George Floyd dies after police knelt on his neck (MOD NOTE IN POST #1)

Nozebleed

walshb wrote: »

Is there some video footage that does not show how George ended up on the ground? Or is there a complete video that shows everything...every second?

Will it be argued by the cops that they had to bring him flat down to the ground to restrain him?

i was under the impression that at the time of his death "George"..was not in handcuffs. he was being restrained by the 4 cops on the ground. earlier in the video he had been handcuffed but at some point they were removed and he had to be wrestled to the ground. i believe the individual police cam footage which has yet to be released will show some kind of altercation..

standardg60

Deleted User wrote: »

By "Jesus-like" do you mean overly preachy, ironically intolerant and usually agreed with by zealots who want to be seen to do good rather than actually do good?

No just the prophecy bit.

Like i said.

statesaver

All done for the memory of George Floyd RIP

https://twitter.com/BarrettWilson6/status/1267116974485770241

walshb

Separate to George Floyd:

Question here. If certain minorities are committing far more crime than others per number of population, what are the cops to do?

What is the answer to all this? There will never be a perfect people, society, system...

What do people want when this is over? No more deaths from cops? That just won’t happen..

Is it going to be a case now where any perceived cop injustice is met with a right to protest, and riot and loot?

Honest thoughts, just. Nobody is condoning cops killing and mistreating, but at times, there are fine lines. Cops dealing with really dangerous snd violent people..

Cody montana

Danzy wrote: »

Yes.

The cop was out of line, at the least he should lose his job.

He was clearly close to death at the end of the video.

Nozebleed

thats racism right there.

standardg60

standardg60 wrote: »

No just the prophecy bit.

Like i said.

What made it Jesus like then? Perhaps you should have just said prophecy if nothing about it was Jesus like.

Guy:Incognito

2u2me wrote: »

Honestly I have no idea what you're talking about. Could you be more specific, perhaps provide an example. I was talking about my experiences, are you saying I come in and post something and then don't return? That's just not true.

Take any of the examples in this thread of people dropping in to ask an obvious question or bring something in like its new information, all of which is to cast doubt on Floyds character and put as much blame on him as possible.

2u2me

walshb wrote: »

Question here. If certain minorities are committing far more crime than others per number of population, what are the cops to do?

What is the answer to all this? There will never be a perfect people, society, system...

What do people want when this is over? No more deaths from cops? That just won’t happen..

Is it going to be a case now where any perceived cop injustice is met with a right to protest, and riot and loot?

When I hear the likes of CNN saying we should talk more and listen more these are the types of questions we should be talking about.

Also it's impossible to judge if things are going well or badly if you judge using poor metrics. You need to have a clear and defined goal in mind.

ThewhiteJesus

statesaver wrote: »

All done for the memory of George Floyd RIP

https://twitter.com/BarrettWilson6/status/1267116974485770241

Absolute scum, the cops need to show force now

2u2me

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Take any of the examples in this thread of people dropping in to ask an obvious question or bring something in like its new information, all of which is to cast doubt on Floyds character and put as much blame on him as possible.

Perhaps it's people being human thinking they have a new relevation that they can share. Certainly that's how I feel sometimes. Just because that can annoy you doesn't mean people should be mean or unfair with their argument.

I find the best way is to reason. But that's me. It brings a lot of hate on me, you see a new poster with 5 posters has 4 unfairly critical of me.

At least they don't pop up just to attack you guys.

nervous_twitch

Rjd2 wrote: »

Peaceful protests no matter if you disagree with them are the bedrock of a normal soceity. The protesters in Ireland today what harm did they cause, no violence, aggression and even respected social distancing, and heck even if you disagreed with them pretty easy to avoid as their wasn't that many of them.

Harmless.

That was my point. Maybe the sarcasm was lost. I fully support them, I do not disagree and they are essential. It was just that poster I was replying to.

I admire anyone who takes the time to bring attention to injustice. It could be me you anyone in the future; it mighnt be in our country now but it could soon follow unless we are clear about what what we will not accept. We havent got some of the same problems as the states, no, but if it did happen I would like to know that people would help in whatever way they can.

Guy:Incognito

walshb wrote: »

Question here. If certain minorities are committing far more crime than others per number of population, what are the cops to do?.

Well, if you think treating all Black people violently when interacting with them because black people proportionately commit more crime is ok in your view, then you are a racist and shouldn't be a cop.

Spanish Eyes

America is fkd. No way out now.

I know there are many who can shield themselves from this by living in the suburbs. But the anger is right there anyway outside that bubble.

What a disaster of a country with a moron in charge also. Perfect storm now.

Odhinn

walshb wrote: »

Separate to George Floyd:

Question here. If certain minorities are committing far more crime than others per number of population, what are the cops to do?

What is the answer to all this? There will never be a perfect people, society, system...

What do people want when this is over? No more deaths from cops? That just won’t happen..

