Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

Hurrache

The Journal comments section is a sewer.

Thelonious Monk

Hurrache wrote: »

The Journal comments section is a sewer.

It's just a reflection of a very large part of Irish population but it really would make you worry for our country.
It's probably a good thing for my mental health, but any time I have tried to sign up to comment on it with my twitter or facebook account, I post something and it just doesn't appear - does anyone know why this happens?

Pinch Flat

People dying on the roads? No problem. Put up an article about cycling, which in this instance is actually about making roads safer, it's a cess pit. Ah well if it helps a few frustrated motorists get it off their chest then well and good.

TaurenDruid

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Irish times Facebook page has a story about a segregated cycle route from blackrock to the 30 foot. Being put in 20 years after it was planned. No comments yet.

Any ideas on comments? I'll start off.

"The don't even use the cycle lanes provided"

Anyone else?

I wonder why the two existing inbound cycle lanes in Fairview aren't enough and instead a new one is needed that would have involved cutting down dozens of 100+ year old trees... Thankfully even the northside cyclists said no to that one!

Hurrache

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I wonder why the two existing inbound cycle lanes in Fairview aren't enough and instead a new one is needed that would have involved cutting down dozens of 100+ year old trees... Thankfully even the northside cyclists said no to that one!

Can they roll up the Fairview one and shift it to the other side of the city when needed? Deadly.

TaurenDruid

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/trinity-college-request-dublin-city-council-cycling-walking-5126303-Jun2020/

Case in point. Already banging on about cyclists on footpaths. No one gave a sh*t about a young couple dying on the roads yesterday though. It's just bizarre.

No, it isn't, it's perfectly understandable.

It's tragic for the young couple and their families, obviously. But I don't know them, or the other driver involved, or the area where it happened. I don't scroll through the journal looking for articles where people died to add an "RIP" comment. Not many do.

If I comment on stories on the journal or FB or here, it's cos I know something about them or am effected by them.

And you know what? You're the same.

No, really - you are.

Or did you comment yesterday on the story about three people tragically losing their lives to covid19? Each of the similar stories for the past couple of months? No? Why not?! BIZARRE! YOU MONSTER!

Stark

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I wonder why the two existing inbound cycle lanes in Fairview aren't enough and instead a new one is needed that would have involved cutting down dozens of 100+ year old trees... Thankfully even the northside cyclists said no to that one!

The Fairview inbound cycle lane is one of the worst cycle lanes in the city. Unusable for a good part of the year when it's under half a foot of wet leaves and the part that isn't covered is needed by the walkers who share the cycle lane. It's funny how people screaming about cyclists using the footpad are the ones who insist on people using it when someone slaps a bit of paint and a picture of a cyclist on a narrow footpath that's already being used by pedestrians.

Pinch Flat

TaurenDruid wrote: »

I wonder why the two existing inbound cycle lanes in Fairview aren't enough and instead a new one is needed that would have involved cutting down dozens of 100+ year old trees... Thankfully even the northside cyclists said no to that one!

Wait, was the thread about not cycling on footpaths? or have I missed something? Appreciate we went off topic a bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/AcM1KxCgVQM9pgdv6

TaurenDruid

Hurrache wrote: »

During construction of the Luas cross city, such was the extent of drivers breaking the bus lane restrictions that the NTA had to pay the overtime of an already overstretched Gardai to enforce it in order to allow construction work stick to schedule and the buses to run properly.
In one month a traffic count registered 500 vehicles, daily, breaking the bus lane restrictions.

Similar action had to be then taken to stop taxis abusing the restrictions on them, i.e. being ignored.

https://twitter.com/DublinCommuters/status/1273365095360405506?s=19

500 drivers a day using a particular bus lane? I'd well believe it.

1000 cyclists a day breaking a red light at the same bus lane? I guarantee it!

