Told I have to send faulty laptop to manufacturer myself?

shaveAbullock

It's a bit of a misconception.
That law merely states that someone can attempt to take action against a seller up to 2 years from sale date.
It does not mean all goods have a 2 year warranty.

selephonic

shaveAbullock wrote: »

It's a bit of a misconception.
That law merely states that someone can attempt to take action against a seller up to 2 years from sale date.
It does not mean all goods have a 2 year warranty.

Ah, fair enough, I stand corrected. I see its detailed a bit further here:

https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/ireland/index_en.htm

I've referred to the 2 year thing with manufacturers before and received a repair/replacement on electronics. I would usually contact the manufacturer directly as I find they're more concerned about their customers/reputation.

Mark Hamill

shaveAbullock wrote: »

It's a bit of a misconception.
That law merely states that someone can attempt to take action against a seller up to 2 years from sale date.
It does not mean all goods have a 2 year warranty.

That's not what selephonics link says:

Free of charge, 2-year guarantee for all goods

You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection.

If goods you bought anywhere in the EU turn out to be faulty or do not look or work as advertised, the seller must repair or replace them free of charge or give you a price reduction or a full refund.

Do you have something that says otherwise?

whiterebel

First line: "Ireland has not introduced any particular provision regarding the duration of the legal guarantee. Instead, a 6 year limitation period applies, during which consumers can exercise their rights, both for new and second-hand goods"

Mark Hamill

whiterebel wrote: »

First line: "Ireland has not introduced any particular provision regarding the duration of the legal guarantee. Instead, a 6 year limitation period applies, during which consumers can exercise their rights, both for new and second-hand goods"

That is on top of the 2 year European guarantee, not instead of it.
To repeat what I quote:
"You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection."

In Ireland you have a minimum of 2 years guarantee, but Irish law extends that up to 6 years to at least argue a claim if something fails.

whiterebel

Mark Hamill wrote: »

That is on top of the 2 year European guarantee, not instead of it.
To repeat what I quote:
"You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection."

In Ireland you have a minimum of 2 years guarantee, but Irish law extends that up to 6 years to at least argue a claim if something fails.

No, because we deemed our consumer protection stronger than that offered by the EU Directive. Its not an either/or that's why they have a specific part for Ireland, as do the likes of Apple on their website.

runawaybishop

Mark Hamill wrote: »

That is on top of the 2 year European guarantee, not instead of it.
To repeat what I quote:
"You always have the right to a minimum 2-year guarantee at no cost, regardless of whether you bought your goods online, in a shop or by mail order.

This 2-year guarantee is your minimum right, however national rules in your country may give you extra protection."

In Ireland you have a minimum of 2 years guarantee, but Irish law extends that up to 6 years to at least argue a claim if something fails.

No. We did not enact that law.

Mark Hamill

whiterebel wrote: »

No, because we deemed our consumer protection stronger than that offered by the EU Directive. Its not an either/or that's why they have a specific part for Ireland, as do the likes of Apple on their website.

I never said it's an either/or.
They have a specific part for every country, bar Liechtenstein, so you can see what extra guarantees you have in those countries. In Ireland, that extra guarantee goes up to 6 years.

And Apple can say what they like on their website about their warranty, in Ireland EU law overrides it.

runawaybishop wrote: »

No. We did not enact that law.

We did not have to enact it, it's an EU wide law already enacted by the EU, which automatically applies to us as we are part of the EU. Our specific laws extend your opportunity to make a claim to 6 years.

runawaybishop

Mark Hamill wrote: »

I never said it's an either/or.
They have a specific part for every country, bar Liechtenstein, so you can see what extra guarantees you have in those countries. In Ireland, that extra guarantee goes up to 6 years.

And Apple can say what they like on their website about their warranty, in Ireland EU law overrides it.


We did not have to enact it, it's an EU wide law already enacted by the EU, which automatically applies to us as we are part of the EU. Our specific laws extend your opportunity to make a claim to 6 years.

No, this is wrong. There is no 2 year guarantee on goods in Ireland as our existing laws are stronger than that so we did not enact it.

This pops up every few months, it's tedious. Go show in our statue books exactly were the 2 year guarantee is.

28064212

Mark Hamill wrote: »

We did not have to enact it, it's an EU wide law already enacted by the EU, which automatically applies to us as we are part of the EU. Our specific laws extend your opportunity to make a claim to 6 years.

An EU directive is not a law. It requires members to achieve a particular result via their own laws. The law that applies in court is the members' laws.