Is it going to be a case now where any perceived cop injustice is met with a right to protest, and riot and loot?

Honest thoughts, just. Nobody is condoning cops killing and mistreating, but at times, there are fine lines. Cops dealing with really dangerous snd violent people..

They werent dealing with that here.

Nozebleed

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well, if you think treating all Black people violently when interacting with them because black people proportionately commit more crime is ok in your view, then you are a racist and shouldn't be a cop.

what does the term white privilege mean to you?

Stateofyou

walshb wrote: »

Separate to George Floyd:

Question here. If certain minorities are committing far more crime than others per number of population, what are the cops to do?

What is the answer to all this? There will never be a perfect people, society, system...

What do people want when this is over? No more deaths from cops? That just won’t happen..

Is it going to be a case now where any perceived cop injustice is met with a right to protest, and riot and loot?

Honest thoughts, just. Nobody is condoning cops killing and mistreating, but at times, there fine lines. Cops dealing with really dangerous snd violent people..

How about proper police training? Many people of colour have died at the hands of trigger happy police while doing perfectly mundane things in their lives (like playing video games with their nephew or reading a book in their car, etc etc) and they weren't criminals. What does that and the reality of systemic racism, oppression and police brutality in their society have to do with (inaccurate reporting of) crime rates? The line isn't that fine. There are plenty of good police officers who don't abuse their power and position and aren't racist. But the system is stacked against people. In certain situations they actually are required to use force that is excessive. Bad cops who do bad things are protected due to a very vague wording of the law that's been interpreted a certain way and precedent set. That's why it's so difficult to hold them accountable when they've done wrong. The system needs an overhaul.

alchemist33

ThewhiteJesus wrote: »

Absolute scum, the cops need to show force now

As long as they use it on the right people, like those in the video, I'm all for it.

Manic Moran

I think this was a matter of badge superiority and bad training.

I'm inclined to agree. For example, apparently such pressure to the neck is an approved method of restraint by policy. I see few people inquiring why this is so, and if there are any guidelines in the policy as to when it is appropriate to do so. The initial thought is to investigate this as a policy and advocate for its change as appropriate.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

People standing at their own front doors are breaking curfew apparently and deserve to be shot at with the paint.

By the definition of the curfew, yes, they were. As for the technique, it seems a rather efficient process. I mean, the cops could have walked up and thrown them back inside, or arrested them for curfew violation, or engaged in a five-minute civil discourse about the merits of the instruction, but the curfew was apparently enforced quickly, without injury or arrest, and the police went on their way.

Danzy

Retr0gamer wrote: »

It's not about one man. It's about continued police harassment and brutality against minorities. This one case has juts brought it to the fore. A man lost his life because he used a forged note. He might not have been aware he used a forged note. More than likely he lost his life for a very minor offense. Even before he was killed his treatment was far beyond what the crime warranted. If he was white this wouldn't have happened.

Now imagine living in america being black or a minority and knowing if you have a minor misdemeanor that may not be your fault and could have your life at risk. That's what those people have to live with every day. The harassment and fear. It's not just one case. It's an entire system they are protesting against.

Innocents who die at the hands of the police in the US are reflective of population share.

Top many die the police there can be nuts but the death rate does not show any targeting.

The simple fact is that their is a serious problem with criminality in the African American community. It's not small but a massive over representation and a mass killer of black men, the leading cause of death for African American males under 65 is murder ffs.

That's cultural, look at that rapper who gave an emotive speech in Atlanta, from a police family but his name is Killer Mike. Look at the pathetic gangster rap scene, the scale of gang membership. No doubt there is legacy issues but they aren't unique in that.

Parts of American cities like Baltimore, Philly, Chicago ETC have murder rates only seen in low level civil wars.

Look at the West African demographic in America, one of the fastest growing income groups, massively over represente on Wall St. Fair ducks to them.

The police need serious reform there, no doubt but people have to take responsibility as well.

Pauliedragon

Why are we so obsessed with America? Cops in several countrys kill people on a daily basis yet we only give a **** if it happens over there. The police in Israel shot and killed a guy today so where is the outrage for that? Why cant we just focus on our own country for now and let them worry about themselves.

Stateofyou

Manic Moran wrote: »

I'm inclined to agree. For example, apparently such pressure to the neck is an approved method of restraint by policy. I see few people inquiring why this is so, and if there are any guidelines in the policy as to when it is appropriate to do so. The initial thought is to investigate this as a policy and advocate for its change as appropriate.



By the definition of the curfew, yes, they were. As for the technique, it seems a rather efficient process. I mean, the cops could have walked up and thrown them back inside, or arrested them for curfew violation, or engaged in a five-minute civil discourse about the merits of the instruction, but the curfew was apparently resolved quickly, without injury or arrest, and the police went on their way.

