How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

breezy1985

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Apart from the biggest change Brexit will bring for Unionists - a border in the Irish Sea, what is predicted to change the most? The NHS.
Jim Mc Allister was spouting nonsense last night about health care here on the BBC.
It will take very little to dispel that mis-information and faith in the NHS will disappear very quickly if the predicted changes begin to happen.

All to play for.

Getting told you have to pay €50 for something used to be free and having to pay for A&E on top of it isn't an easy sell. Also the NHS subsidise medication and stuff like panadol cost less than a euro for a strong pack. I've dealt with both systems and would take the NHS over the HSE.

Young people on the other hand might notice our much cheaper university system

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

This is what Francie regards as a "respectful remembrance" not designed to "taunt or triumphalise"

https://mmo.aiircdn.com/151/5efb4b87eda51.jpg

Why would a funeral taunt you Truth?

I think everyone should be allowed bury their dead too BTW.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would a funeral taunt you Truth?

I think everyone should be allowed bury their dead too BTW.

Francie, even the hundreds of slippery individuals operating in politics would find it hard to beat that response.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Francie, even the hundreds of slippery individuals operating in politics would find it hard to beat that response.

Who lives in the real world and doesn't know that there have been many many funerals like this on the island...never mind Belfast or the north?

Truth seemingly feels they are done to taunt him/her. Persecution complex maybe?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Who lives in the real world and doesn't know that there have been many many funerals like this on the island...never mind Belfast or the north?

Truth seemingly feels they are done to taunt him/her. Persecution complex maybe?

If that funeral wasn’t meant to taunt Francie, the Pope is in hiding in Bolivia with a Las Vegas croupier.

Have to say you have dug many rabbit holes in your 40k defense of SF but you got the JCB out on this one.

Mind boggling.....

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

If that funeral wasn’t meant to taunt Francie, the Pope is in hiding in Bolivia with a Las Vegas croupier.

Have to say you have dug many rabbit holes in your 40k defense of SF but you got the JCB out on this one.

Mind boggling.....

Have you the same view of Martin McGuinness's funeral? Did that one 'taunt' you?

I didn't think people got triggered by funerals. News to me.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Have you the same view of Martin McGuinness's funeral? Did that one 'taunt' you?

I didn't think people got triggered by funerals. News to me.

We will have to leave it there Francie, gone over the realms of credibility at this stage.

Thanking you.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

We will have to leave it there Francie, gone over the realms of credibility at this stage.

Thanking you.

That figures with you Brendi.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would a funeral taunt you Truth?

I think everyone should be allowed bury their dead too BTW.

Great. Would you ask your mates in the party you are not a member of to let the families of the remaining "disappeared" have a funeral for their dead. Expect it will be a real funeral and not the grotesque fascist pageant your pals insist on.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

Great. Would you ask your mates in the party you are not a member of to let the families of the remaining "disappeared" have a funeral for their dead. Expect it will be a real funeral and not the grotesque fascist pageant your pals insist on.

My views on that appalling part of the history of conflict/war have been given before.
Still not sure why you still seem to have a problem with 'it was all wrong, ALL of it' but anyway, I doubt, given that SF and IRA have always held that style of funeral, that you are genuinely concerned. I think it more likely, that, like others, there is political value in this one.
I think they got it wrong and said so immediately.

The_Fitz

Truthvader wrote: »

Great. Would you ask your mates in the party you are not a member of to let the families of the remaining "disappeared" have a funeral for their dead. Expect it will be a real funeral and not the grotesque fascist pageant your pals insist on.

Was this funeral taunting people during a pandemic?

Truthvader

The_Fitz wrote: »

Was this funeral taunting people during a pandemic?

No, that was a State funeral for brave and decent man who gave his life in the service of his community.

The other "funeral" was a paramilitary display by a bunch of thugs celebrating the wretched life of a person who blighted the lives of so many running a criminal organisation dedicated to random murder and thievery to extort personal advantage underpinned by a corrupted and deluded nationalism.


Glad to help as ever

The_Fitz

Truthvader wrote: »

No, that was a State funeral for brave and decent man who gave his life in the service of his community.

The other "funeral" was a paramilitary display by a bunch of thugs celebrating the wretched life of a person who blighted the lives of so many running a criminal organisation dedicated to random murder and thievery to extort personal advantage underpinned by a corrupted and deluded nationalism.


Glad to help as ever

The point I was making was that neither funeral was attempting to "taunt" anyone, before looking at the fact that the way both were conducted appear wrong in the current climate.

Truthvader

The_Fitz wrote: »

The point I was making was that neither funeral was attempting to "taunt" anyone, before looking at the fact that the way both were conducted appear wrong in the current climate.

Couldn't care less about the covid nonsense for either funeral. Probably could have been a bit smarter and reduced numbers etc but seems to be petty gripe in all the circumstances. As before my problem with Bobby Story's display is more fundamental

jh79

The_Fitz wrote: »

The point I was making was that neither funeral was attempting to "taunt" anyone, before looking at the fact that the way both were conducted appear wrong in the current climate.

You don't think a massive funeral for a person the caliber of Storey is upsetting to his victims? i know his equivalents on the loyalist side such as Billy Wright were given similar treatment but that doesn't make it right.

The_Fitz

jh79 wrote: »

You don't think a massive funeral for a person the caliber of Storey is upsetting to his victims? i know his equivalents on the loyalist side such as Billy Wright were given similar treatment but that doesn't make it right.

What is your answer, limit the amount of people that can attend the funeral of someone who was in the IRA/RUC/LVF/INLA/British Army/UDA/UVF?

