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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    So you either condone or not the graffiti, if you condone it then you advocate for it and so far I see little condemnation of a cyclist taking the law into their own hands and causing criminal damage to a vehicle.

    Where is the evidence that it was a cyclist who wrote it.

    It could have been anyone.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    Where is the evidence that it was a cyclist who wrote it.

    It could have been anyone.

    Touche, so do you condone the person then?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    The person is parked at the baths in clontarf

    He should not have parked there.

    The three cones are conveniently placed.

    https://maps.app.goo.gl/QWMue8h9cBEuKZhG7
    12. Is parking available?
    Due to the popularity of the Baths it has become apparent that additional car parking is required. You have been kind enough to bring this to our attention along with the potential hazard at the cycle track outside of our premises. Please be advised that we take your comments very seriously and we have been in touch with Dublin City Council Planning and Roads departments to come up with a solution for this problem.
    Dublin City Council has been very supportive, and a number of senior officials have attended on site with a view to resolving these issues. We have our architects and engineers working on preparing drawings for a planning application to upgrade the cycle track and improve the car parking which we hope will be submitted in a number of weeks.
    Please bear with us, as like everybody else we have to go through a planning process, and we would welcome your support. We’ll keep you updated over the course of the next number of weeks.

    Would seem to indicate that parking is allowed there, and indeed the baths are trying to get additional parking


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Would seem to indicate that parking is allowed there, and indeed the baths are trying to get additional parking

    When i said he should not have park there, I meant the positioning of his car........the front has encroached the lane for cyclists heading towards town

    How ironic that the person who parked his car is a member of the triathlon club Triology. The person who would also be a cyclist should have known not to position his car there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,130 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Touche, so do you condone the person then?

    I would like to see more of this kind of thing. Pedestrians and cyclists have put up with arrogant selfish car drivers for long enough. Might buy some lippy myself, finally an excuse to.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,859 ✭✭✭Duckjob


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Because from the EVIDENCE provided, there aren't any parking restrictions, the cycle lane isn't marked across the road, there are no yellow lines and no "no parking" signs but sure the cyclist is in the right to deface the car with graffiti.

    Yeah, apart from the continuous track extending both directions, apart from the bikes and arrows painted on those tracks, and apart from the "CAUTION CYCLISTS" signs along the shared part inbetween,

    I mean how on earth could he have been expected to know he was parking halfway across a cycle track ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Might buy some lippy myself, finally an excuse to.

    Me too....I've some space in the saddle bag.

    Now.....what brand and colour.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Duckjob wrote: »
    Yeah, apart from the continuous track extending both directions, apart from the bikes and arrows painted on those tracks, and apart from the "CAUTION CYCLISTS" signs along the shared part inbetween,

    I mean how on earth could he have been expected to know he was parking halfway across a cycle track ?

    You're not looking at the road where he's parked, you're looking further down from him and extrapolating back. There are NO cycle lane marking lines there, do you even see the yield signs? therefore legally there isn't a cycle lane.

    So do you condone a person causing criminal damage to a car?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You're not looking at the road where he's parked, you're looking further down from him and extrapolating back. There are NO cycle lane marking lines there, do you even see the yield signs? therefore legally there isn't a cycle lane.

    So do you condone a person causing criminal damage to a car?

    Is it a road that he's parked on?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    I would like to see more of this kind of thing. Pedestrians and cyclists have put up with arrogant selfish car drivers for long enough. Might buy some lippy myself, finally an excuse to.
    micar wrote: »

    Me too....I've some space in the saddle bag.

    Now.....what brand and colour.

    So at least we have two of you admitting to that they'd likely (maybe you already do ) take the law into their own hands and cause criminal damage to another road users mode of transport.

    So do you think that pedestrians have the same rights to punish cyclists on footpaths by pushing them over in defence of their right to stand against illegality?

    Or is it a case of one law for them and another for us? ( as in pedestrians and cyclists )


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You're not looking at the road where he's parked, you're looking further down from him and extrapolating back. There are NO cycle lane marking lines there, do you even see the yield signs? therefore legally there isn't a cycle lane.

    So do you condone a person causing criminal damage to a car?

    What are the yield signs for?

    Perhaps for the exit/entrance into the baths.

    No wait, what about the concrete bollards blocking the access point?

    So, the yield signs you refer have no use as cyclists have nothing to yield against.

    The access point to the baths is further up the road and here the bollards were removed. The access point acts as an entrance and exit to the baths. Here there is also a yield sign either side of the cycle lane and have an actual use.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    So at least we have two of you admitting to that they'd likely (maybe you already do ) take the law into their own hands and cause criminal damage to another road users mode of transport.

    So do you think that pedestrians have the same rights to punish cyclists on footpaths by pushing them over in defence of their right to stand against illegality?

    Or is it a case of one law for them and another for us? ( as in pedestrians and cyclists )

    I never said that.

