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Cycling on paths and other cycling issues (updated title)

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    #1352
    ewc78
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Why are things like that given planning permission? Ridiculous, just makes more and more car reliance and isolated children.

    Maybe not everyone wants to live in a kip of a housing estate somewhere in Dublin or any other city suburb.


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    #1353
    SeanW
    Registered Users Posts: 8,831 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Hurrache wrote: »
    If someone does an Evil Knievel off a cliff on a bike it's likely only themselves they'll pancake. If they did it in a car the risk to others is much much larger.
    True, but in this case the only injury was to a vulnerable old persons dignity, pride and sense of self-respect. That's what I took from the story anyway.

    Because as a human being, I am capable of empathy. The article said the car belonged to an elderly couple but didn't say which one caused the accident. Whichever one it was, there's a good chance they're not going to drive anymore (and to be fair, perhaps they should stop driving). Thing is, when old people start to lose their ability to do things for themselves - especially to get around - they usually start to go downhill much, much, faster after that.

    So to me, the correct takeaway from this article was to read it as a small-scale human tragedy. But as Little Andy showed us, you can also take glee in their misfortune because you can use it to score cheap points pushing your own small, hateful, pathetic little crusade.

    Then you can feel good about dumping on a vulnerable old person while you sit in judgement of them from your ivory bicycle seat while you and your ilk smugly sail through every red light and down every footpath in our major cities. At least I get the sense that this is what Andrew and his circlejerk are doing.
    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    You brought up the comparison with motorists yourself, so don't start moaning when the findings don't suit you.

    "All I can say is that anecdotally, on a 8km each way cycle to work, I will easily see 10+ cyclists breaking a red light. I will not see 10+ cars breaking a red light."
    Oh the two-wheeled hypocrisy is delicious. :p


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    #1354
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,580 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    ewc78 wrote: »
    Maybe not everyone wants to live in a kip of a housing estate somewhere in Dublin or any other city suburb.
    at least in most housing estates in dublin you're going to be able to walk to the shops for a newspaper, along a road with public lighting, on an actual footpath.

    it's not that it's built away from the suburbs, it's that it's built over 2km from the nearest town. it's just weird.


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    #1355
    ewc78
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    at least in most housing estates in dublin you're going to be able to walk to the shops for a newspaper, along a road with public lighting, on an actual footpath.

    it's not that it's built away from the suburbs, it's that it's built over 2km from the nearest town. it's just weird.

    I truly fail to see what is weird about it. So what if you can't walk to a shop? First world problems indeed. It's not something that would be high on my list of deciding where to live.

    I lived in Lucan since 2002 and only recently moved back down to where I'm from after finishing building a house in the middle of the country, about 3km from nearest village and about 6km from nearest big town.
    Kids are already in love with it and don't miss anything about living Lucan, even the Wife, a true blue Dub,said she would never move back to Dublin.
    Maybe don't knock it until you tried it...;)


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    #1356
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 49,580 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i was specifically referring to moving to a housing estate in the middle of nowhere where you're overlooked, have a tiny garden, etc.


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    #1357
    ewc78
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    i was specifically referring to moving to a housing estate in the middle of nowhere where you're overlooked, have a tiny garden, etc.

    Still dont see anything wrong with it, it's not exactly the sprawling housing estates you see in Dublin, miles and miles of badly built Celtic Tiger era all built on top of one another. If I didn't have the opportunity to build a house I would have had no problem buying a house in a small estate like that. Each to their own and all that I suppose.
    The gardens in the link you provided look a pretty decent size to me btw.


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    #1358
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,272 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ewc78 wrote: »
    I truly fail to see what is weird about it. So what if you can't walk to a shop? First world problems indeed. It's not something that would be high on my list of deciding where to live.

    No, the first world problem is that you need a car to get to a shop. People with your mindset are the reason this whole country is f*cked with decades of bad planning and scattered housing and ribbon development.


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    #1359
    ewc78
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    No, the first world problem is that you need a car to get to a shop. People with your mindset are the reason this whole country is f*cked with decades of bad planning and scattered housing and ribbon development.

