Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

speckle

growleaves wrote: »

I love this comment in response to people in Green Land Victory City being welded inside a building:

'I thought the IFR and CFR were very very low. The published numbers don't warrant this level of action. What does China know that we don't.'

Touching how this guy thinks that Communist murderers care what the IFR and CFR are, and that he thinks they give out accurate numbers. Also, what 'warrants this level of action' you utter fool?

This is the new Western man: everything, but everything, is to be taken at face value all of the time.

I presume that the guy you mention is not me but a reply to the twitter post? As I agree with you sentiment that this level of action is not needed and worry about those taken away from their homes on masse.

growleaves

I presume that the guy you mention is not me but a reply to the twitter post?

Yes I mean the guy on Twitter. Sorry for any confusion.

owlbethere

bb1234567 wrote: »

Oh god is the NZ comparison still going. What's done is done, the Irish government did the best they could with what they had, and it worked out relatively okay, no major disaster.

Except for the nursing homes and residents getting wiped out. My dog had a better end of life a few years ago at the vets surrounded by her family and getting smothered in kisses and tears and rubs. Many of these people who died in nursing homes never even had the hand of a loved family member to hold.

speckle

growleaves wrote: »

Yes I mean the guy on Twitter. Sorry for any confusion.

No problem. thanks.

MerlinSouthDub

owlbethere wrote: »

Except for the nursing homes and residents getting wiped out. My dog had a better end of life a few years ago at the vets surrounded by her family and getting smothered in kisses and tears and rubs. Many of these people who died in nursing homes never even had the hand of a loved family member to hold.

The failure to protect nursing homes is a national scandal. It is not as if we did not know the nursing homes would be a high area of risk, we'd already seen it happen in Italy. We basically had one thing to get right and we failed. We seem to think we've done well because we've done better than the UK. But we have done worse than nearly every other country in Europe. Italy and Spain were hit very early, and with little time to prepare. We have no such excuse.

hmmm

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

We basically had one thing to get right and we failed. We seem to think we've done well because we've done better than the UK. But we have done worse than nearly every other country in Europe. Italy and Spain were hit very early, and with little time to prepare. We have no such excuse.

I don't think most people in Ireland who have made huge sacrifices would appreciate you running down our effort. There was a lot of things to get right, most of which we did.

At the beginning of this, and going on what we knew from Italy, it looked like trying to protect our hospitals from being overwhelmed and protecting our medical staff were the most important thing we needed to do.

Now with the benefit of hindsight, we can see that worked well - but there were gaps elsewhere. Most countries made the same mistake, but in any crisis you act as fast as you can with the knowledge you have at the time.

ElTel

Arghus wrote: »

Once a government is formed, don't be surprised to see restrictions melt away.

Right now, while they're indulging themselves in exhaustive talks, it's handy for Tony Holohan and NPHET take the flack for everything. Even though they're just doing their job.

Government can sweep down in a few weeks and take the plaudits for lifting restrictions.

Yeah but I think they're fudging for the time being because they don't want to make the call on the first domino, to open creches and primary schools.

hmmm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

I just hope we learn from this and any future pandemics we have an all Ireland approach to new infections. An all Ireland approach would make closing borders easier. What happens if the next pandemic will be Ebola-2?

We won't have an all-Ireland approach because of the political situation in the North, where the unionist community will oppose anything which looks like diverging from the UK. We can have co-operation, but all-Ireland is off the table. Anyone who thinks this is realistic needs to study a history of the past 80 years.

We certainly were not going to get 80 years of entrenched political positions reversed in a rush at the beginning of this year.

MerlinSouthDub

hmmm wrote: »

I don't think most people in Ireland who have made huge sacrifices would appreciate you running down our effort. There was a lot of things to get right, most of which we did.

At the beginning of this, and going on what we knew from Italy, it looked like trying to protect our hospitals from being overwhelmed and protecting our medical staff were the most important thing we needed to do.

Now with the benefit of hindsight, we can see that worked well - but there were gaps elsewhere. Most countries made the same mistake, but in any crisis you act as fast as you can with the knowledge you have at the time.

It's not the benefit of hindsight. We could see from Italy and from China that older people were at much higher risk. Most countries in Europe did much better than us at protecting the elderly.

petes

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It's not the benefit of hindsight. We could see from Italy and from China that older people were at much higher risk. Most countries in Europe did much better than us at protecting the elderly.

Which countries?

MerlinSouthDub

petes wrote: »

Which countries?

Austria, Germany, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Greece, Poland, every country in Eastern Europe.