Of course seeing people attend the funeral of someone who embodied an organisation that you vehemently disliked or opposed can be upsetting. But what would you gain by enforcing restrictions on such events (outside of a global pandemic, of course).

FrancieBrady

The_Fitz wrote: »

What is your answer, limit the amount of people that can attend the funeral of someone who was in the IRA/RUC/LVF/INLA/British Army/UDA/UVF?

Of course seeing people attend the funeral of someone who embodied an organisation that you vehemently disliked or opposed can be upsetting. But what would you gain by enforcing restrictions on such events (outside of a global pandemic, of course).

You are scratching at the very thin veneer here. These guys require supplication and deference to their own beliefs.
Leo Varadkar can stand smiling under a picture of Michael Collins (disregarding what he and his colleagues did and the victims of their acts) but nobody else can pay respects to their colleagues or people who achieved for them. The point they are making is that 'time' allows you to ignore what was done and victims.

The FG and FF boys and girls will bask in the glow of the GFA, extol all and sundry to work with nationalists and loyalists yet engage in this party political point scoring when it suits them. Hypocritical to it's very core.

downcow

The_Fitz wrote: »

What is your answer, limit the amount of people that can attend the funeral of someone who was in the IRA/RUC/LVF/INLA/British Army/UDA/UVF?

Of course seeing people attend the funeral of someone who embodied an organisation that you vehemently disliked or opposed can be upsetting. But what would you gain by enforcing restrictions on such events (outside of a global pandemic, of course).

They should ensure the act within the law.

Truthvader

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are scratching at the very thin veneer here. These guys require supplication and deference to their own beliefs.
Leo Varadkar can stand smiling under a picture of Michael Collins (disregarding what he and his colleagues did and the victims of their acts) but nobody else can pay respects to their colleagues or people who achieved for them. The point they are making is that 'time' allows you to ignore what was done and victims.

The FG and FF boys and girls will bask in the glow of the GFA, extol all and sundry to work with nationalists and loyalists yet engage in this party political point scoring when it suits them. Hypocritical to it's very core.

I know; so weird. All that supplication and deference to not being a murdering scumbag or supporting a party controlled by scumbags. Still, someone else has a picture of and old war hero from 100 years ago in their office so WTF lets put Dessie Ellis in charge of everything

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

I know; so weird. All that supplication and deference to not being a murdering scumbag or supporting a party controlled by scumbags. Still, someone else has a picture of and old war hero from 100 years ago in their office so WTF lets put Dessie Ellis in charge of everything

I'll let you keep underlining your own hypocrisy and your arbitrary cut off points for outrage and condemnation.

'Old war hero'

jh79

Francie, you said yesterday terrorism is a redundant term. For you, is there a difference between the man who beheaded the woman in Nice today and a French soldier on duty in Iraqi ? Is there the same equivalency that you apply to the IRA and the BA?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Francie, you said yesterday terrorism is a redundant term. For you, is there a difference between the man who beheaded the woman in Nice today and a French soldier on duty in Iraqi ? Is there the same equivalency that you apply to the IRA and the BA?

If the French soldier is using terror to subdue a civilian population or if he/she is colluding with one side to the benefit of the other and his/her own interests...no difference. Both are by definition 'terrorists'.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If the French soldier is using terror to subdue a civilian population or if he/she is colluding with one side to the benefit of the other and his/her own interests...no difference. Both are by definition 'terrorists'.

Sorry, worded it badly, should of said the French Army rather than an individual soldier.

Are the French Army equivalent to ISIS in your opinion?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Sorry, worded it badly, should of said the French Army rather than an individual soldier.

Are the French Army equivalent to ISIS in your opinion?

If they use the same methods to subjugate a civilian population, 'the use or threat of terror', I see no difference.

Is there any difference in the carpet bombing of a city, detonating a nuclear bomb and flying two planes into a building in their 'intention'? Not to me there isn't.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If they use the same methods to subjugate a civilian population, 'the use or threat of terror', I see no difference.

Is there any difference in the carpet bombing of a city, detonating a nuclear bomb and flying two planes into a building in their 'intention'? Not to me there isn't.

Wouldn't that mean that the action of the BA deserve no more scrutiny than the actions of the IRA if they are equivalent? The murder of Pat Finucane was no worse than the murder of any civilian in NI?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Wouldn't that mean that the action of the BA deserve no more scrutiny than the actions of the IRA if they are equivalent? The murder of Pat Finucane was no worse than the murder of any civilian in NI?

What is your point here?

All of what happened in the north deserves equal scrutiny or none of it does.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is your point here?

All of what happened in the north deserves equal scrutiny or none of it does.

My point is if you see no difference between an army and a terrorist organisation then you should have no issue with how the army conducts itself . If the IRA could plant bombs in pubs and shopping centres and kill civilians them the BA could kill civilians and collude with whoever they wanted to. There is no moral difference in your eyes.

Hamsterchops

(In theory) Five years until Northern Ireland leaves the UK, ceases to exist, thus becoming part of this Green White & Orange State . . . .

In Star Trek theory that is.

However, rality says that it could be another fifty years, if ever?

jm08

jh79 wrote: »

Sorry, worded it badly, should of said the French Army rather than an individual soldier.

Are the French Army equivalent to ISIS in your opinion?

The French Army do whatever they do in the name of the French people. So if they use drones to kill innocent civilians, the French people have to answer for them.

ISIS do what they do in the name of their supporters who need to answer for their deeds.

Brendan Bendar

jh79 wrote: »

Sorry, worded it badly, should of said the French Army rather than an individual soldier.

Are the French Army equivalent to ISIS in your opinion?

Worded this one badly too, I’m afraid.