I've read otherwise. I watched an interview of a retired officer who said that they are trained to put the kneecap on the top of the shoulder/spine and balance on the balls and toes of their feet so that they can feel for movement. According to him what the cop done goes against training and was not legal and he reckons he's done for.

walshb

I am all for answers here.

But you cannot develop a “perfect” system. Because people are not perfect, and will always challenge and disagree

The real issue now is that what is going to happen every time an injustice, or perceived injustice visits a person, persons or minority group?

The cops still have to do their jobs. And in the U.S., with such diversity, this means that the job, at times needs real firmness due to the situations cops find themselves in.

I do think this race relation pushing is being dangerously exaggerated. This is not the fooking 1950s snd 1960s. But there is a real narrative being pushed to create a racial division, that is not near as bad as it’s being made out, and not near as bad as 50 and 60 years ago..

splinter65

Lundstram wrote: »

Had a wry smile on Twitter there reading a post of a woman complaining that Apple had locked the iPhone she looted and snapped her picture and gps location with a message reading the authorities have been notified.

That’s more of it of course. Was it racism or the patriarchy she blamed or both?

Chiparus

walshb wrote: »

Separate to George Floyd:

Question here. If certain minorities are committing far more crime than others per number of population, what are the cops to do?

What is the answer to all this? There will never be a perfect people, society, system...

What do people want when this is over? No more deaths from cops? That just won’t happen..

Is it going to be a case now where any perceived cop injustice is met with a right to protest, and riot and loot?

Honest thoughts, just. Nobody is condoning cops killing and mistreating, but at times, there are fine lines. Cops dealing with really dangerous snd violent people..

Is the ethnic minority commiting more crimes per capita when cohorted by poverty level?

Homelander

Danzy wrote: »

That he is dead does not mean the evidence cannot come forward.

Ultimately George put himself in that situation, the cop and his rough handling put him up for trial.

Facts and impartial evidence that's relevant to an incident always have a place in any rational discussion.

Pointing that out isn't some endorsement of what happened, or slight against George Floyd.

Now, even if results came out and said the cause of death was nothing do do whatsoever with the knee of Derek Chauvin.

That would still be irrelevant to the obvious necessity for him to be fired from law enforcement permanently and charged, because what he did was completely unacceptable for any member of a police force - as was the behavior of his colleagues.

We should have the results of an independent autopsy shortly that will be made public. I'm awaiting the facts. More people should do the same.

RE: the preliminary autopsy. Saying his death was a result of police detention, existing conditions and intoxicants doesn't mean it was the knee. They found otherwise.

It could, and most likely means, the preliminary autopsy found that it was the duress of the situation, combined with the existing conditions, that contributed. For example, he may have had a heart attack.

And because I probably have to spell it out, that's not for a second any endorsement of the behavior of Derek Chauvin, or an attempt to "smear" George Floyd.

The former has zero excuse for his behavior, the latter had absolutely no valid reason to be treated like that and is 100% a victim in that case.

But medical experts have, in their preliminary findings, found it was not lack of oxygen that killed him. I'm not a doctor or any sort of medical expert so pending an independent autopsy I just have to keep it in mind and see what the final result is.

Obviously it's still a case where his completely unreasonable and disproportionate detention by Derek Chauvin can likely be held 100% responsible for bringing on his death, so regardless of what killed him, Derek Chauvin will likely still remain entirely responsible for being the catalyst.

2u2me

Stateofyou wrote: »

I've read otherwise. I watched an interview of a retired officer who said that they are trained to put the kneecap on the top of the shoulder/spine and balance on the balls and toes of their feet so that they can feel for movement. According to him what the cop done goes against training and was not legal and he reckons he's done for.

You could both be right. Your story tells of a retired officer, perhaps the techniques have been updated.

MeMen2_MoRi_

https://v.redd.it/v755hsbtlt151

Guy:Incognito

Manic Moran wrote: »

By the definition of the curfew, yes, they were. As for the technique, it seems a rather efficient process. I mean, the cops could have walked up and thrown them back inside, or arrested them for curfew violation, or engaged in a five-minute civil discourse about the merits of the instruction, but the curfew was apparently resolved quickly, without injury or arrest, and the police went on their way.

This here is whats wrong with american law enforcement.

Honestly, this is people standing at their own from door in the suburbs and army folk are marching down their road behind a humvee shooting paint rounds at them for opening their doors. They are on their own property, this isnt people out protesting in the city centre during a curfew.

What are they hoping to achieve with it? It certainly wont be respect from people anyway. Best case scenario, the people dont hate them anymore than they already do.

Suppose it gives a good indication for people what its like to have the military come to your country and go door to door "knocking". Might bring the realities home to them.

This all sprang from yet another case of the police killing someone

ThewhiteJesus

alchemist33 wrote: »

As long as they use it on the right people, like those in the video, I'm all for it.

Anyone rioting or looting should be dealt with in a quick and aggressive manner, it needs to be stopped now and would of been but for the usual race card thrown in