We have the youngest population in Europe. We should have the lowest Covid death rate in Europe, not the 8th highest.

trapp

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

It's not the benefit of hindsight. We could see from Italy and from China that older people were at much higher risk. Most countries in Europe did much better than us at protecting the elderly.

This is nonsense my poor friend.

What countries did much better at protecting the elderly?

Go on, name them.

You are aware that the vast majority of our elderly and vulnerable population don't live in nursing homes?

We supressed the virus in the community thus saving thousands of lives.

Could we have done better with the nursing homes, of course we could.

But stop talking nonsense about not protecting the elderly.

snowstorm445

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Distribution of laboratory confirmed cases of COVID-19 in the EU/EEA and the UK, as of 29 May 2020 @ 08:00 hrs. CET



Daily cases in Europe tailing off nicely... not sure what happened in ? France today with a big increase in reported cases.

Larger clickable version here :- https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Systems update apparently.

https://www.france24.com/en/20200528-confirmed-french-coronavirus-cases-jump-due-to-systems-update-but-daily-deaths-stay-low

trapp

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Austria, Germany, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Greece, Poland, every country in Eastern Europe.

We have the youngest population in Europe. We should have the lowest Covid death rate in Europe, not the 8th highest.

More nonsense.

The epicentre of the pandemic was western europe so eastern europe hardly relevant.

bb1234567

owlbethere wrote: »

Except for the nursing homes and residents getting wiped out. My dog had a better end of life a few years ago at the vets surrounded by her family and getting smothered in kisses and tears and rubs. Many of these people who died in nursing homes never even had the hand of a loved family member to hold.

Yes that was bad but it is a different issue to the main goal which was stopping massive community spread and collapse of healthcare infrastructure, it was the main goal and it was achieved. Nursing homes were not a foreseen as major points of spread and have been an issue in most countries but for some reason especially Ireland, I don't see what we did in terms of planning that has led to such a high number of nursing home deaths , I think it was just bad luck.

MerlinSouthDub

trapp wrote: »

More nonsense.

The epicentre of the pandemic was western europe so eastern europe hardly relevant.

Thanks, but all but one of the countries I listed is in Western Europe

bb1234567

trapp wrote: »

More nonsense.

The epicentre of the pandemic was western europe so eastern europe hardly relevant.

Yes, serum tests have shown extremely low prevalence of the disease in East Europe, I think 0,5% of the Czech population had antibodies, vs at least 5% in Spain, France , UK, Sweden etc. It was a western european outbreak, East european countries should not be used as comparisons

trapp

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Thanks, but all but one of the countries I listed is in Western Europe

Austria, Germany, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Greece, Poland, every country in Eastern Europe.

That is your list.

I quote 'every country in eastern Europe'

Stop digging my poor man and take your misguided critcism elsewhere.

We supressed the virus and in doing this protected the elderly and vulnerable in our communities.

Big lessons to be learned from nursing homes but the majority of our elderly and vulnerable do not live in nursing homes.

To suggest this country failed to protect the elderly is misguided hyperbolic nonsense of the highest order.

hmmm

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

We have the youngest population in Europe. We should have the lowest Covid death rate in Europe, not the 8th highest.

You can't compare death rates at the moment, countries are recording deaths differently. Some countries have pretty much ignored deaths in nursing homes.

We'll have better stats in the years to come no doubt.

As well as this we had a lockdown which was quite a bit less stringent than some other countries. France, Spain, Italy had much more severe lockdowns - I don't remember many people asking for us to be even more locked down, and if anything people are asking now for restrictions to be lifted faster. If we do that transmission is inevitably going to rise, and nursing homes will be at risk - but that's a balance every government has to decide on.

MerlinSouthDub

trapp wrote: »

Austria, Germany, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Greece, Poland, every country in Eastern Europe.

That is your list.

I quote 'every country in eastern Europe'

Stop digging my poor man and take your misguided critcism elsewhere.

We supressed the virus and in doing this protected the elderly and vulnerable in our communities.

Big lessons to be learned from nursing homes but the majority of our elderly and vulnerable do not live in nursing homes.

To suggest this country failed to protect the elderly is misguided hyperbolic nonsense of the highest order.

We have the 8th highest Covid death rate in Europe, with the youngest population. I cannot understand how anyone could see that as an acceptable outcome.

You say all Eastern European countries are irrelevant, even Slovenia and Croatia, who have land borders with northern Italy.

bb1234567

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

We have the 8th highest Covid death rate in Europe, with the youngest population. I cannot understand how anyone could see that as an acceptable outcome.

You say all Eastern European countries are irrelevant, even Slovenia and Croatia, who have land borders with northern Italy.

