Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

Plumbthedepths

fr336 wrote: »

So what is 10% of the population?

I mentioned the recovered rate from known confirmed cases. So your 'killer virus' doesn't seem to be all that effective at killing.

fr336

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I mentioned the recovered rate from known confirmed cases. So your 'killer virus' doesn't seem to be all that effective at killing.

You don't think 10% is notable for a virus that can infect anyone? It's not my killer virus - it's most of the world's government's killer virus. And these are the last people who want to shut down their economies.

Rob A. Bank

ACitizenErased wrote: »

I’ve never ever heard a vaccine producer say that. Chances of any vaccine production succeeding is less than 15%.

A comprehensive list of state of play for the development of various Drugs, Vaccines, Non-Drug Therapies and Testing.

"Even moderately effective therapies or combinations could dramatically reduce the crushing demand on hospitals and intensive care units, changing the nature of the risk the new pathogen represents to populations and healthcare systems.

New drugs, together with new diagnostics, antibody tests, patient- and contact-tracing technologies, disease surveillance and other early-warning tools, mean the anticipated next 'wave' of the global pandemic does not have to be nearly as bad as the first.

More than 70 vaccine candidates are also in development around the world, with at least five in preliminary testing in people. Here are some of the drugs, vaccines and other therapies in development:"

https://graphics.reuters.com/HEALTH-CORONAVIRUS/yxmvjqywprz/index.html

Rob A. Bank

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I mentioned the recovered rate from known confirmed cases. So your 'killer virus' doesn't seem to be all that effective at killing.

Tell that to the Yanks or the Brazilians !

Reported cases worldwide

1st reported case 8th December in Wohan, China

1 million cases April 2nd… which was 114 days later

2 million cases April 14th… 12 days later

3 million cases April 27th… 13 days later

4 million cases May 9th…. 12 days later

5 million cases May 20th… 11 days later

6 million cases May 29th… 9 days later

NegativeCreep

fr336 wrote: »

You don't think 10% is notable for a virus that can infect anyone? It's not my killer virus - it's most of the world's government's killer virus. And these are the last people who want to shut down their economies.

The 10% is from known cases. There are far more unknown so the actual percentage is far lower but you know that

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

Tell that to the Yanks or the Brazilians !

Reported cases worldwide

1st reported case 8th December in Wohan, China

1 million cases April 2nd… which was 114 days later

2 million cases April 14th… 12 days later

3 million cases April 27th… 13 days later

4 million cases May 9th…. 12 days later

5 million cases May 20th… 11 days later

6 million cases May 29th… 9 days later

Tell what? It's a fact over 90% of confirmed cases here todate have recovered.
What has the rate of infection got to do with my comment?

fr336

NegativeCreep wrote: »

The 10% is from known cases. There are far more unknown so the actual percentage is far lower but you know that

So what do you suggest? Should we open everything up right now? Are masks part of the solution? Genuine questions, by the way. No need to be so negative.

Will catch up with you lads later. Off to mingle in the UK crowds in the sunny park.

Rob A. Bank

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Tell what? It's a fact over 90% of confirmed cases here todate have recovered.
What has the rate of infection got to do with my comment?

The trend in infections is mirrored in the death rate some time later, in spite of the improving prognosis of confirmed cases.

Plumbthedepths

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

The trend in infections is mirrored in the death rate some time later, in spite of the improving prognosis of confirmed cases.

So the greater the number infected , the greater number that die. Hardly earth shattering news.

ACitizenErased

Dayjur wrote: »

Of course you'd put a dampener on any good news

You’re clearly a new poster on these threads if you think I am negative.

Plumbthedepths

fr336 wrote: »

So what do you suggest? Should we open everything up right now? Are masks part of the solution? Genuine questions, by the way. No need to be so negative.

Ask Boris he's the guy in charge where you live.

ShooterSF

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Business owners can’t exactly sit back and relax and enjoy the break though can they? Or people who have lost their jobs because of lockdown. It’s all well and good telling people to “enjoy the break” like this is some sort of holiday while you collect your 350 and sit on your hole all day.

