Covid19 Part XVIII-25,473 in ROI(1,736 deaths) 5,760 in NI (551 deaths)(30/06)Read OP

deathbomber

polesheep wrote: »

As long as people can move freely between here and NI and British people can move freely within the EU then there is no point in limiting travel for Irish people within the EU. The Iraqi based outbreak in Sligo proves that.

well there is a point there but i agree, it would need to bee enforced

caveat emptor

gmisk wrote: »

The guardian is definitely not extreme left wing. In my experience it's stats can be relied on unlike other publications.

There is also a reason why the telegraph is known as the torygraph...there are extremely strong links between the papers editors and the conservative party hierarchy.

I'd second this. Their focus on data and visualisation is second to none. Our very own rte not in same league unfortunately. Look at the difference.

RTE (no point posting it. Confuses people, Dublin bad, country good)
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/summary/


Guardian (shows per capita shading) (some areas are much worse than others)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/30/coronavirus-uk-map-the-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases

seamus

deathbomber wrote: »

I too agree on the economic situation, we cannot afford another lockdown on the scale of what we done, also thee socio-economic related deaths will be huge, we just won't know to what extent for the next few years. Overall we ar in a helpless situation unless we help ourselves - mask up and don't travel outside Irland for holidays

There won't be another lockdown. Not only for the economic reasons, but because it won't be necessary.

If we start seeing a surge, we know what to do now. The public knows what to do. The health staff know what to do. The message will return to "stay local", and while there will be no legislation to back it up, people will be asked to go to work and then go home and stay there.

The lockdown was necessary to buy time. To get a grip on what we were dealing with, to get perspex up in ordinary shops. To figure out if masks made a difference, if social distancing made a difference, to see if isolating at-risk groups kept them safe. To get a testing regime in place, to rebuild stocks of PPE and sanitiser and basic every day essentials.

We have so much more information now than we did in March, and so many more resources. There are practically no shortages now of anything; masks, gloves, disinfectant, handwash, etc etc.

I know lots of people hate the war analogy, but lockdown was in essence a tactical retreat. Now we've regrouped and restocked ourselves, we are far more prepared for any future wave that might come at us.

gmisk

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Left Wing agenda.

Constantly dramatising bad aspects of the crisis with little focus on things that have gone well such as the constantly falling cases in western europe.

A clear agenda to politicise the crisis against Boris and the the Tories.

Or you know reporting on what has been a disasterous response from the Tories?
Do you think they have handled things well?
The comments on herd immunity... Dominic Cummings.... testing levels....stock of PPE...Johnson attending cobra meetings (or not)...lack of ventilators...money wasted on their own app, which they had to ditch...money wasted on tracing staff which are underutilized...

You can really take your pick.

Hurrache

CalamariFritti wrote: »

The fact you think this is an extreme view rather proves my point. Currently there is no room for discourse we're firmly in mass hysteria land.

Posts like that are best suited to the other ridiculous thread, but it's an oft seen way for people to disregard the opinions of people who are a bit more conservative as to the approach they take that go against your opinions, I mean how ridiculous is it to say "ordinary frightened people that have been brainwashed by the 24/7 fear inducing media."

gmisk

caveat emptor wrote: »

I'd second this. Their focus on data and visualisation is second to none. Our very own rte not in same league unfortunately. Look at the difference.

RTE (no point posting it. Confuses people, Dublin bad, country good)
https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/summary/


Guardian (shows per capita shading) (some areas are much worse than others)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/30/coronavirus-uk-map-the-latest-deaths-and-confirmed-covid-19-cases

That graphic from RTE is laughable ...you could do something better in about 5 minutes on power BI!

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

The one thing that media absolutely should do in a crisis - whether that be a war, pandemic or a natural disaster - is to scrutinise the official response and call out failure where it's seen.

There's a tendency to believe that in emergencies it should be all shoulders to the wheel, everyone get behind the leader, we're all in this together. But there's a massive danger that everyone will start pushing in the wrong direction.

It's absolutely essential that the response be criticised if it's going badly.

