How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Another wannabe revolutionary nutter :rolleyes:

Grow a pair, and learn that violent Irish Republicanism as practised by the PIRA gained noting but death and sorrow and division, they & their followers were scum of the highest order. Contrast their ideals with the late great John Hume and the SDLP, who strived for equal rights for Nationalists in NI without the need to blow people to bits.

That's not very nice and is a very violent way to debate a point.

Best to practice what preach, non?

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hume and Mallon were political failures until Hume (Mallon rejected the opportunity) took up Fr. Alex Reid's suggestion/invitation to begin talks with Adams.

Don't utter that name Mallon in the same breath as Hume. Failure is too kind a word.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Don't utter that name Mallon in the same breath as Hume. Failure is too kind a word.

The SDLP forced Hume to do a solo run on the Hume Adams Initiative.
When the partitionists weep for the demise of the SDLP it never occurs to them that the people of the north didn't have their heads buried in the sand. They could see what was happening. They could see the cowardice and political protectionism that was going on.

Mallon ended up a very bitter man.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The SDLP forced Hume to do a solo run on the Hume Adams Initiative.
When the partitionists weep for the demise of the SDLP it never occurs to them that the people of the north didn't have their heads buried in the sand. They could see what was happening. They could see the cowardice and political protectionism that was going on.

Mallon ended up a very bitter man.

We all would end up bitter if we ended our days living in Markethill.

Hqrry113

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Another wannabe revolutionary nutter :rolleyes:

Grow a pair, and learn that violent Irish Republicanism as practised by the PIRA gained noting but death and sorrow and division, they & their followers were scum of the highest order. Contrast their ideals with the late great John Hume and the SDLP, who strived for equal rights for Nationalists in NI without the need to blow people to bits.

It was the IRA who were giving the SDLP leverage, they were the only reason Hume had any negotiating power whatsoever especially in the early 70s.

If what you said is correct that the "PIRA" never achieved anything at the very least they saved the Irish some pride that we will not just be slapped around like a bunch of thick paddies and keep our mouths shut like Hume and his fellow clowns marching in the early 70s and late 60s getting their heads smashed in by the army for no reason at all and running full sprint back to their homes and then afterwards still going on about "peace".

It was very easy for Hume and the SDLP to "fight" for equal rights while he was under no threat whatsoever unlike SF members where dozens of SF members were assassinated and countless numbers of their family members were being assasinated by MI5/loyalist groups or being randomly shot walking down the road by the army by "accident".

Hamsterchops

Hqrry113 wrote: »

If what you said is correct that the "PIRA" never achieved anything at the very least they saved the Irish some pride.......

Pride you say, where do you get this stuff from?

The reality being that the Republican movement brought nothing but shame on this island and the Irish people. Shame not pride.

Hqrry113

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Pride you say, where do you get this stuff from?

The reality being that the Republican movement brought nothing but shame on this island and the Irish people. Shame not pride.

I'd find more shame in knowing the Irish were too scared to fight back against the atrocities and injustices of the British state in the early days of the troubles, maybe you would find some pride in John Hume on his knees in Westminster begging for rights, I seen a video on YouTube not long ago of John Hume in westminster talking about injustices and the whole place was laughing at him, he was an absolute joke I'll get the video up and post it on here and see if anyone takes pride in this clown rambling on about injustices while the whole of Westminster were laughing at him.

One things for certain they weren't laughing at the IRA or Gerry.

The SDLP were barely ahead of SF even with the intelligence agencies and the British government all pushing propaganda campaigns to make sure the SDLP win the Catholic vote.

Hamsterchops

I'll tell you one thing for sure. Terrorism has not created a United Ireland, and how could it ....

Blowing up and killing the very people you wish to unite with could only have one effect, and that was to delay any "Unification" by many decades. The Provisional IRA were the No 1 culprits. They brought nothing but sorrow and death to this island, and they were a disgrace. So worship your heroes if that's what you do, but don't expect the rest of us to honour the memory of Terrorism.

eire4

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I'll tell you one thing for sure. Terrorism has not created a United Ireland, and how could it ....

Blowing up and killing the very people you wish to unite with could only have one effect, and that was to delay any "Unification" by many decades. The Provisional IRA were the No 1 culprits. They brought nothing but sorrow and death to this island, and they were a disgrace. So worship your heroes if that's what you do, but don't expect the rest of us to honour the memory of Terrorism.

I would suggest to you that you keep the use of "the rest of us" out of things. Your opinions are just that your opinions. You certainly do not speak for everyone else although there are no doubt others like yourself who like to push their own agenda and blame everything on the IRA because it is all about that agenda. I like many other Irish people are revolted and disgusted by terrorism. I like many other Irish people though recognise that the British security forces be they the various state or local forces were every bit the shameful disgusting terrorists themselves. There sadly is plenty of blame to go around for the war and the thousands who died.