An EU regulation is a directly applicable law.

whiterebel

28064212 wrote: »

An EU directive is not a law. It requires members to achieve a particular result via their own laws. The law that applies in court is the members' laws.

An EU regulation is a directly applicable law.

This is correct.

Mark Hamill

runawaybishop wrote: »

No, this is wrong. There is no 2 year guarantee on goods in Ireland as our existing laws are stronger than that so we did not enact it.

This pops up every few months, it's tedious. Go show in our statue books exactly were the 2 year guarantee is.

The 2 years is included in our existing laws which mention 6 years. We already had laws that said up to 6 years, so we did not need to do anything when the EU brought in the directive for a minimum of 2.

28064212 wrote: »

An EU directive is not a law. It requires members to achieve a particular result via their own laws. The law that applies in court is the members' laws.

An EU regulation is a directly applicable law.

Yes, but in this case, what is the difference? The EU directive is that EU states give minimum of 2 years guarantee. Ireland already gives more than 2 years, so we did not need to amend or add anything to legislature.
For the purposes of this discussion, and particularly shaveAbullock's post where they said:

shaveAbullock wrote: »

It's over 1 year old. It's covered under law for 12 months

the law is that it (the OPs laptop) is covered for a minimum of 2 years (with up to 6 years possible in Ireland, if they can argue it).

28064212

Mark Hamill wrote: »

Yes, but in this case, what is the difference? The EU directive is that EU states give minimum of 2 years guarantee. Ireland already gives more than 2 years, so we did not need to amend or add anything to legislature.

Where does Ireland give more than 2 years guarantee? The 6 years is purely a limit on the timeline for claiming. There is no minimum guarantee in Irish legislation

runawaybishop

Mark Hamill wrote: »

The 2 years is included in our existing laws which mention 6 years. We already had laws that said up to 6 years, so we did not need to do anything when the EU brought in the directive for a minimum of 2.


Yes, but in this case, what is the difference? The EU directive is that EU states give minimum of 2 years guarantee. Ireland already gives more than 2 years, so we did not need to amend or add anything to legislature.
For the purposes of this discussion, and particularly shaveAbullock's post where they said:

the law is that it (the OPs laptop) is covered for a minimum of 2 years (with up to 6 years possible in Ireland, if they can argue it).

This is all wrong, you have up to 6 years to claim. Goods must be of merchantable quality, that does not mean a 1 euro pair of headphones has a 2 year guarantee.

The EU law you keep mentioning does not apply in Ireland.

L1011

Legal Discussion forum for that debate please - no more arguments about 2 vs 6.

Drodan

My previous job for 2.5 years was dealing with these exact type of complaints, few thoughts on what have been posted and unfortunately may not be too popular.

There is a 2 year warranty with the manufacturer for goods purchased within the EU (for most products but there can be exceptions, mostly if the seller/manufacturer have a built in extended warranty which is adhoc per company and not standardized). What PC World are doing is indeed correct. You'd have a guarantee with them for particular period, usually 30 days, but as they are an authorised retailer once those 30 days are up they are correct to advise customer to contact the manufacturer directly. You would have to ship the product to the manufacturer yourself with shipping costs incurred by yourself which may only be refundable if a manufacturing flaw is present and a refund is offered (which does not have to be cash etc and can be "store credit".

The shop are also correct in saying they cannot deal with the manufacturer directly for the customer as their responsibility within the sales contract is expired. Even if somehow they do agree to act as a 3rd party go between for the manufacturer and the customer, which they will not I cannot stress that enough, they would be assuming responsibility for the product during the shipping and handling of the product from there on out. No company would take on that responsibility.

Basically OP, you'll have to go collect the product, contact the manufacturer and go through their 3rd party retailer flawed product procedure. They have to engage with you on it, but it is up to you to act on it. Being a frontline hospital worker myself now I understand not wanting to make trips to shops etc, but you have no choice to be honest, if you want your product assessed and repaired, you have to follow the rules in place. My main advise is that when shipping to the manufacturer to use a trackable/traceable courier/postal service on the off chance the parcel goes missing during shipping, that way you'll at the very least have some comeback with whatever shipping method you use, as unlikely as it can be.

mk7r

Drodan wrote: »

My previous job for 2.5 years was dealing with these exact type of complaints, few thoughts on what have been posted and unfortunately may not be too popular.