    So people don't use cars to go to the shop in Dublin? I had a Centra about 500 yards from my front door in Lucan and the next door neighbour always drove to it.

    I'm quite happy with my mindset and my decision to take my kids out of Dublin and to build a house in the middle of the country side thank you very much, so you know where you can go with your opinion of me.


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    #1360
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,050 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    I'd bet that if the wheels of the motorbike were hi-vis, along with the body of the bike and the body on the bike, the poor driver would have had a better chance to see the biker.

    https://twitter.com/Trafficwmp/status/1273889220055228416?s=09


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    #1361
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,272 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ewc78 wrote: »
    So people don't use cars to go to the shop in Dublin? I had a Centra about 500 yards from my front door in Lucan and the next door neighbour always drove to it.

    I'm quite happy with my mindset and my decision to take my kids out of Dublin and to build a house in the middle of the country side thank you very much, so you know where you can go with your opinion of me.

    Grand you're happy, good for you. But it is to the detriment of the country that so many people were given permission to build where they like over the last few decades and contributes to poor public transport and car reliance. You don't have a problem with that but progressive people do.


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    #1362
    ewc78
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Grand you're happy, good for you. But it is to the detriment of the country that so many people were given permission to build where they like over the last few decades and contributes to poor public transport and car reliance. You don't have a problem with that but progressive people do.

    Thanks,I couldn't actually be more happy if I tried,also FYI, I'm not any more reliant on my car now than I was when I lived in Lucan.
    Kids won't have Dublin accents now either so that's another bonus :D


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    #1363
    Thelonious Monk
    Registered Users Posts: 14,272 ✭✭✭✭Thelonious Monk


    ewc78 wrote: »
    Thanks,I couldn't actually be more happy if I tried,also FYI, I'm not any more reliant on my car now than I was when I lived in Lucan.
    Kids won't have Dublin accents now either so that's another bonus :D

    You have many chips on your shoulder


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    #1364
    ewc78
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 480 ✭✭ewc78


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    You have many chips on your shoulder

    About 4 I reckon, probably around the same as yourself.


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    #1365
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    ewc78 wrote: »
    Thanks,I couldn't actually be more happy if I tried,also FYI, I'm not any more reliant on my car now than I was when I lived in Lucan.
    Kids won't have Dublin accents now either so that's another bonus :D

    Correct, you are now totally and utterly reliant on your car.


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    #1366
    pleasant Co.
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 7,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭pleasant Co.


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    You have many chips on your shoulder

    You just called yourself a progressive person :pac:


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    #1367
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    This will make your day so Shelga.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/almost-5-000-on-the-spot-fines-issued-to-cyclists-1.3977141

    How much Garda resources do you want to divert away from reducing the death toll on the roads caused by motorists to go chasing cyclists?

    That's shocking. Only 5,000 fines in four years? That's less than four fines a day!

    Sure, you'd often get four cyclists breaking the red on one single light sequence!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbttAigUIjI


    The lack of enforcement quite possibly leads to an attitude of "Ah, sure, it's grand. I'll get away with it anyway." Quite possibly, too, they retain that attitude when they park their bike in the shed and get into their cars...


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    #1368
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    Shelga wrote: »
    What has this got to do with cyclists? I also see about 3 unleashed dogs on my cycle, should I be up in arms about that?

    Sorry, we warned you about the "Drivers KILL PEOPLE!", we forgot to warn you about the whataboutery...


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    #1369
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    at least in most housing estates in dublin you're going to be able to walk to the shops for a newspaper, along a road with public lighting, on an actual footpath.

    Until recently, yes. There are new developments near me now, though, where some of the streets only have footpaths on one side of the street; some actually have no footpath, which is just bizarre.


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    #1370
    micar
    Registered Users Posts: 1,896 ✭✭✭micar


    TaurenDruid wrote: »
    That's shocking. Only 5,000 fines in four years? That's less than four fines a day!

    Sure, you'd often get four cyclists breaking the red on one single light sequence!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbttAigUIjI

    The lack of enforcement quite possibly leads to an attitude of "Ah, sure, it's grand. I'll get away with it anyway." Quite possibly, too, they retain that attitude when they park their bike in the shed and get into their cars...