Hqrry113

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I'll tell you one thing for sure. Terrorism has not created a United Ireland, and how could it ....

Blowing up and killing the very people you wish to unite with could only have one effect, and that was to delay any "Unification" by many decades. The Provisional IRA were the No 1 culprits. They brought nothing but sorrow and death to this island, and they were a disgrace. So worship your heroes if that's what you do, but don't expect the rest of us to honour the memory of Terrorism.

Terrorism may not have created a United Ireland but it created a 26 county Ireland.

downcow

Hqrry113 wrote: »

Yes the SDLP, otherwise known as a pack of cowards who would go into Westminster and beg for their rights and in the early 70s when ira members were dying trying to defend their communities from attack SDLP members would run down to the RUC station begging for help that never came.

Oh dear oh dear. In the 70s in my area the ira were systematically attacking every Protestant home and business simply because they didn’t want a Protestant about the place. You are so deluded

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

Oh dear oh dear. In the 70s in my area the ira were systematically attacking every Protestant home and business simply because they didn’t want a Protestant about the place. You are so deluded

Another anecdotal story in a pathetic attempt to prove a point.

FrancieBrady

eire4 wrote: »

I would suggest to you that you keep the use of "the rest of us" out of things. Your opinions are just that your opinions. You certainly do not speak for everyone else although there are no doubt others like yourself who like to push their own agenda and blame everything on the IRA because it is all about that agenda. I like many other Irish people are revolted and disgusted by terrorism. I like many other Irish people though recognise that the British security forces be they the various state or local forces were every bit the shameful disgusting terrorists themselves. There sadly is plenty of blame to go around for the war and the thousands who died.

No doubt another who thinks that everything would have been fine if only the IRA didn't exist.
The IRA were only a symptom of a totally failed partition and the state that emerged.

eire4

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No doubt another who thinks that everything would have been fine if only the IRA didn't exist.
The IRA were only a symptom of a totally failed partition and the state that emerged.

I think your actually being generous there. That would suggest wilful or genuine ignorance. When I would say pushing an agenda and being disingenuous seems more on the mark IMHO.

The creation of an apartheid regime created the conditions for the violence that was the actual disease itself not just partition but the creation of an apartheid regime after partition.

Hamsterchops

For far too long the IRA in one form or another has haunted this island like a virus or a cancer, by using terrorism and death as a way to achieve its goal of total and utter seperation from the neighboring island.

The only way a "United Ireland" is ever going to happen is if more Nationalists vote to leave the Union with Britain, and currently s substantial amount of Northern Nationalists vote to maintain NI'i place within the United Kingdom.

Hearts & minds up North may change post Brexit, specially if Scotland votes to leave the UK, but in the meantime, may I suggest that Republican posters on here stop hero worshipping the perpetrators of the past atrocities committed on this island by their comrades in the name of Ireland..

We would like a United Ireland yes, but by consensus and agreement, and not by hate and division.

Dickie10

Should we honour people like Micheal Collins or eamon de valera or arthur griffith for bringing violence to the streets of our towns and cities then? what was the difference between the IRA 1920 and 1980, did the IRA not kill innocent RIC men , British soldiers and ordinary citizens they thought had links to the British state, which was the proper legal state. Personally i believe their was very little if any need for 1916 madness. we would have had Home Rule by the early 1920s anyway without any bloodshed, we may even have brought Ulster with us so a United Ireland what did it matter if it were a part of the Commonwealth like Australia, what we have missed out on?

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I'll tell you one thing for sure. Terrorism has not created a United Ireland, and how could it ....

Blowing up and killing the very people you wish to unite with could only have one effect, and that was to delay any "Unification" by many decades. The Provisional IRA were the No 1 culprits. They brought nothing but sorrow and death to this island, and they were a disgrace. So worship your heroes if that's what you do, but don't expect the rest of us to honour the memory of Terrorism.

Hot take.

Did you know that terrorism created Partition?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Oh dear oh dear. In the 70s in my area the ira were systematically attacking every Protestant home and business simply because they didn’t want a Protestant about the place. You are so deluded

What area was that DC?

BonnieSituation

Hamsterchops wrote: »

For far too long the IRA in one form or another has haunted this island like a virus or a cancer, by using terrorism and death as a way to achieve its goal of total and utter seperation from the neighboring island.

The only way a "United Ireland" is ever going to happen is if more Nationalists vote to leave the Union with Britain, and currently s substantial amount of Northern Nationalists vote to maintain NI'i place within the United Kingdom.