And it's going very badly for Boris, who is supported by the Tories. If you see this as "politicising" the crisis, then that's your sh1t.

I agree with your post, but how do you define 'going badly'? For example, you could have low Covid transmission rates but at the expense of other things such as the economy, health care, etc. I believe that here in Ireland we've seen too much in the way of uncritical support for the authorities and not enough critical analysis. i.e. good journalism.

seamus

gmisk wrote: »

That graphic from RTE is laughable ...you could do something better in about 5 minutes on power BI!

If you're interested, there's a proper map with a breakdown of cases by electoral division here: https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/

This data has been available for a couple of weeks, so there's no excuse for RTE still producing that ridiculous and useless map and calling it "cases in your area".

Beechwoodspark

Discussion of the Iraqi case in the north west on RTÉ at moment.

It has resulted in 20 plus contacts that have to be tested.

polesheep

deathbomber wrote: »

well there is a point there but i agree, it would need to bee enforced

There is no chance that there will be any limit placed on movement between us and NI, which is the reason why a ban on travel for Irish people within the EU is pointless.

Hurrache

polesheep wrote: »

I agree with your post, but how do you define 'going badly'?

Bottom of the world league for how its handled the virus would be a start.

CalamariFritti

Hurrache wrote: »

Posts like that are best suited to the other ridiculous thread, but it's an oft seen way for people to disregard the opinions of people who are a bit more conservative as to the approach they take that go against your opinions, I mean how ridiculous is it to say "ordinary frightened people that have been brainwashed by the 24/7 fear inducing media."

I am not disregarding anyone. What I am saying is that government & media did not allow for a sober approach and a fact based discourse.
We have been given the panic & fear treatment to a degree where no other opinion than the mainstream one is even allowed for consideration.

We have possibly overreacted quite a bit and now we are doubling down on that to justify our actions. So the fear campaign goes on.

wadacrack

https://covid19ireland-geohive.hub.arcgis.com/


Has been updated. 12 in ICU. 20 in hospital

seamus

polesheep wrote: »

I agree with your post, but how do you define 'going badly'? For example, you could have low Covid transmission rates but at the expense of other things such as the economy, health care, etc. I believe that here in Ireland we've seen too much in the way of uncritical support for the authorities and not enough critical analysis. i.e. good journalism.

We can only measure a response based on what is happening, not based on what may happen.

In a decade many countries may end up looking back and thinking that the complications brought on by the response ultimately call into question its necessity.

But that doesn't mean that the decisions taken were the wrong ones; that's entirely dependent on the information available at the time.

At this time, the only real metrics we can measure ourselves against are the ones charting the spread of the virus and the mortality level. Economic issues and the future health crisis on its way are not measurable at this point. Or at least haven't been measurable until this point; until we can pull some focus away from the virus and have a look at what's been left behind.

In terms of the UK, they've bought into the worst of all worlds. Poor control over virus spread and the economic damage from a lockdown.

I'm confident that in every assessment, present and future, the UK response to this crisis will be judged as a disaster. Here in Ireland we can at least say we had the best intentions, backed up by solid data and international guidance. The UK (or at least England), can't.

Jizique

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Discussion of the Iraqi case in the north west on RTÉ at moment.

It has resulted in 20 plus contacts that have to be tested.

Can anyone remind me when Iraq joined the EU?

gmisk

Jizique wrote: »

Can anyone remind me when Iraq joined the EU?

Not to blow your mind....but....people from outside of the EU....can live in the EU..

tom1ie

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Left Wing agenda.

Constantly dramatising bad aspects of the crisis with little focus on things that have gone well such as the constantly falling cases in western europe.

A clear agenda to politicise the crisis against Boris and the the Tories.

Wtf are you on about!!?

polesheep

seamus wrote: »

We can only measure a response based on what is happening, not based on what may happen.

In a decade many countries may end up looking back and thinking that the complications brought on by the response ultimately call into question its necessity.

But that doesn't mean that the decisions taken were the wrong ones; that's entirely dependent on the information available at the time.