    Same "Ah, sure, it's grand. I'll get away with it anyway" attitude from motorists

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWC8sT06Zi0


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    #1371
    TaurenDruid
    Registered Users Posts: 4,060 ✭✭✭TaurenDruid


    micar wrote: »
    Same "Ah, sure, it's grand. I'll get away with it anyway" attitude from motorists

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWC8sT06Zi0

    And, obviously, a fair few cyclists too.

    No justifying it. They should all be done.


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    #1372
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,050 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    TaurenDruid wrote: »
    That's shocking. Only 5,000 fines in four years? That's less than four fines a day!

    Sure, you'd often get four cyclists breaking the red on one single light sequence!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbttAigUIjI


    The lack of enforcement quite possibly leads to an attitude of "Ah, sure, it's grand. I'll get away with it anyway." Quite possibly, too, they retain that attitude when they park their bike in the shed and get into their cars...

    I'm not sure why you'd find it shocking at all. You've heard once or twice on this thread about the 98% of motorists that break urban speed limits. You've heard about how the majority of drivers use their phones at the wheel.

    Here's IBikeDublin finding more cars in Dublin parked on bike lanes in a week than the Gardai ticketed in the whole country in a year.
    https://twitter.com/IBIKEDublin/status/943060706613694464

    It should have been fairly clear to anyone that we have a significant issue with enforcement of traffic laws here for all road users.

    So I'll ask you the same question that asked Shelga - how much Garda resources to want to divert away from dealing with the death toll on the road at the hands of motorists to go chasing cyclists?
    Shelga wrote: »
    What has this got to do with cyclists? I also see about 3 unleashed dogs on my cycle, should I be up in arms about that?

    Oh, and btw, unleashed dogs are not against the law. Dogs must be under effective control, which does not necessarily mean leashed. Some Council bye-laws require dogs to be leashed at particular locations - certain parks and beaches.
    SeanW wrote: »
    True, but in this case the only injury was to a vulnerable old persons dignity, pride and sense of self-respect. That's what I took from the story anyway.
    Looks like another case of what you taking want to take or choose to take.

    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/lucky-escape-for-elderly-couple-after-their-car-reverses-20ft-down-rocks-at-salthill-promenade-1005852.html
    The couple was taken by ambulance to University Hospital Galway. It is understood that their injuries are not life-threatening.

    Sgt Vincent Jennings of Salthill Garda Station said that it was a “miracle” that there were no fatalities or injuries.

    So a bit more than a jolly old jape to tell the folks at the bridge club.
    SeanW wrote: »
    Because as a human being, I am capable of empathy. The article said the car belonged to an elderly couple but didn't say which one caused the accident. Whichever one it was, there's a good chance they're not going to drive anymore (and to be fair, perhaps they should stop driving). Thing is, when old people start to lose their ability to do things for themselves - especially to get around - they usually start to go downhill much, much, faster after that.

    So to me, the correct takeaway from this article was to read it as a small-scale human tragedy. But as Little Andy showed us, you can also take glee in their misfortune because you can use it to score cheap points pushing your own small, hateful, pathetic little crusade.

    Then you can feel good about dumping on a vulnerable old person while you sit in judgement of them from your ivory bicycle seat while you and your ilk smugly sail through every red light and down every footpath in our major cities. At least I get the sense that this is what Andrew and his circlejerk are doing.

    Oh yeah, we've seen all your empathy oozing out on the thread. It's a bit selective though that empathy. Cyclists are 'lawbreaking scum' (empathy? ) while speeding motorists are the best in the world.

    There's that old 'accident/tragedy' language again, designed to absolve anyone of responsibility and avoid any possibility of learning from the experience.

    These 'tragic accidents' are going to keep happening right until we actually start holding motorists accountable for the mayhem they cause.

    Any examples of those 'mostly unavoidable' road deaths yet?


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    #1373
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    TaurenDruid wrote: »
    That's shocking. Only 5,000 fines in four years? That's less than four fines a day!

