Need some advice on my son

GarIT

beauf wrote: »

While I'm all for doing things right, especially with tax and Prsi going forward, and people undervalue the value of family working for them. When they should pay them more. But I think there is case of winning the battle and losing the war here.

He would be way under using any tax credits up so it would just be PRSI.


I get what you are saying but I just don't think it's a good example or lesson to be learning when the OP says they are trying to teach the child something.

Lefty Bicek

GarIT wrote: »

I think you are completely wrong. He doens't need to be prepared for adulthood almost 10 years in adcance at only 14. And demanding he break the law isn't any sort of good preparation for adulthood.

You're completely losing the plot.

He's FOUR years from being considered an adult.

At eighteen he can vote, stand for election, drink, drive, get married.

Stepping Stone

beauf wrote: »

You could make that point without trawling someones past history.

School work and Sports doesn't prepare people for work.

If it did people wouldn't do work placements, and people wouldn't look for work experience desperately on CV

I was curious about how successful the OP was since they were so keen to get their 14 year old son out, just like them. I got my answer. You may not like it because I disagree with you about forcing him into a job that he doesn’t want, but there you go.

As for mental health issues, I would say that the OP seems to completely lack self awareness or empathy. His own issues should help him to frame what exactly he is doing and how it’s helping his son.

beauf

GarIT wrote: »

People don't look for work experience in a warehouse.

What you're implying is there is no value in such work experience. I would very much disagree.

More so I'd say its very obvious when people have no such experience and not in a good way.

noodler

Stepping Stone wrote: »

I was curious about how successful the OP was since they were so keen to get their 14 year old son out, just like them. I got my answer. You may not like it because I disagree with you about forcing him into a job that he doesn’t want, but there you go.

As for mental health issues, I would say that the OP seems to completely lack self awareness or empathy. His own issues should help him to frame what exactly he is doing and how it’s helping his son.

Christ.

What a nasty post.

beauf

Stepping Stone wrote: »

I was curious about how successful the OP was since they were so keen to get their 14 year old son out, just like them. I got my answer. You may not like it because I disagree with you about forcing him into a job that he doesn’t want, but there you go.

As for mental health issues, I would say that the OP seems to completely lack self awareness or empathy. His own issues should help him to frame what exactly he is doing and how it’s helping his son.

I would say thats digging the hole deeper.

Where did I say something about forcing someone into a job.

oyvey

noodler wrote: »

Christ.

What a nasty post.

I don't necessarily agree with Stepping Stone either, but there's nothing nasty in that post. If people want to put their personal info out on the internet for everyone to read then it's fair game for discussion.

c.p.w.g.w

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That’s a very mature thing. To allow your fourteen year old who is going through puberty make a mess of things that could cause him hassle for years. So you can prove a point!

Messing up at a part time job as a 14 year old Isn't going to ruin his life...Mistakes need to be experienced, that's how we learn...too many people enter adulthood having had a fairly easy ride, then adulthood come about with all the baggage and bang anixety/depression as they aren't in anyway prepared to deal with getting knocked on their arse/rejection etc

If my mother hadn't sent me off to England @16 I certainly wouldn't have had steady employment after college, my own house and extensive savings...that sh!t job in England, working stupid hours, stupid commute, no real down time taught me a hell of a lot

Multipass

14 is a tricky age, it’s when mental health issues often start to manifest. I would urge you to rethink the Xbox, it’s a punishment for a little kid. If you want him to start acting like an adult, it would help to treat him like one. And that means respecting his possessions and his space. If you really want to incentivize him to work, cut down on buying him anything in the future - no more luxuries. Work would give him that money, that gives him more control.

FAILSAFE 00

Deleted User wrote: »

What you're saying is that all 14 year olds are identical - you were a lazy sh*t at 14, ergo all 14 year olds are lazy....? :rolleyes:

Let me guess, next post your next post is My precious Johnny isn't lazy.

sure sure lol

KiKi III

If he’s generally a good lad who gets good grades and behaves (as you’ve said) I don’t see why you’re making such a big deal of this.

