How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Oh, nice try Bonnie

Just because I supported the SDLP (and not the Provos) doesn't make that so, does it.

So you do think that Nationalism is a valid aspiration?

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

Creationism is an aspect of the Protestant religion. His beliefs were being denigrated too. I wasn't defending Poots just highlighting hypocrisy.

I was denigrating him as the bigot that he is.

You were the one who brought up transubstantiation and brought religion into it.

It was obvious. Well, it was obvious to those of us who don't blindly defend Unionist bigots.

Truthvader

BloodyBill wrote: »

Haha a go away out of it. The Sinn Fein bots were due a good overheating episode and MM provided it. Its great. I think unification should be off the table and it is. The majority dont want it. I think if it does come up the people North and South and the people in the UK as a whole should have a vote on it. Let the people of these Islands decide.
Are you going to start telling me how devout my Catholicism is?.I dont think you have the credentials.

In that case we have a United Ireland in the morning as the 66 million in the UK cant wait to be shut of the place so that they don't have to listen to the likes of Arlene and Michelle grinding on forever with their stupid tribal squabble - and pay for it

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

Creation "science" and Climate denial both come from the Protestant religion.

A very touchy subject for you it seems. Fair play to you for trying to defend Poots' honour, or what little of it he has.

Aren't there lots of different strands of Protestantism with very few being as fundamentalist as Free Presbyterianism?

jh79

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I was denigrating him as the bigot that he is.

You were the one who brought up transubstantiation and brought religion into it.

It was obvious. Well, it was obvious to those of us who don't blindly defend Unionist bigots.

Bringing creationism into it was bringing his religion into it and i was pointing out that Catholicism has equally stupid aspects to it.

Could you point out when i have "blindly defend unionist bigots"?

jh79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

A very touchy subject for you it seems. Fair play to you for trying to defend Poots' honour, or what little of it he has.

Aren't there lots of different strands of Protestantism with very few being as fundamentalist as Free Presbyterianism?

Where have i defended his honour?

The fuss here says more about ye to be honest. Slagging the protestant religion is ok by ye but leave the catholics alone.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

Bringing creationism into it was bringing his religion into it and i was pointing out that Catholicism has equally stupid aspects to it.

Could you point out when i have "blindly defend unionist bigots"?

You did it then when you tried your "look at themmuns everyone" schtick.

If you bothered to read the thread, any post I made was denigrating anyone who take certain religious teachings literally.

That you still can't see it and are continuing with this facade, shows you are blindly defending him.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

Where have i defended his honour?

The fuss here says more about ye to be honest. Slagging the protestant religion is ok by ye but leave the catholics alone.

No one slagged Protestantism. In fact, you're the only one making sweeping statements about religion.

What happened was someone denigrated a man who is a bigot, who happens to be a Free Presbyterian and you rode in here on your white horse to save him.

BonnieSituation

Pogue eile wrote: »

Yes, you really are underestimating the stupidity of the DUP - Poots is a man who believes that the world is 6,000 years old - this is but one of many examples of his 'intelligence'

jh79 wrote: »

In fairness the other side believes in "virgin birth" and that the wafer turns to flesh when you eat it!

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I don't think the "other side", as you so delightfully call Catholics, believe that literally.

Poots is a creationist, he believes that literally.

Amazing how you've managed to somehow denigrate Catholicism in defence of a belligerent bigoted Unionist.

So unlike you.

Pogue eile wrote: »

I must have missed that press conference, which leading politician from 'the other side' has held press conferences on these matters.

Anyway to get back to the original question, Poots is a complete nutter, as I said he has repeatedly stated that the earth is only 6000 years old and continues to defend this position, but then in the next breath he denies Climate Change is real and quotes the ice-age as an example of how these things are merely cyclical - when was the Ice Age Mr. Poots :D:D

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I mean... what?

Why are Catholics sending their children forward to take Catholic sacraments?