I think businesses should reopen and anyone who doesn’t want to rejoin society can quit their jobs, go on the dole and hide in their houses if they’re so scared. Let the rest of us get back to normal.

So are you saying you are ok with people getting the dole when not seeking a job? I thought most workers had a huge issue with people doing that?

political analyst

Mark Paul wrote this:

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/small-businesses-are-cannon-fodder-in-zealous-anti-virus-experiment-1.4264850?mode=amp&fbclid=IwAR2LWDP54x1PW3Tclb_0dW0iUBcYYjOukTBU_ULcnytbgSaJIjgwURPw5LQ

Why must Ireland be the nation still sucking its thumb in fear while the rest of Europe tries to walk carefully again? It would make sense if we had been hit harder or faced greater threats than the others. But that’s not the case.

It is hard to reconcile this with the declaration to an Oireachtas committee last week of Tony Holohan, the chief medical officer, who said the virus has been “extinguished from the community in general”.

He said the Republic no longer has “sustained widespread community transmission”. In other words, the virus isn’t swirling much around the general public anymore. Instead, it is mainly confined to nursing homes, hospitals and hotspots such as meat factories, and the close contacts of people linked to them.

So why not let the restaurants re-open before the end of June and reduce the distancing rule by a metre (or at least by half a metre)? After all, the R number is way below 1.

Although he was slapped down, Michael O’Leary of Ryanair was correct this week to point out some inconsistency. It is a conscious decision to sacrifice the travel and hospitality industries. It could be justified for travel from complacent countries like the US. But why impose this on sensible Europe?

Yup - hotels, restaurants and travel businesses are being thrown under a bus.

When the Republic was luxuriating in exaggerated self-praise in March for being an early mover on restrictions, people were not told they would be the last in Europe to ease up. It feels akin to a deception. It will also sacrifice retailers.

The State says its research shows people want a very slow lockdown unwinding. But that is not a measure of their desires. It is a measure of their fear. All the while, the goalposts are shifted.

The lockdown as it stands is economic 'hara-kiri'. Why has the government moved the goalposts?

There is no good reason to, as Mr Paul put it, slavishly follow every last scrap of draconian advice from well-meaning scientists and doctors.

Let us be clear: nobody is acting in bad faith here. Not the medics or Government, but nor are those criticising them. The nation will stay indebted to the National Public Health Emergency Team for helping to save so many lives in the acute phase of the virus. But some of their ideas will kill many livelihoods dependent upon small businesses in the next phase.

Morally and practically, this cannot be brushed aside as an irrelevance.

The virus may be lethal for older people, but the medicine we are being asked to chug now is no good for the young. It is mostly the young, alongside immigrants and the modestly-skilled, who work in the retail, hospitality and tourism sectors that will be devastated by our fat dose of over-caution.

There will be no work for the young unless we get a grip and tackle this draining of our national self-confidence. For that is what has happened here.

Does Varadkar not care about those who work in the retail, hospitality and tourism sectors? The government's apparent indifference is difficult to comprehend.

As the medical crisis gets usurped in time by its terrible economic twin, having a GP as Taoiseach could shift from being a clear advantage to a drawback.

Despite his background as a man of medicine, Leo Varadkar built his political profile as a defender of liberal economics. So he must realise that Ireland, one of the most open economies in the world, can’t possibly function properly in the European single market if we set ourselves up as a walled garden away from it.

One of the most irritating aspects of this pivot into a deeply conservative anti-virus strategy, and for which no proper public debate was held, is that those leading it keep repeating the mantra that it will be good for business. Almost nobody in business is saying this – quite the opposite. But, like doctors, the Government has decided it knows best.

Why throw democracy out the window because of a virus which has no serious effect on 80% of those who contract it? Just have those whose lives would be at risk from contracting the virus cocooned until the pandemic is over. Why should those who don't have serious underlying health problems have to be inconvenienced for something that is nothing to do with them? Sure, those who have cystic fibrosis and other serious conditions are cocooning anyway.