Stark

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Wait, was the thread about not cycling on footpaths? or have I missed something? Appreciate we went off topic a bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/AcM1KxCgVQM9pgdv6

You can actually see from the street view that outside of wet leaves mulch season, cyclist do use the cycle track. Only violation was that car half way down the track taking up the entire pedestrian side of the track in order to park in it :rolleyes:

https://goo.gl/maps/BH3WPEwKCsVEPyLh9

TaurenDruid

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Wait, was the thread about not cycling on footpaths? or have I missed something? Appreciate we went off topic a bit.

https://goo.gl/maps/AcM1KxCgVQM9pgdv6

Lovely picture. Don't forget the other cycle lane which starts just to the left, cuts through the park, and comes out just before Newcomen Bridge. Practically deserted, most mornings.

TaurenDruid

Stark wrote: »

Only violation was that car half way down the track taking up the entire pedestrian side of the track in order to park in it :rolleyes:

Wait, wait, I have the answer to that one, thanks to Thelonius and endorsed by Andrew... gimme a sec...

Ah, here we go:

"And at the end of the day the motorist above caused no harm, he was only going to hurt himself."

Stark

I'm generally not too bothered about stuff like that as long as half-blind ****ers don't start freaking out about people using the road to get around the cars parked on the footpath. "Wah wah, perfectly usable footpad right there, wahhhh".

Pinch Flat

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Lovely picture. Don't forget the other cycle lane which starts just to the left, cuts through the park, and comes out just before Newcomen Bridge. Practically deserted, most mornings.

Those clever people at DCC have covered it off in the Part 8 application

"Dublin City Council and the National Transportation Authority propose to improve cycling routes from Talbot Street / Connolly Station to Clontarf at the Alfie Byrne Road. In order to bring existing cycleways and bus lanes to the required standard and accommodate the traffic lanes within the road corridor, realignment of existing kerb lines and lanes will be required to ensure safe and where feasible segregated movement of pedestrians, bicycles, buses and other vehicles."

I'm guessing people don't use it because it's not convenient. I doubt there's a more esoteric reason. Thankfully this is being addressed in the planned redevelopment. You just can't win - people getting outraged about those pesky cyclists on the footpaths, the development is put in train and people moan why the less convenient option in the first place is not sufficient. :rolleyes:

Hurrache

TaurenDruid wrote: »

No, it isn't, it's perfectly understandable.

It's perfectly understandable to comment about bikes and cycling in a story about a fatal crash involving a car and a truck?

TaurenDruid wrote: »

500 drivers a day using a particular bus lane? I'd well believe it.

1000 cyclists a day breaking a red light at the same bus lane? I guarantee it!

I've repeatedly told you the numbers make a fool out of you, and you're doubling up on making yourself more so every time you post trying to dispute reality.

Effects

TaurenDruid wrote: »

1000 cyclists a day breaking a red light at the same bus lane? I guarantee it!

Similar amount of drivers breaking that red light in their cars as well, while breaking the speed limit. I guarantee it!

AndrewJRenko

Effects wrote: »

Similar amount of drivers breaking that red light in their cars as well, while breaking the speed limit. I guarantee it!

The RSA Speed Survey would suggest that it would be a much, much larger number of motorists breaking the speed limit.

Hurrache

It's a survey from a couple of years ago, it contains the magic numbers that several here seem to be immune to, but I'll break it down quite simple for those. If you've any issues, take it up with the gardai who compiled the figures.

1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red

24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)

So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights

Of the fatal collisions in the area, 42% involved pedestrians, none with cyclists

11% of fatal collisions involved cyclists

And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here

71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.

81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

TaurenDruid

Hurrache wrote: »

It's a survey from a couple of years ago, it contains the magic numbers that several here seem to be immune to, but I'll break it down quite simple for those. If you've any issues, take it up with the gardai who compiled the figures.

1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red

24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)

So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights

Of the fatal collisions in the area, 42% involved pedestrians, none with cyclists

11% of fatal collisions involved cyclists

And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here

71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.

