How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I look forward to Parliament considering debating the matter several weeks or months after it has been resolved.

Also, to further bust Downcow's bubble (I'm sorry, I know I said I wouldn't)

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/573209.json

Three votes from Tuvalu, not one.....and as I said, one from North Korea on there too!

The five from Vatican City particularly jumped out at me from this most serious of petitions....

Ok. As always I am big enough to say I was wrong. Apologies I see the North Korea one hiding now. Groundbreaking stuff. I reckon it is Kim himself. He has a bit of a border issue to

I’ll say again, I don’t expect parliament debate to achieve anything more than keeping it up there.

Would you deny that Eu and Roi have changed their language from a few minor teething problems to serious issues?

Tell me this. Why would you not want to see gb soil allowed into ni Or ni pets able to go with their owners to the highlands on holidays?

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

where dafuq are the Unionists...is there not 900,000 of them?

3 people in fecking Tuvalu have signed this thing before 700,000 home grown Unionists have?

Awful response.

They're probably all down in Sainsbury's picking up their ready meals.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Tell me this. Why would you not want to see gb soil allowed into ni Or ni pets able to go with their owners to the highlands on holidays?

That's a UK issue, not an EU one.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's a UK issue, not an EU one.

Eu issues

Sam Russell

downcow wrote: »

Tell me this. Why would you not want to see gb soil allowed into ni Or ni pets able to go with their owners to the highlands on holidays?

This is nothing to what had to be done to keep foot and mouth out of the island and Ireland - and even with the most extreme precautions, it still got in.

Disease control is very important, and should be of concern for Unionists just as much as for everyone who lives on the island.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Eu issues

They aren't. There are, as the EU pointed out when they told Gove to PFO, problems that can be eased with flexibilities in the Protocol that the UK hasn't bothered to use.
Soil was always washed off vechicles crossing from Britain BTW and control of plants is something the EU takes seriously, so tough on that one.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Ok. As always I am big enough to say I was wrong. Apologies I see the North Korea one hiding now. Groundbreaking stuff. I reckon it is Kim himself. He has a bit of a border issue to

I’ll say again, I don’t expect parliament debate to achieve anything more than keeping it up there.

Would you deny that Eu and Roi have changed their language from a few minor teething problems to serious issues?

Tell me this. Why would you not want to see gb soil allowed into ni Or ni pets able to go with their owners to the highlands on holidays?

Ah come on, can you at least acknowledge my brilliant Pope in Orange photo re: the Vatican City signatures first.

I don't expect the discussion around maybe having a Parliamentary debate to even have that much of an impact to be frank, Downcow....I expect the issue to be resolved long before it gets to that point. As highlighted in the initial tweet that started this discussions, all parliamentary debates are suspended due to the pandemic and even then there are 34 other petitions ahead of it. We're looking at MONTHS before this ever reaches the point of Parliament considering it for debate.

Regarding the change of language from minor teething problems to serious issues, I suspect you're getting mixed up here. It was Boris Johnson who described the issues as teething problems before backing down.

The vast majority of my family live in NI, Downcow. I wish to see as little hassle as possible for them. However my family didn't vote for Brexit, my family didn't vote for the Tory Party or the DUP who propped them up while they came to the current arrangements. They'd prefer the current situation over an Irish land border though.

I wouldn't have a problem with seeing GB soil in Ireland, should they follow the correct procedures that other 3rd party countries follow. I'm more interested in maintaining agricultural integrity on our island than I am making it easier for British exporters now that they're not bound by the same rules we are. I don't expect any issues around standards in the short term, but as Britain may diverge further in the future, I'd prefer not to take the chance.

Regarding pets, I don't see how allowing pets to travel from NI to the Highlands in the UK can be put on the EU's doorstep. I'm not aware of the specifics on it however, so I can't comment too strongly there.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Ah come on, can you at least acknowledge my brilliant Pope in Orange photo re: the Vatican City signatures first.

I don't expect the discussion around maybe having a Parliamentary debate to even have that much of an impact to be frank, Downcow....I expect the issue to be resolved long before it gets to that point. As highlighted in the initial tweet that started this discussions, all parliamentary debates are suspended due to the pandemic and even then there are 34 other petitions ahead of it. We're looking at MONTHS before this ever reaches the point of Parliament considering it for debate.