And if he gets good grades he probably already has the appropriate level of work ethic for his age.

If he was 16 or 17 that’d be different, kids develop a lot in that couple of years.

But based solely on what you’ve told us, I think your son is going to take a very different message than the one you’re trying to give.

In 20 years time when COVID 19 comes up in conversation, is this what you want him to remember?

Lefty Bicek

Multipass wrote: »

14 is a tricky age, it’s when mental health issues often start to manifest. I would urge you to rethink the Xbox, it’s a punishment for a little kid. If you want him to start acting like an adult, it would help to treat him like one. And that means respecting his possessions and his space. If you really want to incentivize him to work, cut down on buying him anything in the future - no more luxuries. Work would give him that money, that gives him more control.

Treat him like an adult, by not buying him possessions. Tricky, that.



Someone will be along in a moment to point out that refusing to buy any more of what you've been buying him all along, is not actually incentivising at all, but... bullying.

c.p.w.g.w

FAILSAFE 00 wrote: »

Let me guess, next post your next post is My precious Johnny isn't lazy.

sure sure lol

There are plenty of lads in their 20's who are lazy...my sister needed someone to help with a bit of pulling and dragging where she worked... could not get a young lad to do a day's work for €100 cash in hand... literally 7 hours work pulling boxes of files from one room to another, and bringing stuff to a shredder room...I took the day's work as she was proper stressed about having to do it herself...easy money and I got lunch & dinner on her company too

freshpopcorn

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Messing up at a part time job as a 14 year old Isn't going to ruin his life...Mistakes need to be experienced, that's how we learn...too many people enter adulthood having had a fairly easy ride, then adulthood come about with all the baggage and bang anixety/depression as they aren't in anyway prepared to deal with getting knocked on their arse/rejection etc

If my mother hadn't sent me off to England @16 I certainly wouldn't have had steady employment after college, my own house and extensive savings...that sh!t job in England, working stupid hours, stupid commute, no real down time taught me a hell of a lot

I didn’t relies at the time it was the kids Godfather it will be grand.
If it was somebody else he could have got a bad name locally was the point I was trying to get across.
I personally don’t believe the OP dealt with the situation correctly and that you need tough love to succeed because most successful people I know didn’t have an experience like yours.

It’s great it worked out for by the way.
We’re never going to agree on the matter.

Lefty Bicek

KiKi III wrote: »

But based solely on what you’ve told us, I think your son is going to take a very different message than the one you’re trying to give.

In 20 years time when COVID 19 comes up in conversation, is this what you want him to remember?

FFS.

In 20 years time, the odds are they'll be laughing about it.

The problem with some people here, is that they have no respect for the young fella.

KiKi III

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

FFS.

In 20 years time, the odds are they'll be laughing about it.

The problem with some people here, is that they have no respect for the young fella.

Respect for the young fella would be letting him make his own decisions.

c.p.w.g.w

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I didn’t relies at the time it was the kids Godfather it will be grand.
If it was somebody else he could have got a bad name locally was the point I was trying to get across.
I personally don’t believe the OP dealt with the situation correctly and that you need tough love to succeed because most successful people I know didn’t have an experience like yours.

It’s great it worked out for by the way.
We’re never going to agree on the matter.

But I needed that experience to knock a bit of reality into me. Because all i cared about was playing my computer games like the OP kid.

Have old childhood friends, the ones who worked with their parents from a young age are all pretty well adjusted, always worked. Most have their own houses, and seem to be doing well

The others who pretty much had everything handed to them, most have literally moved from job to job all low level stuff (2 of the those lads are still living with mammy & daddy at 30, in Limerick/Clare so it's not Dublin house prices)

If I hadn't been sent to England at 16 I'd be in group 2 there, my brother is group 2 but thankfully his GF has knocked some sense into him and his moving into the first group( good job, drinking less & saving for a house)

Multipass

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Treat him like an adult, by not buying him possessions. Tricky, that.