81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

Link to survey, please? I mean, I'm not doubting the figures, but then context is important. Andew's famous figures for Dublin are from a selectively presented Kerry cycling blog that clearly omits a lot of relevant data.

Hurrache

How can context in any way change the numbers surveyed versus the number of offenders observed by the Gardai?

Spook_ie

I'll just park this one here

Engineers from Trinity College Dublin have found that 60% of Dublin’s City Centre cyclists are guilty of running red lights.

Just over a month ago a new set of penalties were introduced for cyclists, with the error of running a red light married to a €40 fine. In addition to the financial blow, the high proportion of cyclists not waiting for green to go indicates a serious safety issue for cyclists and other road users.

The research also pinpointed specific junctions at which cyclists ignored the highway code, with one in particular seeing almost 98% of cyclists break a red light.

Hurrache

Leave it there without the overall numbers surveyed, and cyclists vs other forms of transport?

Highway code? Is the 'highway code' law?

Where ever that particular junction is, I'm sure the NTA didn't have to pay the gardai to enforce the issue as it was such a detriment to the rest of the city, like they had to do for taxis around College Green.

Thelonious Monk

Why does anyone care if people break reds on a bike anyway? Once again, they're harmless, they don't need strict regulations the way cars do.

TaurenDruid

Hurrache wrote: »

How can context in any way change the numbers surveyed versus the number of offenders observed by the Gardai?

Oh, I dunno. Being able to compare the percentage of cyclists breaking a particular red light to the percentage of motorists breaking a particular red light.

Seeing how soon after a light has turned red was it broken by a car; a bus; a cyclist. Things like that.

TaurenDruid

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Why does anyone care if people break reds on a bike anyway? Once again, they're harmless, they don't need strict regulations the way cars do.

Because sometimes they end up dead, and we have to scroll through the journal to write "RIP"?

Sometimes I guess it's just damage to their bike, or someone's car?

Huge inconvenience to pedestrians and other road users, including cyclists?

Or because it's illegal?

JFC.

Hurrache

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Oh, I dunno. Being able to compare the percentage of cyclists breaking a particular red light to the percentage of motorists breaking a particular red light.

It's right there in my post, what part of it can you not understand?

TaurenDruid

Hurrache wrote: »

Leave it there without the overall numbers surveyed, and cyclists vs other forms of transport?

Isn't that exactly what you did with the figures you posted yourself, earlier this morning?

Hurrache

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what you did with the figures you posted yourself, earlier this morning?

Again, what part of the exact numbers and figures that I posted you cannot understand?

I thought I put it in really simple form but obviously not enough for some people.

Is it because you believe there's varying degrees to red lights and it's ok if you only break it after it just goes red, things like that?

TaurenDruid

Hurrache wrote: »

It's right there in my post, what part of it can you not understand?

No, it absolutely is not in your post. Your figures make absolute assumptions!

1,296 cars in Dublin recorded breaking a red
24 times the rate of cyclists, 54 during that period. (There were only 5 times the amount of motorists surveyed, so don't try argue the number is higher for cars because there's more)
So only 12% of cyclist were observed breaking red lights
Of the fatal collisions in the area, 42% involved pedestrians, none with cyclists
11% of fatal collisions involved cyclists

And a later survey of the attitudes of drivers towards cyclists seems to have been based on the off the wall posters here
71% believe cyclists do not obey the rules of the road and regularly commit offenses on our roads.
81% said that cyclists regularly break traffic lights

1,296 cars recorded breaking a red out of how many cars?
54 cyclists observed breaking a red out of how many cyclists?

Without those figures, the rest of your calculations are just meaningless. Still waiting on a source...

Spook_ie

I'll just park this here as well seeing as Hurrache wants to find the information

http://www.tara.tcd.ie/bitstream/handle/2262/74776/AAP-D-15-00423R1-3.pdf?sequence=1&isAllowed=y

Do let the people at TCD know if you disagree with their findings.