    You're interpretation of "criminal damage" equates to assult.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    What are the yield signs for?

    Perhaps for the exit/entrance into the baths.

    No wait, what about the concrete bollards blocking the access point?

    So, the yield signs you refer have no use as cyclists have nothing to yield against.

    The access point to the baths is further up the road and here the bollards were removed. The access point acts as an entrance and exit to the baths. Here there is also a yield sign either side of the cycle lane and have an actual use.

    There are still NO cycle track markings, the cycle track starts and ends some 3 meters from where the car is, there are still NO parking prohibited signage, to all intents and purposes he would seem to be legally parked, unlike you and your over turned ticket :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    I never said that.

    You're interpretation of "criminal damage" equates to assult.

    No my interpretation is should pedestrians be able to take the law into their own hands, you seem to condone acting in defiance of the law, therefore should pedestrians have the same mindset or is it just limited to some cyclists on here?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    There are still NO cycle track markings, the cycle track starts and ends some 3 meters from where the car is, there are still NO parking prohibited signage, to all intents and purposes he would seem to be legally parked, unlike you and your over turned ticket :)

    Since you referenced their website

    "Free parking is available outside The Baths and we are delighted to announce that we are well into in the process of applying for upgrade works to also include up to 40 new bicycle bays, In the meantime there will be limited parking but if you are parking to please be mindful that a cycle path crosses the entrance to the left and the right, so always check it is clear before entering and leaving."

    If it applies to the entrance then it applies to the point where the car is parked.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »

    Me too....I've some space in the saddle bag.

    Now.....what brand and colour.
    micar wrote: »
    I never said that.

    You're interpretation of "criminal damage" equates to assult.


    Didn't you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    Didn't you?

    I did not say that I am going to buy lipstick and write on someones car.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    Since you referenced their website

    "Free parking is available outside The Baths and we are delighted to announce that we are well into in the process of applying for upgrade works to also include up to 40 new bicycle bays, In the meantime there will be limited parking but if you are parking to please be mindful that a cycle path crosses the entrance to the left and the right, so always check it is clear before entering and leaving."

    If it applies to the entrance then it applies to the point where the car is parked.

    But there ISN'T a cycle path there, it ends at the yield sign, Perhaps you might infer there's one there from there being one either side BUT there isn't one LEGALLY there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    I did not say that I am going to buy lipstick and write on someones car.

    You inferred it, seems to me you like to infer a lot!


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    But there ISN'T a cycle path there, it ends at the yield sign, Perhaps you might infer there's one there from there being one either side BUT there isn't one LEGALLY there.

    So if a driver parks on any bend without markings, with the front third of their vehicle sticking out onto a road, for example, will you be arguing that he's not blocking a road because there are no markings.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    But there ISN'T a cycle path there, it ends at the yield sign, Perhaps you might infer there's one there from there being one either side BUT there isn't one LEGALLY there.

    So it would be ok for a car to be parked up right to the bollards.

    Would be interesting to see what would happen there

    Care to volunteer?


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    You inferred it, seems to me you like to infer a lot!

    You like to assume a lot


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    So if a driver parks on any bend without markings, with the front third of their vehicle sticking out onto a road, for example, will you be arguing that he's not blocking a road because there are no markings.

    No because he is supposed to park parallel to the kerb unless signposted otherwise.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    So it would be ok for a car to be parked up right to the bollards.

    Would be interesting to see what would happen there

    Care to volunteer?

    No because I might get blocked in by someone parked in behind me, however, having said that you still want to ignore the TOTAL lack of paint that would legitimise the situation either way.

    And yet you still condone and would like to put things in your saddlebags to support the actions of a person taking the law into their own hands.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,893 ✭✭✭micar


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No because I might get blocked in by someone parked in behind me

    Perhaps to teach you a lesson because you were blocking the cycle path.

    Would it be a criminal offence to block you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    You like to assume a lot

    Given how often people leave out important parts of their storeys, one has to assume a lot and I will always differentiate when I'm making an assumption or when I'm stating factually.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    Perhaps to teach you a lesson because you were blocking the cycle path.

    Would it be a criminal offence to block you?

    Look at the picture, there IS NOT a cycle path marked there, the tarmac is unpainted, there are NO signs. Doesn't matter how much you wish it otherwise the pictures show the facts.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    micar wrote: »
    Perhaps to teach you a lesson because you were blocking the cycle path.

    Would it be a criminal offence to block you?

    More likely just by general ignorance, same as when people park next door to you on car parks by parking nearside to offside and leaving a 30cm gap to open your driver door and get in.

    Criminal offence? Actually one I'll need to see what I can find, I know if you block someone's driveway they can get you towed, unsure if the same applies if someone parks right up your a$$.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,896 ✭✭✭✭Spook_ie


    Spook_ie wrote: »
    No because I might get blocked in by someone parked in behind me, however, having said that you still want to ignore the TOTAL lack of paint that would legitimise the situation either way.