Someone will be along in a moment to point out that refusing to buy any more of what you've been buying him all along, is not actually incentivising at all, but... bullying.

I don’t think they will. And I’m not saying to suddenly refuse to buy anything. It can be a gradual transition, in stages. Not done in a spiteful way, you don’t want that kind of dynamic with your kids. Communication and respect really goes both ways.

GarIT

noodler wrote: »

Christ.

What a nasty post.

You've been ****ing on and calling names enough yourself

GarIT

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

You're completely losing the plot.

He's FOUR years from being considered an adult.

At eighteen he can vote, stand for election, drink, drive, get married.

The majority of people my age I know didn't start working until after college. If the kid was 16 and there wasn't a pandemic I'd be more supportive of the OP although it was still handled poorly.

lozenges

OP I think you're being a bit harsh on your son. There has to be a bit of carrot and stick. Me and my sibling both had games consoles when we were his age. We got pocket money but if we wanted extra eg to buy a game we worked for it (chores for neighbours, babysitting etc). We weren't expected to work to keep ourselves until we had finished the leaving cert.

We both have conventionally very successful careers.
I have taken up gaming again since the lockdown, it's a nice way of spending time.

It sounds from school and sports that he has a good work ethic as others have said. Why not give him an incentive to work if he wants to (eg has to buy his own games) but if he doesn't want to don't force him.

GarIT

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

There are plenty of lads in their 20's who are lazy...my sister needed someone to help with a bit of pulling and dragging where she worked... could not get a young lad to do a day's work for €100 cash in hand... literally 7 hours work pulling boxes of files from one room to another, and bringing stuff to a shredder room...I took the day's work as she was proper stressed about having to do it herself...easy money and I got lunch & dinner on her company too

We were at full employment until this crisis started, everyone is struggling to get staff, it's not a sign of people being lazy.

GarIT

Multipass wrote: »

I don’t think they will. And I’m not saying to suddenly refuse to buy anything. It can be a gradual transition, in stages. Not done in a spiteful way, you don’t want that kind of dynamic with your kids. Communication and respect really goes both ways.

I was given €20 a week and that was it to live off. I got a part time job earning €160+ for a weekends work at 16 because I wanted more money. So that strtegy worked for me.


In 6th year my parents gave me €40 a week to encourage me to stop working and then €100 a week during the college year becasuse they have seen the numerous studies that prove working while studying reduces education performance.

freshpopcorn

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

But I needed that experience to knock a bit of reality into me. Because all i cared about was playing my computer games like the OP kid.

Have old childhood friends, the ones who worked with their parents from a young age are all pretty well adjusted, always worked. Most have their own houses, and seem to be doing well

The others who pretty much had everything handed to them, most have literally moved from job to job all low level stuff (2 of the those lads are still living with mammy & daddy at 30, in Limerick/Clare so it's not Dublin house prices)

If I hadn't been sent to England at 16 I'd be in group 2 there, my brother is group 2 but thankfully his GF has knocked some sense into him and his moving into the first group( good job, drinking less & saving for a house)

This isn’t benefiting the OP. I could also post a big long post also.
We’ve clearly had different experiences in life and with people.
He’s been given plenty of opinions and advice.

c.p.w.g.w

GarIT wrote: »

We were at full employment until this crisis started, everyone is struggling to get staff, it's not a sign of people being lazy.

She offered the work to a neighbor who doesn't work, a few students who live next to her, all too "busy" for a day's work...an easy day's work at that...

GarIT

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

She offered the work to a neighbor who doesn't work, a few students who live next to her, all too "busy" for a day's work...an easy day's work at that...

The government consider full time education to be the same as full time employment for many purposes.


I did a science degree and did over 30 hours in college and then was expected to do another 40 hours studying. Most don't do that amount of studying including myself, but it is in the course hours and what they expect. The students could well have been busy. The neighbour maybe, but you don't know their circumstances

challengemaster

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

But I needed that experience to knock a bit of reality into me. Because all i cared about was playing my computer games like the OP kid.