Based on current stats, it is really too early to say whether we actually have the 8th highest in Europe. Just off the top of my head, the UK has reported about 40,000 covid deaths in total, yet since March 1st over 60,000 people have died above the average range in that time frame. Similarly Spain has reported around 30,000 covid deaths, but over 50,000 more people than normal in the country have died since March 1st. Italy has reported 33,000 covid deaths, yet almost 65,000 more people have died in the country between March and May than normal.

That is potentially 70,000 unreported covid deaths(obviously not all of the excess deaths will be covid), just from 3 European countries.

Ireland's excess deaths match the number of covid deaths we have reported quite accurately, similar to Belgium. So how can we say Ireland has such a highdeath rate when there are countries in Europe clearly underrporting covid deaths in the literal tens of thousands?

trapp

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

We have the 8th highest Covid death rate in Europe, with the youngest population. I cannot understand how anyone could see that as an acceptable outcome.

You say all Eastern European countries are irrelevant, even Slovenia and Croatia, who have land borders with northern Italy.

Dear oh dear oh dear.

Where do we start with this.

You have already been told my poor man that comparing death rates is pointless given the huge differences in reporting deaths.

The epicentre of the pandemic was western europe.

Did we get everything right? No

Is there lessons to be learned? Of course

But your nonsense that we 'failed to protect the elderly' is simply wrong on so many levels.

We suppressed the virus in the community without overwhelming the hospitals.

In doing this the lives of many elderly and vulnerable were saved.

You would make a good headline writer for the Star or the Sun.

But is there any truth to your statements? No

statesaver

trapp wrote: »

Austria, Germany, Norway, Finland, Switzerland, Greece, Poland, every country in Eastern Europe.

That is your list.

I quote 'every country in eastern Europe'

Stop digging my poor man and take your misguided critcism elsewhere.

We supressed the virus and in doing this protected the elderly and vulnerable in our communities.

Big lessons to be learned from nursing homes but the majority of our elderly and vulnerable do not live in nursing homes.

To suggest this country failed to protect the elderly is misguided hyperbolic nonsense of the [/B]highest order.

Around 54% and raising deaths from Covid are in/from nursing /care homes but sure that ' is misguided hyperbolic nonsense ..... '

Are you a FG / Leo PR office bot ?

fits

Someone I know died today after being in ICU for weeks. He should have had many good years ( decades) in front of him. Terribly sad

trapp

statesaver wrote: »

Around 54% and raising deaths from Covid are in/from nursing /care homes but sure that ' is misguided hyperbolic nonsense ..... '

Are you a FG / Leo PR office bot ?

To suggest we 'failed to protect the elderly' is misguided hyperbolic nonsense.

We suppressed the virus and in doing so saved thousands of lives.

A high percentage of deaths is always going to be in these catagories as this is who the virus impacts most.

What stats do you expect?

60% of the deaths are in 20 - 40 age group

85% of the deaths are children under 10

It impacts older people. What do you expect?

If we had not supressed it in the community much more 'young' vulnerable people would have died.

MerlinSouthDub

trapp wrote: »

Dear oh dear oh dear.

Where do we start with this.

You have already been told my poor man that comparing death rates is pointless given the huge differences in reporting deaths.

The epicentre of the pandemic was western europe.

Did we get everything right? No

Is there lessons to be learned? Of course

But your nonsense that we 'failed to protect the elderly' is simply wrong on so many levels.

We suppressed the virus in the community without overwhelming the hospitals.

In doing this the lives of many elderly and vulnerable were saved.

You would make a good headline writer for the Star or the Sun.

But is there any truth to your statements? No

If people genuinely think we have done better than, say, Germany, then I fear for our analytical abilities.

Yes we did fail to protect the most vulnerable elderly people and there is no excuse for it.

trapp

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

If people genuinely think we have done better than, say, Germany, then I fear for our analytical abilities.

Yes we did fail to protect the most vulnerable elderly people and there is no excuse for it.

No one suggested we did better than Germany.

You have a habit my poor man of ignoring how everyone points out how misguided your posts are and just throwing out rash hyperbolic statements.

We suppressed the virus in the community and thus saved thousands of elderly lives and the lives of younger people with health issues.

Which aspect of that can't you understand?

You are aware that failure to suppress the virus would have led to many more deaths among the elderly and the 'young' vulnerable in our communties?

Away With The Fairies

fits wrote: »

Someone I know died today after being in ICU for weeks. He should have had many good years ( decades) in front of him. Terribly sad

How old was he?

fits

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How old was he?

Late fifties I’d say.

Away With The Fairies

fits wrote: »

Late fifties I’d say.

Far too young