The Government would never take the risks with the foreign direct investment sector that it is now taking with SMEs. Not in a million years.

Does Varadkar have no conscience?!

Whatever people in this forum think of Mr Paul, let's hear him out and agree or disagree with him on a point-by-point basis.

titan18

NegativeCreep wrote: »

Business owners can’t exactly sit back and relax and enjoy the break though can they? Or people who have lost their jobs because of lockdown. It’s all well and good telling people to “enjoy the break” like this is some sort of holiday while you collect your 350 and sit on your hole all day.

I think businesses should reopen and anyone who doesn’t want to rejoin society can quit their jobs, go on the dole and hide in their houses if they’re so scared. Let the rest of us get back to normal.

So you'd be ok with people being forced back to work in bars/restaurants etc who need the money but might be vulnerable?

Example from the US

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/terrifying-lake-of-ozarks-worker-must-return-to-job-but-fears-virus-in-crowds/ar-BB14F2X6

fr336

political analyst wrote: »

Why throw democracy out the window because of a virus which has no serious effect on 80% of those who contract it? Just have those whose lives would be at risk from contracting the virus cocooned until the pandemic is over. Why should those who don't have serious underlying health problems have to be inconvenienced for something that is nothing to do with them? Sure, those who have cystic fibrosis and other serious conditions are cocooning anyway.

This is exactly the same argument people were making back in March. So why bother going into lockdown at all in that case - should we have just kept going without one? As for democracy, don't know about Ireland but in UK the majority of the public overwhelmingly supports lockdown.

Anyway really am off out now. Going to keep my distance from strangers as it may be a semi good idea.

Peanut Butter Jelly

It really is disappointing to be in town getting the necessities and being the only person wearing a face covering of any description. It's such an easy thing to do and yet no one I saw could be bothered. I don't know if it's complacency or lack of clarity in the public health advice or both, but surely it needs to be driven home about wearing them.

(And yes I know there are certain people for whom wearing coverings can be unsuitable, but the odds of the 50 or 60 people I saw in town all being in that category is surely very low)

trapp

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

It really is disappointing to be in town getting the necessities and being the only person wearing a face covering of any description. It's such an easy thing to do and yet no one I saw could be bothered. I don't know if it's complacency or lack of clarity in the public health advice or both, but surely it needs to be driven home about wearing them.

(And yes I know there are certain people for whom wearing coverings can be unsuitable, but the odds of the 50 or 60 people I saw in town all being in that category is surely very low)

To be blunt it is none of your business if other people cover their face or not.

If you want to do it fine but others are not really your business.

We've all made huge sacrifices to suppress the virus.

NegativeCreep

titan18 wrote: »

So you'd be ok with people being forced back to work in bars/restaurants etc who need the money but might be vulnerable?

Example from the US

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/terrifying-lake-of-ozarks-worker-must-return-to-job-but-fears-virus-in-crowds/ar-BB14F2X6

They’ll still be vulnerable in August

ACitizenErased

Peanut Butter Jelly wrote: »

It really is disappointing to be in town getting the necessities and being the only person wearing a face covering of any description. It's such an easy thing to do and yet no one I saw could be bothered. I don't know if it's complacency or lack of clarity in the public health advice or both, but surely it needs to be driven home about wearing them.

(And yes I know there are certain people for whom wearing coverings can be unsuitable, but the odds of the 50 or 60 people I saw in town all being in that category is surely very low)

You’re not going to catch the virus out in public.

owlbethere

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You’re not going to catch the virus out in public.

I was in my local shop this morning and I saw a local woman cough openly into the air without a care in the world on her. This was the second time this week I noticed such careless sh1te about coughing. Earlier in the week I saw someone coughing and she did make an attempt to cover her cough but she did it into her hands. This is what people are up against. There's a section of society who just don't care about others.

NegativeCreep

ShooterSF wrote: »

So are you saying you are ok with people getting the dole when not seeking a job? I thought most workers had a huge issue with people doing that?