And all I cared about was playing games when I was a kid too. I wasn’t forced out to work. So I became the best in the country at it, an early iteration of a pro gamer. Something which now has an average wage of >$400k in the states.

And now I’ve a BSc, MSc and PhD. I’m still heavily involved in gaming too.

Just because you needed a kick up the hole, doesn’t mean everyone in that scenario does.

c.p.w.g.w

challengemaster wrote: »

And all I cared about was playing games when I was a kid too. I wasn’t forced out to work. So I became the best in the country at it, an early iteration of a pro gamer. Something which now has an average wage of >$400k in the states.

And now I’ve a BSc, MSc and PhD. I’m still heavily involved in gaming too.

Just because you needed a kick up the hole, doesn’t mean everyone in that scenario does.

Fair play to you...but if the OP's kid can't be without his Xbox for 16 hours a week to work and learn life skills, that's a little worrying

Alrigghtythen

KiKi III wrote: »

Nobody needs to “learn the discipline of employment” at 14. You’d think he’ll become a slack jawed yokel if he’s not.

He can’t see his friends for the most part at the moment. He hasn’t been to school in months.

His whole life has been turned upside down.

And even though he is a good kid who gets good grades without being pushed you’re giving him a hard time.

Is this job within your 5km radius and essential? Of course it’s not.

You mustn't understand the regulations if your talking about work having to be within 5km.

Rubberchikken

Just because he's unwilling to do this at 14 doesn't mean he's work shy. He's young. Give him a chance.

J Mysterio

My view:

You want your child to have your experience. What worked for you may not work for him. Times have changed, as they say.

Were I your kid, I would be outraged also that you agreed work for me, without any input. Is that treating him like an adult, or punishing him?

You didn't like the reaction from him, and now you have further punished him by taking his X Box and his phone. The X Box is one thing, but to take his phone is bordering on the inexcusable.

We are living in unprecedented times. Everyone is shook. Your son will have been using his phone to communicate with his friends, who he has been isolated from. He is already isolated and now you have further isolated him and now you are 'not speaking to him'. That borders on inhumane. This is a traumatic time for everyone, but you are compounding it.

At this time, we all need a little leeway and some understanding. You need to give him his possesions back and cut him some slack. His whole world has been taken from under him.

If he doesnt want to do the job, don't force it on him. He already understands how important this is to you, so the seed is planted, but give him a chance to absorb this without constantly cracking the whip. Give him a break.

KiKi III

Massive contradiction really to think he’s old enough to go out to work but not old enough to make his own decision on the matter.

challengemaster

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Fair play to you...but if the OP's kid can't be without his Xbox for 16 hours a week to work and learn life skills, that's a little worrying

I'm not sure I'd call anyone wanting to enjoy their childhood while they can "worrying". He's got his entire adult life to work and learn life skills, but relatively very little time where he will have zero obligations, responsibilities or bills.

There's been nothing said to indicate the kid can't be without anything for 16 hours - he doesn't want to. If you asked me at 14 I'd have said the same.

Lefty Bicek

KiKi III wrote: »

Respect for the young fella would be letting him make his own decisions.

Respect for him, considering you don't know him, would be not treating him like some little fragile doll who's going to be emotionally scarred for life over some association between Covid 19 and Xbox deprivation.

Or whatever inane analysis prompted you to say -

In 20 years time when COVID 19 comes up in conversation, is this what you want him to remember?

GarIT

challengemaster wrote: »

I'm not sure I'd call anyone wanting to enjoy their childhood while they can "worrying". He's got his entire adult life to work and learn life skills, but relatively very little time where he will have zero obligations, responsibilities or bills.

There's been nothing said to indicate the kid can't be without anything for 16 hours - he doesn't want to. If you asked me at 14 I'd have said the same.