    And yet you still condone and would like to put things in your saddlebags to support the actions of a person taking the law into their own hands.

    Just so you have an idea about where I'm coming from re the legitimacy of the parking, compare Clontarf Baths junction with Clontarf Pier Junction
    Clontarf-Pier.pngClontarf-Baths.png[/url]

    Now having shown that there is nothing there that indicates the priority of whom over whom, excepting for the yield lines on the cycle path, let's get back to the real question which you seem to want to dance around of criminal damage by painting graffiti, should pedestrians be allowed to take the law into their own hands the same way as this ( assumed) cyclist did and then have it posted up on Twitter for glorification of their lawlessness.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 28,939 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    micar wrote: »
    He has a trilogy jacket on......he's a fu(king cyclist.

    He's a complete idiot.
    In my experience, it's not totally unusual for sports cyclists to not really get the issues that concern many commuting cyclists. There are two very different domains.
    SeanW wrote: »
    Sean O'Casey footbridge? I've never used it in peak times and did not have to negotiate with at least 4 two-wheeled lawbreakers.
    So by 'negotiate', you mean that you go left and they go right, or vice verse - you both find your own space, and pass without incident. That's what generally happens in my experience.
    SeanW wrote: »
    I hear what you're saying, but I've found it difficult not to generalise about cyclists given how many of them:
    • Are extremists.
    • Tell you that cyclists are a hive mind and that we should generalise them.
    A good example is below:

    Conor Faughan may be a person who regularly uses a bicycle, even daily, but he's not really a "cyclist" because he does not have the "correct" politics for a real "cyclist."

    Given how many cyclists seem to hold similar views to that poster, it is very difficult sometimes not to agree.
    It looks like you missed the key point about Mr AA. It’s not that he doesn’t have the ‘correct’ politics. The problem is that he’s a professional lobbyist for a motor insurance company. That’s what he’s paid to do.
    But beyond that point of detail, how many cyclists are what you describe as ‘extremists’? I’m sure we can have a long debate about the definition of ‘extremist’, but let’s leave that aside for a minute. What number of cyclists are ‘extremist’ in your view, and what percentage of all cyclists does this constitute?
    SeanW wrote: »

    Doesn't a Garda require speed monitoring equipment to determine a motorists' speed? How often do Gardai on foot patrol carry that kind of gear around? And how does the Garda on foot patrol catch up to a speeding motorists considering they are on foot and the driver is "speeding" away?
    The question isn’t ‘how often do they carry that gear’. The real question is ‘how often SHOULD they carry that gear’? And why would they need to ‘catch up’? The speed van doesn’t catch up with the vehicle. It sends a fine to the registered owner, so the foot patrol could just note the reg number and do the same. Easy peasy.
    SeanW wrote: »
    Well this part is simply a lie. This thread was started by a pedestrian, neither myself nor Tauren, and there were a few other pedestrians who also shared their experiences of having to negotiate with two-wheeled lawbreakers, usually followed by your good self jumping down their throat with "but motorists kill people" in one case it took you only six minutes to jump down a pedestrians throat with your deflections. I also posted a Liveline recording where yet more people talked about their experiences sharing footpaths with two-wheeled lawbreakers.

    So the idea that just me and Taruen have noticed the behaviour of cyclists is just a straight up lie.
    In fairness though, your own position on this is fairly unique. Your claims of cyclists on pavements ‘menacing with intent’ is absolutely unique. You’re really the only one here, and possibly the only one in the country to be making this particular claim.
    So yes, it looks like you’re left with claiming that everyone else is out of step except you.
    SeanW wrote: »
    You have shown your determination to deflect from the fact that Irish cyclists are totally unregulated and it shows. That does not change the fact that Irish cyclists are totally unregulated, and it shows in their appalling behaviour.
    You’re wrong.
    Cyclists are not totally unregulated. Here’s the proof:
    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-5-000-on-the-spot-fines-issued-to-cyclists-1.3977141
    SeanW wrote: »

    Do I hear the sound of goalposts shifting? Your claim throughout this thread has been very clear. Cracking down on lawbreakers on bikes would detract from the supposedly much needed enforcement for motorists.

    Any implication of this kind is misleading. Any implication that an appropriate level of enforcement targeting motorists (whatever level that might be) and a modicum of enforcement against two-wheeled lawbreakers are mutually exclusive is false, especially given that enforcement methods for both modes differ.

    Does the Chewbacca defense count?


    Just spout a bunch of irrelevant crap to deflect and distract.
    There may be some difference in enforcement methods, but the enforcement resources are the same. We have a finite number of Gardai in the country. Every hour that a Garda spends chasing cyclists is an hour that could be spent reducing the death toll on the road by enforcing traffic law on those who kill two or three people each week.


This discussion has been closed.
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