At this time, the only real metrics we can measure ourselves against are the ones charting the spread of the virus and the mortality level. Economic issues and the future health crisis on its way are not measurable at this point. Or at least haven't been measurable until this point; until we can pull some focus away from the virus and have a look at what's been left behind.

In terms of the UK, they've bought into the worst of all worlds. Poor control over virus spread and the economic damage from a lockdown.

I'm confident that in every assessment, present and future, the UK response to this crisis will be judged as a disaster. Here in Ireland we can at least say we had the best intentions, backed up by solid data and international guidance. The UK (or at least England), can't.

I was interested in your points re the media, not who got it right or wrong. I wouldn't doubt the good intentions of the authorities here. It was, however, very evident from the start that there would be a price to pay and that a balance could/should have been struck between tackling Covid and maintaining other services e.g. healthcare. The fact that we got precious little, if any, discussion on this from our media is concerning.

Zonda999

What I dislike the most about the nature of the reporting in this country at this stage is that now that the numbers are very low, there is little or no emphasis on where the new cases are cropping up. A map showing the total number of cases in each given county now is now a bit useless in my opinion given we have been dealing with this thing for 4 months.

However, the data is there to be found if you go looking for it seeing as the daily briefing gives the confirmed numbers of cases per county per day. (Yesterdays is here: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/fe5b2-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-29-june/)

I've made a quick attachment showing the numbers for each county between Jun 9th and Jun 27th which is the latest data available.



As can be seen the vast majority of the increase in numbers is concentrated around greater Dublin.

Up to not so long ago,in the media reports the geographic spread of the virus was always mentioned but not any more. Now I assume the reasoning here is that they don't want people who are outside of greater Dublin to become complacent but it annoys given that the data is there if anyone goes looking for it, it just smacks to me of an attempt to "control the narrative" rather than giving people actual facts and allowing them to make their own conclusions

tom1ie

Zonda999 wrote: »

What I dislike the most about the nature of the reporting in this country at this stage is that now that the numbers are very low, there is little or no emphasis on where the new cases are cropping up. A map showing the total number of cases in each given county now is now a bit useless in my opinion given we have been dealing with this thing for 4 months.

However, the data is there to be found if you go looking for it seeing as the daily briefing gives the confirmed numbers of cases per county per day. (Yesterdays is here: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/fe5b2-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-29-june/)

I've made a quick attachment showing the numbers for each county between Jun 9th and Jun 27th which is the latest data available.



As can be seen the vast majority of the increase in numbers is concentrated around greater Dublin.

Up to not so long ago,in the media reports the geographic spread of the virus was always mentioned but not any more. Now I assume the reasoning here is that they don't want people who are outside of greater Dublin to become complacent but it annoys given that the data is there if anyone goes looking for it, it just smacks to me of an attempt to "control the narrative" rather than giving people actual facts and allowing them to make their own conclusions

Thanks for this.

polesheep

Zonda999 wrote: »

What I dislike the most about the nature of the reporting in this country at this stage is that now that the numbers are very low, there is little or no emphasis on where the new cases are cropping up. A map showing the total number of cases in each given county now is now a bit useless in my opinion given we have been dealing with this thing for 4 months.

However, the data is there to be found if you go looking for it seeing as the daily briefing gives the confirmed numbers of cases per county per day. (Yesterdays is here: https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/fe5b2-statement-from-the-national-public-health-emergency-team-monday-29-june/)

I've made a quick attachment showing the numbers for each county between Jun 9th and Jun 27th which is the latest data available.



As can be seen the vast majority of the increase in numbers is concentrated around greater Dublin.

Up to not so long ago,in the media reports the geographic spread of the virus was always mentioned but not any more. Now I assume the reasoning here is that they don't want people who are outside of greater Dublin to become complacent but it annoys given that the data is there if anyone goes looking for it, it just smacks to me of an attempt to "control the narrative" rather than giving people actual facts and allowing them to make their own conclusions

There was a plan to control the narrative from day one and I suppose that was to be expected. What shouldn't have happened, but did, was that the media were on board with controlling the narrative rather than questioning it.

tom1ie

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Maybe read the posts to see?