I'd kill for another summer as a teen. I've even considered going into teaching for it.

Lefty Bicek

GarIT wrote: »

The majority of people my age I know didn't start working until after college.

Mollycoddled.

GarIT

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Mollycoddled.

Didn't seem to do them any harm, and they got years of extra enjoyment. You don't rememeber the days you worked or the few quid in the long run but you will remember quality time spent.

beauf

The vitriol in this thread is not encouraging.

Stepping Stone

Stepping Stone wrote: »

OP, I looked at your posting history and I was very struck by one three years ago that you wrote about having anxiety and just not progressing at work for 20yrs.

Surely as someone who suffers from anxiety you should know that someone else taking complete control of your life is a really, really bad thing. Taking away your only connections to the outside world, especially during a time when everything has changed and you’re isolated is a really bad move. It seems that you working at 14 didn’t have a positive impact on your life.

You apparently suffer from anxiety and didn’t progress in your career. Think that it might be because you have poor communication, comprehension and social skills? He’s doing well at school and sport. He’s clearly not lazy. There’s something very wrong about the whole situation and that’s you and your approach.


If you bully him into doing what you want, not what he wants, he’ll learn that that’s the best way to behave towards family. Hopefully you never have to rely on him to have your best interests at heart after this.

I have been reading this thread since the beginning. I have to say I am sickened at posts like the above . What OP wrote 3 years ago has nothing to do with his problem today with his son and NONE of us have the right to make a judgement on this. I would strongly advise OP to just come off this thread now.

I completely agreed with the OP's long post earlier today explaining that he had today at lunchtime spoken to his son to say how proud he was of him!! OP was open to resolution of this issue with his son.
NONE of us know of the relationship between this father and his son. NONE of us are qualified to make these nasty criticisms. "Let him without sin cast the first stone"
Each child is different, each parent is different, none of us parent the same way.

I parented my 2 girls alone after the death of a child and marriage break up. To say the youngest was a nightmare at 14 was an understatement. Trouble with underage drinking, mad parties, boys, police at the door! I wouldn't say my parenting skills were as great as I was dealing with depression alone. But I was doing my best!! And we got through it, both of them turning into wonderful adults and we talk every day. Today that 14 year old brat is a manager in Micosoft in London. What I'm saying is that these things that seem so huge now are not life altering events, and if they are they are probably life altering in a good way!

Going to work now won't kill OP's child. He might actually like it. OP will look back and wondered what he worried about. In a few years OP and his son won't even remember this time, life will throw far more at us than whether we got a job at 14 with our godfather or not.

I myself worked at 13 picking fruit until 15 and from then every Summer in my father's business. I learnt invaluable lessons about responsibility, punctuality, socialising and best of all I LOVED earning my own money. Yes life has changed since then but the principles are still the same!

Do what you think best yourself OP. Nobody knows your child like you do. Talk to him, keep communication going, say sorry to him if you have to about the way you dealt with this, go for a drive with him over the weekend. You will be grand and so will your son. Stop listening to advice from random strangers on the Internet who know nothing at all about you or your son and who "get off" on preaching how bloody great they are.
I've been on Boards.ie for 10 years and I've never felt as shocked as I did reading some of those nasty posts here today.

Good luck and enjoy the Summer.

beauf

Some people (and kids are people) respond to the carrot, others the stick (figuratively) and others to neither.

Sometimes with teenagers need to take a step back and see what works. Sometimes that's treating them as an adult or a child or a teenager.

There is good advice on this thread. Some terrible.

Lundstram

There's a chap who started in my workplace a few weeks ago. He's only 15. He was very shy at first but it's amazing how he's progressed in a few weeks, you can't shut him up now. He's all the time asking questions about how things work etc, which is a great way to learn. He works 3 days a week for 8 hours a day for €7.50 an hour.

Keep pushing him OP, he might even turn out to like it. Even the social aspect is very important for the head.

tayto lover

Rubberchikken wrote: »

Just because he's unwilling to do this at 14 doesn't mean he's work shy. He's young. Give him a chance.