There is a 2 year warranty with the manufacturer for goods purchased within the EU (for most products but there can be exceptions, mostly if the seller/manufacturer have a built in extended warranty which is adhoc per company and not standardized). What PC World are doing is indeed correct. You'd have a guarantee with them for particular period, usually 30 days, but as they are an authorised retailer once those 30 days are up they are correct to advise customer to contact the manufacturer directly. You would have to ship the product to the manufacturer yourself with shipping costs incurred by yourself which may only be refundable if a manufacturing flaw is present and a refund is offered (which does not have to be cash etc and can be "store credit".

The shop are also correct in saying they cannot deal with the manufacturer directly for the customer as their responsibility within the sales contract is expired. Even if somehow they do agree to act as a 3rd party go between for the manufacturer and the customer, which they will not I cannot stress that enough, they would be assuming responsibility for the product during the shipping and handling of the product from there on out. No company would take on that responsibility.

Basically OP, you'll have to go collect the product, contact the manufacturer and go through their 3rd party retailer flawed product procedure. They have to engage with you on it, but it is up to you to act on it. Being a frontline hospital worker myself now I understand not wanting to make trips to shops etc, but you have no choice to be honest, if you want your product assessed and repaired, you have to follow the rules in place. My main advise is that when shipping to the manufacturer to use a trackable/traceable courier/postal service on the off chance the parcel goes missing during shipping, that way you'll at the very least have some comeback with whatever shipping method you use, as unlikely as it can be.

Almost none of that post is accurate. The EU thing is true but not in Ireland, we have not enacted it as our consumer protection is stronger. They DO have to deal with you and can't fob you off to the manufacturer, this nonsense about 30 days is just that..... Also you cannot be out of pocket for shipping etc, store credit wont cut it so they can use prepay labels or reimburse you directly.
However you may find it easier and less stressful to go to the manufacturer yourself if they are not playing ball.

L1011

Drodan wrote: »

My previous job for 2.5 years was dealing with these exact type of complaints, few thoughts on what have been posted and unfortunately may not be too popular.

There is a 2 year warranty with the manufacturer for goods purchased within the EU (for most products but there can be exceptions, mostly if the seller/manufacturer have a built in extended warranty which is adhoc per company and not standardized). What PC World are doing is indeed correct. You'd have a guarantee with them for particular period, usually 30 days, but as they are an authorised retailer once those 30 days are up they are correct to advise customer to contact the manufacturer directly. You would have to ship the product to the manufacturer yourself with shipping costs incurred by yourself which may only be refundable if a manufacturing flaw is present and a refund is offered (which does not have to be cash etc and can be "store credit".

The shop are also correct in saying they cannot deal with the manufacturer directly for the customer as their responsibility within the sales contract is expired. Even if somehow they do agree to act as a 3rd party go between for the manufacturer and the customer, which they will not I cannot stress that enough, they would be assuming responsibility for the product during the shipping and handling of the product from there on out. No company would take on that responsibility.

Basically OP, you'll have to go collect the product, contact the manufacturer and go through their 3rd party retailer flawed product procedure. They have to engage with you on it, but it is up to you to act on it. Being a frontline hospital worker myself now I understand not wanting to make trips to shops etc, but you have no choice to be honest, if you want your product assessed and repaired, you have to follow the rules in place. My main advise is that when shipping to the manufacturer to use a trackable/traceable courier/postal service on the off chance the parcel goes missing during shipping, that way you'll at the very least have some comeback with whatever shipping method you use, as unlikely as it can be.

Your "thoughts" are wildly inaccurate and look like the contents of a customer service training manual from another country

You were wildly breaching consumers rights if you actually enforced this

28064212

mk7r wrote: »

Almost none of that post is accurate. The EU thing is true

Even that part's not correct, because they said it's with the manufacturer. It's the retailer who has to provide the legal guarantee.

Ten Pin

What PC World are doing is indeed correct. You'd have a guarantee with them for particular period, usually 30 days, but as they are an authorised retailer once those 30 days are up they are correct to advise customer to contact the manufacturer directly. You would have to ship the product to the manufacturer yourself with shipping costs incurred by yourself which may only be refundable if a manufacturing flaw is present and a refund is offered (which does not have to be cash etc and can be "store credit".

This reads more like a change of mind policy but it's unsurprising that some retailers may use it as a tactic to put people off exercising their statutory rights.

The subject of this thread is goods that have developed a fault.

Metroid diorteM

Great to see the attention on this shoddy customer care.

Kudos to everyone in the thread, especially the op.