Do you think that most Catholics, and I can only speak from my own experiences, believe that the the Bible is to be interpreted literally and that all of its symbolism, while from the POV of the Church itself should be lapped up literally, is in fact taken as a representative and notional idea?

But of course, lets ignore Poots and his LITERAL acceptance of the bible. Because that's okay and let's look at themmuns over there who take bread thinking it's Jesus and think that Mary didn't get the ride.

I know lots of RC, COI and Methodists and not one of them has ever alluded to their religious teachings as to be something to be taken literally .


Anyway, back to the topic at hand which is a unionist being a bigot and which you seem to be defending...


I'm glad you're happy to accept Poots and his acceptance of the world being 6000 years old is perfectly okay.

Just in case you missed how this all went down there JH my good man.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Where have i defended his honour?

The fuss here says more about ye to be honest. Slagging the protestant religion is ok by ye but leave the catholics alone.

I don't slag Poots religious fundementalism I proudly and vehemently oppose him using it to legislate in any shape or form. He can believe whatever he wants in his church and home, but he should not be imposing his religious beliefs on anybody else. And he does, as do the DUP.

Hqrry113

There's hardly ever support for an Ireland free from British rule in peace time, there was no support before 1916 and there was no support before 1969, in the 70s most polls would show 90 percent of people in the republic wanting complete immediate unilateral withdrawal from Northern Ireland and around 25 percent of people in the republic supporting the IRA.

BonnieSituation

Ah yes, we should govern ourselves on the basis of figurative polls from the 1970s. Good hustle there Harry.

Hamsterchops

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you do think that Nationalism is a valid aspiration?

Why wouldn't it be

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for doesn't alter the fact that Nationalism is a valid aspiration.

Hqrry113

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for doesn't alter the fact that Nationalism is a valid aspiration.

You say you hate everything the provos stood for as in a United Ireland, an end to the British presence in Ireland and.equal rights for Catholics?

Hobgoblin11

How long before Irish reunification?
2050 is the year

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Why wouldn't it be

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for doesn't alter the fact that Nationalism is a valid aspiration.

I had to ask,because you go on about Nationalists wanting to "take NI from Britain" all the time.

It's a slightly ironic and weird stance. Just thought I'd check in.

Dickie10

A topic I would like to know more about is the subject of southern Irish unionists they were common enough in some parts around 1916 . What silenced them so much , where did they disappear too.

BonnieSituation

Dickie10 wrote: »

A topic I would like to know more about is the subject of southern Irish unionists they were common enough in some parts around 1916 . What silenced them so much , where did they disappear too.

They weren't silenced.

Give Crisis and Decline: The Fate of the Southern Unionists by Robert Brendan McDowell a bash.

And anything by Susan McKay really that will give a Southern sheen to Unionism.

Dickie10

were they usurped into the wider Fine Gael family? anybody know any sounthern unionist strongholds still? would DunLaoighre be one, what about Laois/Offaly do they still hold any plantation allegiance to Britain, i know theres a lot of Protestants in that area.

Pogue eile

Dickie10 wrote: »

were they usurped into the wider Fine Gael family? anybody know any sounthern unionist strongholds still? would DunLaoighre be one, what about Laois/Offaly do they still hold any plantation allegiance to Britain, i know theres a lot of Protestants in that area.

Laois was formerly known as Queens County and Kildare was known as Kings County, that's a long time ago and I certainly wouldn't refer to either as a unionist stronghold - there is a very big difference between a protestant and a Unionist.

Mules

jh79 wrote: »

In fairness the other side believes in "virgin birth" and that the wafer turns to flesh when you eat it!

Protestants also believe in the virgin birth, they just don't venerate Mary.

jh79

Mules wrote: »

Protestants also believe in the virgin birth, they just don't venerate Mary.

Always thought that was one of the key differences. So is it just transubstantiation that they differ on?

Mules

jh79 wrote: »

Always thought that was one of the key differences. So is it just transubstantiation that they differ on?

Yes.

Hamsterchops

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I had to ask,because you go on about Nationalists wanting to "take NI from Britain" all the time.