Anyway to save you the trouble.

For some reason many Irish people seem to use the Guardian newspaper as a source of news.

the way they report Covid is extremely left wing.

So are you a covid denier or something?
Do you think covid is a hoax?
I take it you don’t agree that international travel should be banned from Ireland?

caveat emptor

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Exactly.

Well said.

As someone with so called right wing views thouh I would point out it's not the economy I worry about more the mental health and social impacts of continued strict restrictions and over dramatising the crisis.

So you are concerned about the left and the right as opposed to the right and the wrong. The UK adopted a quasi herd immunity strategy / keep everything open. They are paying for not heeding the warnings. I wouldn't be surprised if they came back stronger the other way with any future waves.

I get that you are worried about the mental health and social impacts of continued strict restrictions. What about the physical health of people who contract this and we don't really no the long term effects (if any). What about the mental health of the health care workers that have to go through that hell depicted on RTE.

No probs reopening / going to the pub / going to a restaurant / going on holiday.
If it is safe to do so. I don't know that it is at the moment. I know it's statistically unlikely though. There are plenty of people who are unlucky in life though for whom no thought is given. Rare diseases / financial misfortune / the list goes on. They are chalked up for the greater good. I don't want to be in that column.

is_that_so

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Maybe read the posts to see?

Anyway to save you the trouble.

For some reason many Irish people seem to use the Guardian newspaper as a source of news.

the way they report Covid is extremely left wing.

How exactly does one report 42,000 new US cases in an extremely left wing manner?

Rob A. Bank

Zonda999 wrote: »

As can be seen the vast majority of the increase in numbers is concentrated around greater Dublin.

The UK re-imposed the lockdown on the city of Leicester because they had 10% of the UK cases in the last few weeks.

The greater Dublin area contributes and has contributed far more than 10% of the cases here.

Perhaps a prolonged lockdown is needed there, until such time as they can get their act together and suppress this effing virus.

gmisk

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

No to your first question.

No to your second.

No to your third.

Maybe read the thread and see what I have posted instead of filling it up with pointless questions far removed from anything I posted or any views I have.

Speaking of questions do you want to come back to me RE the below?
You can say the guardian is extremely left wing (I would disagree) but facts are facts, I would argue they present the facts in general on a fairly clear manner.


They are you know maybe reporting on what has been a disasterous response from the Tories?

Do you think they have handled things well?

The comments on herd immunity... Dominic Cummings.... testing levels....stock of PPE...Johnson attending cobra meetings (or not)...lack of ventilators...money wasted on their own app, which they had to ditch...money wasted on tracing staff which are underutilized...

tom1ie

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Ridiculous question.

It's the general tone of the reporting.

Interesting that it seems to be where Kermit the Frog gets all his updates.

The general tone?
How exactly would you like 42000 cases of a killer virus be reported?

Rob A. Bank

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

As someone with so called right wing views thouh I would point out it's not the economy I worry about more the mental health and social impacts of continued strict restrictions and over dramatising the crisis.

The virus does not give a sh*t if you are left wing, right wing or if you cannot fly.

The 'mental health and social impacts' are not of much relevance if you are in a bodybag on the way to the morgue.

Politicizing the necessary public health measures is one fantastic way to help the virus spread, just look at USA or Brazil.

Lastly... the politics boards are this way

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>

tom1ie

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

No they have been terrible.

I'm not suggesting the Guardian reporting is wrong just pointing out that many seem to be using it as a news source and may not be aware of it's political leaning given it is a British paper.

In my opinion some of their worldwide coverage has been too over the top and too focused on fearmongering.

It’s a dangerous virus that threatens to swamp health services worldwide which will lead to more loss of life, yet you want the rhetoric toned down?

gmisk

mentalhealth20 wrote: »

Ridiculous question.

It's the general tone of the reporting.

Interesting that it seems to be where Kermit the Frog gets all his updates.

So you don't like the "tone" of reporting.
Your sounding a bit like Matt Hancock....