The child needs a hug and an explanation from his father before anything else.

Lefty Bicek

[QUOTE=GarIT;113577614]Didn't seem to do them any harm, and they got years of extra enjoyment. You don't rememeber the days you worked or the few quid in the long run but you will remember quality time spent.[/QUOTE]

Wrong, on various counts.

Still waters

We're making friends out of our children instead of being parents to them, tell him he has to go to work or go without his phone or xbox, 2 days a week won't kill him

Truthvader

Agree 100% with sweetmaggie. The xbox is a useless waste of his time. Think you are doing everything right. Job would be great for him. Moreover trust yourself and trust your own judgment. If you love your kids you will manageThere is no perfect. And dont ask mad people for advice

Wanderer19

challengemaster wrote: »

What the fúck does that have to do with anything? Who's to say anyone hired for any job can actually do it, or will be punctual or respectful? They're still entitled to the minimum wage - that's the law. It's not conditional.

If you can't hold a civil conversation you've already lost the debate ...

Mark Hamill

Deleted User wrote: »

I have been reading this thread since the beginning. I have to say I am sickened at posts like the above . What OP wrote 3 years ago has nothing to do with his problem today with his son and NONE of us have the right to make a judgement on this. I would strongly advise OP to just come off this thread now.

I completely agreed with the OP's long post earlier today explaining that he had today at lunchtime spoken to his son to say how proud he was of him!! OP was open to resolution of this issue with his son.
NONE of us know of the relationship between this father and his son. NONE of us are qualified to make these nasty criticisms. "Let him without sin cast the first stone"
Each child is different, each parent is different, none of us parent the same way.

OP created this thread specifically looking for judgement. Judgement was made, and advice given, based on the fairly scant details given, so a poster looked through the OPs other posts to see if a more complete idea of the OPs mindset could be determined and if that might influence the advice given.
Expecting everyone to just agree with them is as patronising to us as the OP was to his kid.

Deleted User wrote: »

Going to work now won't kill OP's child. He might actually like it. OP will look back and wondered what he worried about. In a few years OP and his son won't even remember this time, life will throw far more at us than whether we got a job at 14 with our godfather or not.

I myself worked at 13 picking fruit until 15 and from then every Summer in my father's business. I learnt invaluable lessons about responsibility, punctuality, socialising and best of all I LOVED earning my own money. Yes life has changed since then but the principles are still the same!

I find it hilarious the amount of posters here who completely support the idea of the kid working as it will give them life lessons, maturity and responsibility and yet are shocked, shocked I tell you, at the idea that maybe the parent needs to learn a life lesson in this case.

Deleted User wrote: »

Stop listening to advice from random strangers on the Internet who know nothing at all about you or your son and who "get off" on preaching how bloody great they are.

This doesn't equally apply to you how?

Mark Hamill

Truthvader wrote: »

The xbox is a useless waste of his time.

Why?

Truthvader wrote: »

Think you are doing everything right. Job would be great for him. Moreover trust yourself and trust your own judgment. If you love your kids you will manage There is no perfect.

Perfect might not be possible, but that doesn't mean there is no room for improvement. I don't get the people who talk about loving their kids and doing what is best for them but who cannot comprehend what is best for their kids might be something that is better than what they had to go through.

Truthvader wrote: »

And dont ask mad people for advice

Let me guess, mad people = everyone who doesn't agree with you?

Mark Hamill

Wanderer19 wrote: »

If you can't hold a civil conversation you've already lost the debate ...

If you don't discuss his actual points then you aren't even part of the debate.

Liamo57

Keep the phone and xbox away from him until he takes up the job I started working at 12 in a cloyhes shop, mens and womens and was measuring womens waists to sell them knickers, all big fat farmers wives. A good work ethic is important going through life. A lot of the present young people are soft and spoilt which makes life very hard for them as they get older. A good kick in the hole mightn't go astray either.