Too many tech enthusiasts lie down and just give up which leads to loss of rights for all of us.

GrumpyMe

Metroid diorteM wrote: »

Great to see the attention on this shoddy customer care.

Kudos to everyone in the thread, especially the op.

Too many tech enthusiasts lie down and just give up which leads to loss of rights for all of us.

Our rights are set in legislation/directives whether we use them or not.

silver2020

The post by drodan above shows how badly trained staff are in relation to the customer's rights.

I know the poster is good in their intentions, but whoever gave the poster that information should be retrained into the very basics of the sale of goods act.

It also shows that the customer service staff are well meaning and should not be blamed as its the appalling training and wrong information by so called managers who give them their guidelines.

I would guess drodan worked with PC world or some other UK multiple - it smacks of their ambivalence to customer service

Drodan

silver2020 wrote: »

The post by drodan above shows how badly trained staff are in relation to the customer's rights.

I know the poster is good in their intentions, but whoever gave the poster that information should be retrained into the very basics of the sale of goods act.

It also shows that the customer service staff are well meaning and should not be blamed as its the appalling training and wrong information by so called managers who give them their guidelines.

I would guess drodan worked with PC world or some other UK multiple - it smacks of their ambivalence to customer service

Nope didnt work for PC World, was one of the largest companies going in the worls and was management, where i actually cared for customers i encounterd and ensured the same from my staff, but completely away from the actually point of the OP.

Guildlines are set out by company legal teams, not customer service managers. The severe lack of contract law knowledge is unbelievable.

Anyway this is completely getting away from the OPs post. To you OP, i hope all works out as easily as possible and you get a happy resolution out of it

L1011

Drodan wrote: »

The severe lack of contract law knowledge is unbelievable.

Yes - yours!

Please make yourself familiar with the Sale of Goods and Supply of Services Act, 1980 (as amended) rather than make vague references to "contract law". Basically every single point of your post was wrong when dealing with Irish law.

You are also repeatedly confusing warranty, guarantee and consumer rights throughout your claim.

Bikerman2019

Drodan wrote: »

My previous job for 2.5 years was dealing with these exact type of complaints, few thoughts on what have been posted and unfortunately may not be too popular.

There is a 2 year warranty with the manufacturer for goods purchased within the EU (for most products but there can be exceptions, mostly if the seller/manufacturer have a built in extended warranty which is adhoc per company and not standardized). What PC World are doing is indeed correct. You'd have a guarantee with them for particular period, usually 30 days, but as they are an authorised retailer once those 30 days are up they are correct to advise customer to contact the manufacturer directly. You would have to ship the product to the manufacturer yourself with shipping costs incurred by yourself which may only be refundable if a manufacturing flaw is present and a refund is offered (which does not have to be cash etc and can be "store credit".

The shop are also correct in saying they cannot deal with the manufacturer directly for the customer as their responsibility within the sales contract is expired. Even if somehow they do agree to act as a 3rd party go between for the manufacturer and the customer, which they will not I cannot stress that enough, they would be assuming responsibility for the product during the shipping and handling of the product from there on out. No company would take on that responsibility.

Basically OP, you'll have to go collect the product, contact the manufacturer and go through their 3rd party retailer flawed product procedure. They have to engage with you on it, but it is up to you to act on it. Being a frontline hospital worker myself now I understand not wanting to make trips to shops etc, but you have no choice to be honest, if you want your product assessed and repaired, you have to follow the rules in place. My main advise is that when shipping to the manufacturer to use a trackable/traceable courier/postal service on the off chance the parcel goes missing during shipping, that way you'll at the very least have some comeback with whatever shipping method you use, as unlikely as it can be.

Absolute rubbish! This is retailer talk.


The consumer can rely upon the sale of goods act in Ireland. This puts the onus on the retailer. It is stronger than any warranty you can get.


Loads of info here on this site about it already.

Fiery mutant

I’ve been in retail for the last 12 years running busy multi million euro stores, and listening to drodan, is indeed like hearing some of my old managers trying to read out the company policy manual.

But it is not what is stipulated in Irish law. OP your contract of sale is with the retailer, and therefore it is up to the retailer to provide redress to you. Make yourself aware of what your rights actually are, and approach them in a calm and professional manner. If they fail to help you in store, I would advise recommending in writing that unless they fail to provide you the assistance required of them, then you will be proceeding to small claims court.

Your rights under Irish law are well protected, make yourself aware of them and when necessary, educate others.