The level of deference you and Blueshoe display is frightening. People like you are literally how authoritarians come to power.

“It’s the law.”

“It’s a curfew.”

No need to question whether the actions are right or just then. No need to examine whether the power the authorities have is being exerted appropriately.

Just blindly comply as the tear down societal norms like shooting at citizens generally being a no-no.

Parts of the city are burning. There is a considerable amount of danger at large. People are being hurt. Property, (most of it the property of the taxpayers ie public buildings police vehicles ambulances etc)is being destroyed.
Vast majority of citizens aren’t involved and don’t wish to be involved. Authorities decide that for the safety of the citizens (or do you think there’s an alterior motive and if you did can you verbalize it please) that unless you have an emergency you need to stay within your home overnight.
To most grown up mature people this is a perfectly sensible and really very easy to follow through on idea.Just for a couple of nights, if you stay at home, then there’s no chance of you getting arrested/setting yourself on fire while throwing a Molotov cocktail/cracking someone else’s head open/having your own head cracked open or accidentally stealing a cheesecake/iPhone/70”tv/LV handbag.
To people like yourself it’s an outrageous attack on your civil liberties. Other citizens civil liberties, the liberty to be safe, not to have property stolen or damaged etc doesn’t seem to be important. Why is this?

Sonics2k

Blueshoe wrote: »

https://youtu.be/ZlU8OOUMq94
Covers all sides

Listen, it's very simple. The rioters out there attacking the cops without cause and looting are absolute scum.

The police out there attacking and shooting at citizens who are doing no wrong are scum.

Why are you so okay with the police attacking people, but not random people on the street?

Camera crews and reporters are being shot at by the cops.

Lundstram

Lundstram wrote: »

Arrest them and take a few cops off the streets in the process? They're being shot by paintballs not AK47 rounds. Quit the dramatics.

An identified journalist was blinded in one eye in Minnesota.... But sure just paintball. You seem to be justifying a lot...

boardise

Deleted User wrote: »

No point really, but the only black guest of three guests was saying he was doing ok..two white guests were going on about 400 years of oppression of black people..

That sounds about right -white folk always emoting about their atavistic guilt trip which they wear like a badge of dishonour.

Blueshoe

Sonics2k wrote: »

Listen, it's very simple. The rioters out there attacking the cops without cause and looting are absolute scum.

The police out there attacking and shooting at citizens who are doing no wrong are scum.

Why are you so okay with the police attacking people, but not random people on the street?

Camera crews and reporters are being shot at by the cops.

Did you watch the clip