    Sure, you'd often get four cyclists breaking the red on one single light sequence!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbttAigUIjI


    The lack of enforcement quite possibly leads to an attitude of "Ah, sure, it's grand. I'll get away with it anyway." Quite possibly, too, they retain that attitude when they park their bike in the shed and get into their cars...

    Agree... enforcement is needed! If any of those lads came towards me while I was crossing the road, I’d stand my ground! Muppets!


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    #1374
    spookwoman
    Registered Users Posts: 9,949 ✭✭✭spookwoman


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    thankfully, this is incredibly rare; there is no inquest verdict i'm aware of from the second case above which would throw light on what happened, but the only case i'm aware of where the cyclist was found responsible dates from either 2002 or 2003.

    Reality is we don't really know how many accidents happen due to pedestrians walking out in front of cyclists, motor vehicles and cyclists taking risks or carelessness.


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    #1375
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,685 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Agree... enforcement is needed! If any of those lads came towards me while I was crossing the road, I’d stand my ground! Muppets!

    Very inadvisable for a pedestrian to "stand their ground" with any moving vehicle even if it's braking a light. The chances of getting hurt would be high.

    This is telling... According to Transdev, the LUAS operators... Drivers account for more than half of all crashes and emergency braking incidents!!!, pedestrians more than one third and cyclists less than 10%.

    So, sorry motorists and pedestrians (me incuded :mad: ), the cyclists have the edge on us, they're the safest and most aware road users in the city. Stats don't lie.


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    #1376
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Very inadvisable for a pedestrian to stand in any moving vehicle even if it's braking a light. The chances of getting hurt would be high.

    This is telling... According to Transdev, the LUAS operators... Drivers account for more than half of all crashes and emergency braking incidents!!!, pedestrians more than one third and cyclists less than 10%.

    So, sorry motorists and pedestrians (me incuded :mad: ), the cyclists have the edge on us, they're the safest and most aware road users in the city. Stats don't lie.
    Nah a good shove with my shoulder will do! I’ll be ok... cyclist breaking the red light goes flying!


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    #1377
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,685 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    Nah a good shove with my shoulder will do! I’ll be ok... cyclist breaking the red light goes flying!

    Internet tough guy! Doesn't work that way in real life. Cyclist will spot what you're at immediately and avoid or brake.


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    #1378
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    Internet tough guy! Doesn't work that way in real life. Cyclist will spot what you're at immediately and avoid or brake.

    It worked the last time!


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    #1379
    John_Rambo
    Registered Users Posts: 9,685 ✭✭✭John_Rambo


    07Lapierre wrote: »
    It worked the last time!

    But you said if this happened to you you'd stand your ground, meaning it's never happened. Now you're spoofing that it actually did happen to you and you shouldered a cyclist off her or his bike. :pac::pac:


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    #1380
    07Lapierre
    Registered Users Posts: 8,245 ✭✭✭07Lapierre


    John_Rambo wrote: »
    But you said if this happened to you you'd stand your ground, meaning it's never happened. Now you're spoofing that it actually did happen to you and you shouldered a cyclist off her or his bike. :pac::pac:

    Doh! Damn! Their goes my macho image! :)


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    #1381
    meeeeh
    Registered Users Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Thelonious Monk wrote: »
    Grand you're happy, good for you. But it is to the detriment of the country that so many people were given permission to build where they like over the last few decades and contributes to poor public transport and car reliance. You don't have a problem with that but progressive people do.

    Progressive people who live in semi-ds with cardboard walls and who still walk to get newspaper when everyone else is accessing them online.

    In my case kids are happy, we have space, house that's built to decent standards so it doesn't take a lot to heat, good school and woods in the doorstep where you can walk, run and kids can cycle. From middle of March to beginning of June ours didn't even sit in the car, they were in no shops but they went for our long walks or 10km cycles almost every day (they are 7 and 11).

    I make about 20,000 km per year in car but that includes quite a bit of travel for wonk or trips around the country (my car is the family car). Commute to work is 6km and all the shopping is done when leaving work. The way my husband works we would always need two cars if we lived in a estate or a nice house with a garden. I understand the temptation to blame us living in the country for everything but Dublin isn't populated densely enough and any new development seems to be blocked because people need their front and back gardens in a city.


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