How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

They can decide their own approach to coronavirus and might impose restrictions on the border now Ireland has a higher infection rate than the UK.

Which border...the land one or the one in the Irish sea imposed by Westminister against the wishes of the marjority unionist parties?

Valiant Rob, valiant...but the truth is, when it comes down to it, the devolved regions tow the Westminster line if they are told to...a Westminster controlled by England.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which border...the land one or the one in the Irish sea imposed by Westminister against the wishes of the marjority unionist parties?

Valiant Rob, valiant...but the truth is, when it comes down to it, the devolved regions tow the Westminster line if they are told to...a Westminster controlled by England.

Classic 'look over there' tactics francie,you're obviously on the ropes.

jm08

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Interment started & ended when.
NI Troubles, early 70s?

I think It was (wrongly used) as a blunt tool used at the time in the face of extreme terrorism on the streets of Northern Ireland. Car bombs going off every other day, firebombs, petrol bombs, people being shot as they opened their hall door, policemen being attacked in their homes, booby trap bombs, knee cappings galore, teenagers being tarred & feathered & shot....

The place had gone mad (in some areas), so internment was brought in as a blunt weapon against the mayhem I suspect? Not saying it was a good decision, just suggesting from their perspective why they brought it in.

There were no car bombs going off in 1971 when it was decided to introduce internment without trial. The PIRA hardly existed.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Classic 'look over there' tactics francie,you're obviously on the ropes.

Look over there?

It is a fairly striking example of how the devolved entitiies have no power when it comes to something they consider important. Ask Arlene and the DUP how they feel about it right now.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

There were no car bombs going off in 1971 when it was decided to introduce internment without trial. The PIRA hardly existed.

Exactly...'internment' because it was a one sided 'solution' deepened the division and exacerbated and intensified the violence.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Exactly...'internment' because it was a one sided 'solution' deepened the division and exacerbated and intensified the violence.

My suspicions that Hamsterchops has never actually had a proper conversation with anyone from the North are deepening.

I'd suggest a basic reading of the Troubles timeline to Hamsterchops before he positions himself as an expert to people who actually lived through it...

jh79

So what's likely to happen with this 100 year celebration? Will MON have to be part of it as 1st Minister?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

So what's likely to happen with this 100 year celebration? Will MON have to be part of it as 1st Minister?

Quite a good opportunity to have a look at what we are supposed to be celebrating.
As a nationalist what would you propose that they celebrate?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Quite a good opportunity to have a look at what we are supposed to be celebrating.
As a nationalist what would you propose that they celebrate?

No idea. Seems a bad idea but it's happening by the looks of it. Would MON be obliged to attend events as 1st minister?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

No idea. Seems a bad idea but it's happening by the looks of it. Would MON be obliged to attend events as 1st minister?

No idea.

RobMc59

jh79 wrote: »

No idea. Seems a bad idea but it's happening by the looks of it. Would MON be obliged to attend events as 1st minister?

Probably as she's in the pay of the crown.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Probably as she's in the pay of the crown.

Who pays the 'crown'?
'Rob' might an operative word in your answer...wink wink nudge nudge.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who pays the 'crown'?
'Rob' might an operative word in your answer...wink wink nudge nudge.

Amazing how a family of generationally unemployed can manage to, 'pay' so many people....

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Amazing how a family of generationally unemployed can manage to, 'pay' so many people....

Amazing that somebody thinks the money is magiced out od thin air and not taxes of the working man and woman.
You gotta love the monarchists waiting for the benevolence of the superior one. Oh to be on your knees so long you don't realise it.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who pays the 'crown'?
'Rob' might an operative word in your answer...wink wink nudge nudge.

As 1st minister though she does also represent those who wish to celebrate the centenary.

Will be controversy whatever choice she makes.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who pays the 'crown'?
'Rob' might an operative word in your answer...wink wink nudge nudge.

I wonder if MON took the oath of allegiance?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Amazing that somebody thinks the money is magiced out od thin air and not taxes of the working man and woman.
You gotta love the monarchists waiting for the benevolence of the superior one. Oh to be on your knees so long you don't realise it.

I've made similar comments about SF. Where exactly is the money for a UI gonna come from?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I've made similar comments about SF. Where exactly is the money for a UI gonna come from?

Why is it up to SF to pay for a UI?

We constitutionally aspire to a UI. If the opportunity presents itself it is up to all of us to find a way.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why is it up to SF to pay for a UI?

We constitutionally aspire to a UI. If the opportunity presents itself it is up to all of us to find a way.

I was referring to SF seeming to think that money can be magicked up out of thin air.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I wonder if MON took the oath of allegiance?

A bit of basic research would clarify that for you, Rob. The Northern Ireland Assembly are not required to take an Oath of Allegiance....in fact, there isn't even a voluntary oath for them to take should they wish to.

Ten seconds with Google could've put an end to your musings (if they were in any way genuine rather than an attempted jibe from a position of ignorance...)

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I was referring to SF seeming to think that money can be magicked up out of thin air.

Where have they said this?

BonnieSituation

I had a lovely fortnight off this thread sunning myself amongst the beauty of Co Sligo. You should check out the rest of your country DC, it's not that far from Fermanagh

But yeah, this place was hopping there the last few days with new posts I saw, and I was really interested to see what had gotten the masses excited.