Hearts & minds up North may change post Brexit, specially if Scotland votes to leave the UK, but in the meantime, may I suggest that Republican posters on here stop hero worshipping the perpetrators of the past atrocities committed on this island by their comrades in the name of Ireland..

We would like a United Ireland yes, but by consensus and agreement, and not by hate and division.

So not only are you speaking for all Free Staters, now you're taking on the mantle as spokesperson as for Nationalists in Fermanagh, Antrim, Tyrone, Derry, Armagh and Down?

Good of ya.

BonnieSituation

Dickie10 wrote: »

Should we honour people like Micheal Collins or eamon de valera or arthur griffith for bringing violence to the streets of our towns and cities then? what was the difference between the IRA 1920 and 1980, did the IRA not kill innocent RIC men , British soldiers and ordinary citizens they thought had links to the British state, which was the proper legal state. Personally i believe their was very little if any need for 1916 madness. we would have had Home Rule by the early 1920s anyway without any bloodshed, we may even have brought Ulster with us so a United Ireland what did it matter if it were a part of the Commonwealth like Australia, what we have missed out on?

Well, I wouldn't honour Dev in any fashion. There's a reason that he still remains a reviled figure. The Lynch of his day.

Griffith, Collins, Grattan, Emmet, Redmond, Parnell, Markievicz and O'Connell on the other hand, venerate away.

There's not enough named for them.

---

What always angers me is the battle for Home Rule, that kills Griffith and Redmond (and his legacy) and sets off a civil war and a couple of rebellions that we still are dealing with today, is exactly what the Statelet got as a compromise in the end. It beggars belief that heinous scum like Craig got what they wanted after fighting against the very same thing for so long.

And Partitionists wonder why we're a tad bitter about Partition?

Junkyard Tom

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Just because I hate everything the PROVOs stood for

And the official IRA, and the IRA of the revolutionary period, and the IRB, and the Fenians.. anyone who gave the British, and their proxies, a taste of their own medicine.

You don't have a problem with violence you have a problem with resistance to violence that you approve of.

Hqrry113

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hume and Mallon were political failures until Hume (Mallon rejected the opportunity) took up Fr. Alex Reid's suggestion/invitation to begin talks with Adams.

The Brits loved John Hume, he was a great man for them they heavily supported him in the elections to make sure that SF wouldn't win the vote, Hume was great for the Brits he was completely against any violent resistance, he pledged his oath of allegiance to the queen in Westminster every now and again and most important of all he knew his place.

Seriously imagine bringing people out on a march for equal rights and then 26 of them being shot and countless people being beaten to a pulp and then going into Westminster a few months later and pledging an oath of allegiance to the queen of the army who killed his people and deny them their rights, absolute joke of a man.

The only reason Hume is held in high regard is because of the propaganda campaigns by
MI5/MI6 launched against SF/IRA during the troubles where they hyped up John Hume and were desperately trying to make sure SF didn't win the vote, Sinn Fein weren't even allowed to have their voices broadcast in the media and once the GFA was done the Brits weren't arsed investing so much time and money into making sure the SDLP won the vote by the small majority they had anymore and then came the downfall of the SDLP.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What area was that DC?

Basically every area with a republican majority who let the ira away with it.
My community suffered a sectarian onslaught from the ira including bombs and murder, but at least we escaped the other nasty stuff that was reserved for their own community ie rape, child abuse, extortion, punishment beatings fo misbehaving kids, murder for not respecting them eg falling out in pubs with their masters friends or family - all while many leaders worked for the state and set up their own members for murder.
That’s just some stuff. So I am conscious the nationalist community in some ways suffered more at the hands of the ira than unionists.
But hey, there are some people proud of that on here

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Basically every area with a republican majority who let the ira away with it.
My community suffered a sectarian onslaught from the ira including bombs and murder,

Asked this before and the question was ignored, can you link to the data on this?

Or is this another one of your 'my friend told me' yarns?

Regarding attacks on their own communities, it seems that is just as much a problem for Loyalism/Unionism right up to the present day:

Meanwhile, loyalist paramilitaries, who are supposedly meant to be on ceasefire, appear more inclined to carry out beatings than shootings against those who cross them within mainly working-class unionist/Protestant areas.

This is child abuse of a kind comparable to the actions of paedophiles
Liam Kennedy
In 2013 the figures show that 34 assaults were carried out by those aligned to certain factions of the Ulster Volunteer Force and the Ulster Defence Association. In 2017 the number had increased to 57.

Responding to the upsurge in paramilitary “punishment attacks”, which in the case of dissident republicans is a means of offering the nationalist community an “alternative quick-fix” form of policing to the PSNI, the chief constable said some parents were “acquiescing” in this system by bringing their children to appointments for beatings and shootings.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Asked this before and the question was ignored, can you link to the data on this?