If it meant things could open I wouldn’t care. I don’t think they’d stay on it too long anyway.

trapp

owlbethere wrote: »

I was in my local shop this morning and I saw a local woman cough openly into the air without a care in the world on her. This was the second time this week I noticed such careless sh1te about coughing. Earlier in the week I saw someone coughing and she did make an attempt to cover her cough but she did it into her hands. This is what people are up against. There's a section of society who just don't care about others.

The numbers are so low at the moment that the chance of passing someone with the virus is miniscule.

Doesn't excuse what they did.

owlbethere

trapp wrote: »

The numbers are so low at the moment that the chance of passing someone with the virus is miniscule.

Doesn't excuse what they did.

This is my thinking too. Community transmission is low and I'm from a rural village. Chances of the virus would be low. That careless sh1t about coughing into the open has to stop especially before the winter in case of a second wave.

Rob A. Bank

ACitizenErased wrote: »

You’re not going to catch the virus out in public.

Proof ?

You can catch the virus anywhere, if you get infected with enough virus.

shinzon

NegativeCreep wrote: »

If it meant things could open I wouldn’t care. I don’t think they’d stay on it too long anyway.

1) Do you have a business that you need to open thats in a phase further down the roadmap.

2) is there something that you particularly need urgently from a place that's currently closed.

3) Or is it that you just want to go anywhere you want whenever you want.

Everyone here that posts open up open up accelerate the roadmap only ever cites the economy tanking as the number one reason as to risk a second wave. So in your particular circumstance can you tell me why you want to open up as quickly as possible

Shin

NegativeCreep

shinzon wrote: »

1) Do you have a business that you need to open thats in a phase further down the roadmap.

2) is there something that you particularly need urgently from a place that's currently closed.

3) Or is it that you just want to go anywhere you want whenever you want.

Everyone here that posts open up open up accelerate the roadmap only ever cites the economy tanking as the number one reason as to risk a second wave. So in your particular circumstance can you tell me why you want to open up as quickly as possible

Shin

My mother needs her radiation therapy for cancer which has been cancelled due to coronavirus

political analyst

fr336 wrote: »

This is exactly the same argument people were making back in March. So why bother going into lockdown at all in that case - should we have just kept going without one? As for democracy, don't know about Ireland but in UK the majority of the public overwhelmingly supports lockdown.

Anyway really am off out now. Going to keep my distance from strangers as it may be a semi good idea.

That's not what I meant.

The R number is way below 1 and most of the Covid clusters were in hospitals and nursing homes. Therefore, I don't see a good reason to prevent restaurants from reopening earlier than scheduled with provision for social distancing.

PmMeUrDogs

shinzon wrote: »

1) Do you have a business that you need to open thats in a phase further down the roadmap.

2) is there something that you particularly need urgently from a place that's currently closed.

3) Or is it that you just want to go anywhere you want whenever you want.

Everyone here that posts open up open up accelerate the roadmap only ever cites the economy tanking as the number one reason as to risk a second wave. So in your particular circumstance can you tell me why you want to open up as quickly as possible

Shin

Plenty of people are concerned about their jobs. I'm still at work but the company has tanked financially and all of us are at risk of redundancy.


Plenty of people, myself included, have had necessary medical procedures and surgeries cancelled with no alternative dates given.


I haven't said anything about wanting a full reopening yet, because I'm okay with how things are for now, but to assume everyone just wants to do whatever they like is very flippant. Some of us have genuine health concerns and financial concerns.

political analyst

The WHO and the Euro CDC think one metre is enough for social distancing. So why does Tony Holohan not think one metre - or one and a half metres at most - is enough?

ACitizenErased

owlbethere wrote: »

I was in my local shop this morning and I saw a local woman cough openly into the air without a care in the world on her. This was the second time this week I noticed such careless sh1te about coughing. Earlier in the week I saw someone coughing and she did make an attempt to cover her cough but she did it into her hands. This is what people are up against. There's a section of society who just don't care about others.

There is no known cases or clusters related to shops.