It's a slightly ironic and weird stance. Just thought I'd check in.

You should pay Specsavers a visit.

I never said that Nationalists wanted to "take NI from Britain", but what I have said is that I didn't agree with violent Irish Republicanism trying to extract Northern Ireland from the UK by murder and mayhem. Hence my preference for the SDLP who never supported the murder of anyone

I also think it's a total waste of time for SF to keep banging in about a "Border Poll" in the middle of Brexit knowing that it would be very divisive and damaging. Yes by all means have a border poll when Nationalists have a chance of winning, but not right now.

You may check in or check out anytime

Hqrry113

Hamsterchops wrote: »

You should pay Specsavers a visit.

I never said that Nationalists wanted to "take NI from Britain", but what I have said is that I didn't agree with violent Irish Republicanism trying to extract Northern Ireland from the UK by murder and mayhem. Hence my preference for the SDLP who never supported the murder of anyone

I also think it's a total waste of time for SF to keep banging in about a "Border Poll" in the middle of Brexit knowing that it would be very divisive and damaging. Yes by all means have a border poll when Nationalists have a chance of winning, but not right now.

You may check in or check out anytime

Yes the SDLP, otherwise known as a pack of cowards who would go into Westminster and beg for their rights and in the early 70s when ira members were dying trying to defend their communities from attack SDLP members would run down to the RUC station begging for help that never came.

BonnieSituation

Pogue eile wrote: »

Laois was formerly known as Queens County and Kildare was known as Kings County, that's a long time ago and I certainly wouldn't refer to either as a unionist stronghold - there is a very big difference between a protestant and a Unionist.

Offaly was Kings County. And in addition to that Port Laoise was Maryborough and Daingean was Philipstown.

Hqrry113

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Offaly was Kings County. And in addition to that Port Laoise was Maryborough and Daingean was Philipstown.

Ulster actually used to be the most rrebellious part of Ireland, mainly lived free from British rule hence why the plantations mainly happened there.

BonnieSituation

Dickie10 wrote: »

were they usurped into the wider Fine Gael family? anybody know any sounthern unionist strongholds still? would DunLaoighre be one, what about Laois/Offaly do they still hold any plantation allegiance to Britain, i know theres a lot of Protestants in that area.

It's a difficult one to discern. The idea of Unionism as we know it now is Ulster Unionism and essentially a different beast to the Irish Unionism that existed at the turn of the last century.

You also have to remember that the sectarian bent to politics wasn't as clear cut as it is now.

You would have had Catholic cultural unionists in Dublin given the nature of the city and they didn't see the point to independence, so their Unionism was due to inertia more than a strong political ideal. You had agitation from formerly (descended) protestant ascendancy types who would have been more vocal about their Irish Nationalism.

Again, just one of the microcosms that existed in the "South" as it was.

Irish history is as grey as anything so I would always be careful to not apply today's accepted definitions to yesterday.

Hamsterchops

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Yes the SDLP, otherwise known as a pack of cowards who would go into Westminster and beg for their rights and in the early 70s when ira members were dying trying to defend their communities from attack SDLP members would run down to the RUC station begging for help that never came.

Another wannabe revolutionary nutter :rolleyes:

Grow a pair, and learn that violent Irish Republicanism as practised by the PIRA gained noting but death and sorrow and division, they & their followers were scum of the highest order. Contrast their ideals with the late great John Hume and the SDLP, who strived for equal rights for Nationalists in NI without the need to blow people to bits.

FrancieBrady

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Another wannabe revolutionary nutter :rolleyes:

Grow a pair, and learn that violent Irish Republicanism as practised by the PIRA gained noting but death and sorrow and division, they & their followers were scum of the highest order. Contrast their ideals with the late great John Hume and the SDLP, who strived for equal rights for Nationalists in NI without the need to blow people to bits.

Hume and Mallon were political failures until Hume (Mallon rejected the opportunity) took up Fr. Alex Reid's suggestion/invitation to begin talks with Adams.