Anyway, on posts that I seemed to have failed to reply to from my last visit:

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

@ Bonniesituation I think you missed the hyphen / stroke in your rush to castigate me with your outrage. There is a reason Londonderry/Derry is called 'stroke city'. I supposed if I used that term you would find offence as well. A classic case of your prejudice/bias blinding you. And you getting outraged over nothing.
Plus you ironically mention faux outrage! If you watched the Shane Paul Doherty video, you would understand why I used two names.
:eek:

I missed nothing. There's a simple fact that no-one really says Londonderry except insecure loyalists when in earshot of a Taig, Gregory Campbell and the BBC and UTV News. That it "naturally rolls off the tongue" as DC would have you believe is laughable.

I have no issue with the name per se, but it's used as another part of the otherism of Nationalists, which is something you are becoming a dab hand at.

It's not important really, but your need to kowtow to belligerent Unionism is grating.

Yeah_Right wrote: »

It does seem to be a standard technique of the belligerent republicans on here. If they don't like your point of view, you get told to butt out. Or you're anti-democratic. I told to shut up because I'm a foreigner so I clearly know nothing about Ireland and "real" Irish people :rolleyes:

I'm assuming you have no issue with belligerent loyalists then? Also, where's the belligerent Republicans on here?

You and others seem to think that Nationalism is an invalid political viewpoint for residents of NI to have much less those South of the border. I don't expect someone like yourself to understand it, but the othering of people is what brought us the two Civil Wars we had in Ireland in the 20th century.


---


I guess I'll go and read the almost next two weeks worth of posts after these and see what's what.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

A bit of basic research would clarify that for you, Rob. The Northern Ireland Assembly are not required to take an Oath of Allegiance....in fact, there isn't even a voluntary oath for them to take should they wish to.

Ten seconds with Google could've put an end to your musings (if they were in any way genuine rather than an attempted jibe from a position of ignorance...)

Thank you I was unaware of that.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Thank you I was unaware of that.

It's no problem at all. I'm aware you're not a resident and may be unaware of some of the minutiae, so I'm happy to treat it as an honest question, Rob.

It is (part) of the reason SF will take their seats in Stormont but not Westminster (or part of how they justify it, depending on how cynical you wish to be). There's more to it than just that, but the likes of Wikipedia or I'm sure SF's own website would explain the whys and what's of their abstentionism better than I would.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

And free gaffs for all with no evictions. Increased social and PS pay. All the expensive populist stuff.

I think it's best to leave discussions on social housing to those who know what they are talking about it.

The idea that all the ills of the world are caused by local authority supplied housing is laughable.

Do you know who housed the Irish people in the 30s and 40s?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Wishful thinking
I was listening to David Trimble interviewed after John Hume's death- you can pick it up on Nolan on the day of his death on BBC iPlayer.
Nolan was affirming John Hume for bringing Sinn Fein along.
Trimble said he disagreed and was incredibly clear of two things in response.
1) Sinn Fein had exploited John Hume
2) Sinn Fein and the IRA had reached a point of realising that they could not achieve their ends. He said they were so heavily infiltrated that the vast majority of their cells could not operate.
Yes of course I know you will say they pulled off a spectacular in Manchester and maybe one or two others, but it was over, they were defeated, Manchester was the final kicks of a dying ruthless animal.
Everyone, except a few old Republicans in dingy bars with several pints taken, realise that they were defeated. They used the John Hume initiative to try and save a little face.

You can say as many times as you like that the Unionists lost, but we have got absolutely everything that we had 25 years ago, and you have got absolutely nothing that you and the IRA aspired towards.

Yes you can continue to aspire, and try to lift your self esteem, by trying to convince yourselves that you were in control the process. John Hume was very intelligent and realised that you were defeated but that you needed some sort of face-saving exercise. He didn't get you very much but then he didn't need to because beggars cannot be choosers

There's revisionism and there's revisionism.

So you and David are saying that Hume was naive?

I wonder if Trimble thought that loyalism used him at Drumcree and that acted as the beginning of the end of the UUP.

See, this can work both ways.

Have you any thoughts on Hume yourself?

BonnieSituation

outonawing wrote: »

It's certainly a better place than it was in the 70's, 80's or 90's and is heading only in one direction......out of the EU.

It left the EU on 31st January 2020 though. Did you miss that?

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

Is there a full transcript of the judgement floating around? Just find it hard to believe that SF or Unionists have not made a bigger deal out of this.

Does it not completely undermine the GFA that one country has the ability to veto the will of the people without having to give any justification?

Here ya go... That's the summary.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where have they said this?

Manifesto , the elite will pay for it all eg apple tax. They are some how going to give free housing, increase social welfare increase PS pay and give some relief to the squeezed middle by taxing the tiny % who earn silly money.

And you reckon the EU and the UK and the US will pay for a UI cause we are a great bunch of lads. Fantasy stuff.


Were SF a fan of the Corrib Oil nonsense a few years back? Think they were.

jh79

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Here ya go... That's the summary.

I found it in the end. Yeah not a great look for those claiming the UK made a "tacit withdrawal" or the IRA didn't surrender.

The fate of NI is dependant on the subjective view of the British establishment not the people.