Or is this another one of your 'my friend told me' yarns?

Regarding attacks on their own communities, it seems that is just as much a problem for Loyalism/Unionism right up to the present day:

I absolutely agree with your quote about loyalist punishment beating being child abuse. I felt for years that the ira bombs killing children should have been prosecuted as child abuse. The behaviour of both sides towards children have been horrendous.

As for your request for evidence. I fear going down that rabbit hole with you again where you just keep refusing to accept evidence.

Tell me what acceptable evidence would look like?

So in my predominantly nationalist community. 97% of all attacks by the Ira were on PUL community. Every single business owned by PUL community member was attacked by Ira and only 3 nationalist owned (and these were because of unionist links ie a catholic owned pub that was the place Protestants drank.) Also endless Protestant homes attacked by Ira.
What way would you like the evidence presented that is reasonably doable?

jm08

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Well, I wouldn't honour Dev in any fashion. There's a reason that he still remains a reviled figure. The Lynch of his day.

Griffith, Collins, Grattan, Emmet, Redmond, Parnell, Markievicz and O'Connell on the other hand, venerate away.

There's not enough named for them.

---

What always angers me is the battle for Home Rule, that kills Griffith and Redmond (and his legacy) and sets off a civil war and a couple of rebellions that we still are dealing with today, is exactly what the Statelet got as a compromise in the end. It beggars belief that heinous scum like Craig got what they wanted after fighting against the very same thing for so long.

And Partitionists wonder why we're a tad bitter about Partition?

Redmond would never have achieved Home Rule for island of Ireland because he didn't have the support of the Welsh MPs who had their own Home Rule agenda which would require the support if the Irish MPs in Westminster. Secondly, Redmond ignored Unionists and didn't even try to persuade them of the benefits of Home Rule.

Hqrry113

downcow wrote: »

I absolutely agree with your quote about loyalist punishment beating being child abuse. I felt for years that the ira bombs killing children should have been prosecuted as child abuse. The behaviour of both sides towards children have been horrendous.

As for your request for evidence. I fear going down that rabbit hole with you again where you just keep refusing to accept evidence.

Tell me what acceptable evidence would look like?

So in my predominantly nationalist community. 97% of all attacks by the Ira were on PUL community. Every single business owned by PUL community member was attacked by Ira and only 3 nationalist owned (and these were because of unionist links ie a catholic owned pub that was the place Protestants drank.) Also endless Protestant homes attacked by Ira.
What way would you like the evidence presented that is reasonably doable?

Listen, no one believes your pathetic anecdotal stories in your attempt to prove a point.

Brendan Bendar

downcow wrote: »

I absolutely agree with your quote about loyalist punishment beating being child abuse. I felt for years that the ira bombs killing children should have been prosecuted as child abuse. The behaviour of both sides towards children have been horrendous.

As for your request for evidence. I fear going down that rabbit hole with you again where you just keep refusing to accept evidence.

Tell me what acceptable evidence would look like?

So in my predominantly nationalist community. 97% of all attacks by the Ira were on PUL community. Every single business owned by PUL community member was attacked by Ira and only 3 nationalist owned (and these were because of unionist links ie a catholic owned pub that was the place Protestants drank.) Also endless Protestant homes attacked by Ira.
What way would you like the evidence presented that is reasonably doable?

Francie needs the data from Met Èireann to prove it is raining:D

If you were foolish enough to go down that rabbit hole he’d have the keyboard worn off your device.:pac:

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I absolutely agree with your quote about loyalist punishment beating being child abuse. I felt for years that the ira bombs killing children should have been prosecuted as child abuse. The behaviour of both sides towards children have been horrendous.

As for your request for evidence. I fear going down that rabbit hole with you again where you just keep refusing to accept evidence.

Tell me what acceptable evidence would look like?

So in my predominantly nationalist community. 97% of all attacks by the Ira were on PUL community. Every single business owned by PUL community member was attacked by Ira and only 3 nationalist owned (and these were because of unionist links ie a catholic owned pub that was the place Protestants drank.) Also endless Protestant homes attacked by Ira.
What way would you like the evidence presented that is reasonably doable?

Evidence would be official accounts of these 'attacks'.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Francie needs the data from Met Èireann to prove it is raining:D

If you were foolish enough to go down that rabbit hole he’d have the keyboard worn off your device.:pac:

Not the first time downcow has chanced his arm with anecdotal 'woe is me' stories to portray himself as a victim.

You might have noticed that he tried it on just a few posts ago and the actual evidence showed that punishment beatings are just as big a problem in his community.

He reminds me of people who scream 'Shill' just coz their party is being criticised or laughed at.