Regarding the change of language from minor teething problems to serious issues, I suspect you're getting mixed up here. It was Boris Johnson who described the issues as teething problems before backing down.

The vast majority of my family live in NI, Downcow. I wish to see as little hassle as possible for them. However my family didn't vote for Brexit, my family didn't vote for the Tory Party or the DUP who propped them up while they came to the current arrangements. They'd prefer the current situation over an Irish land border though.

I wouldn't have a problem with seeing GB soil in Ireland, should they follow the correct procedures that other 3rd party countries follow. I'm more interested in maintaining agricultural integrity on our island than I am making it easier for British exporters now that they're not bound by the same rules we are. I don't expect any issues around standards in the short term, but as Britain may diverge further in the future, I'd prefer not to take the chance.

Regarding pets, I don't see how allowing pets to travel from NI to the Highlands in the UK can be put on the EU's doorstep. I'm not aware of the specifics on it however, so I can't comment too strongly there.

All through Brexit the UK debated and fought with itself while we in the EU patiently waited for them to reach some consensus. If this does get debated it will be just more of the same.
Pointless infighting and squabbling about a position that is fundamentally weak.

It's entertaining but ultimately who cares about them debating? Make your move Boris, you have zero room to move in, unless I am missing something.

Perhaps downcow or Rob can tell us what will be looked for, because damned if I can see anything other than a protocol a long the lines of what we have.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They aren't. There are, as the EU pointed out when they told Gove to PFO, problems that can be eased with flexibilities in the Protocol that the UK hasn't bothered to use.
Soil was always washed off vechicles crossing from Britain BTW and control of plants is something the EU takes seriously, so tough on that one.

Don’t fool yourself. They don’t take it seriously. They are just playing games. There is no issue with friends in England posting seeds to me. It’s only if they are delivered commercially. Explain that one.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Ah come on, can you at least acknowledge my brilliant Pope in Orange photo re: the Vatican City signatures first.

I don't expect the discussion around maybe having a Parliamentary debate to even have that much of an impact to be frank, Downcow....I expect the issue to be resolved long before it gets to that point. As highlighted in the initial tweet that started this discussions, all parliamentary debates are suspended due to the pandemic and even then there are 34 other petitions ahead of it. We're looking at MONTHS before this ever reaches the point of Parliament considering it for debate.

Regarding the change of language from minor teething problems to serious issues, I suspect you're getting mixed up here. It was Boris Johnson who described the issues as teething problems before backing down.

The vast majority of my family live in NI, Downcow. I wish to see as little hassle as possible for them. However my family didn't vote for Brexit, my family didn't vote for the Tory Party or the DUP who propped them up while they came to the current arrangements. They'd prefer the current situation over an Irish land border though.

I wouldn't have a problem with seeing GB soil in Ireland, should they follow the correct procedures that other 3rd party countries follow. I'm more interested in maintaining agricultural integrity on our island than I am making it easier for British exporters now that they're not bound by the same rules we are. I don't expect any issues around standards in the short term, but as Britain may diverge further in the future, I'd prefer not to take the chance.

Regarding pets, I don't see how allowing pets to travel from NI to the Highlands in the UK can be put on the EU's doorstep. I'm not aware of the specifics on it however, so I can't comment too strongly there.

The problem arises on the homeward journey. The Eu insists they are quarantined

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Don’t fool yourself. They don’t take it seriously. They are just playing games. There is no issue with friends in England posting seeds to me. It’s only if they are delivered commercially. Explain that one.

They can post you cocaine or an armalite too downcow.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They can post you cocaine or an armalite too downcow.

But that would be breaking the law. They are not breaking any law when they post me seeds

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They can post you cocaine or an armalite too downcow.

It’s getting late. I am just going to check the petition and then have a wee look at vaccination numbers for today and then head to bed.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

But that would be breaking the law. They are not breaking any law when they post me seeds

It's against EU rules:

Seed introduction (for non-commercial purposes) into the EU is only allowed when accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

It’s getting late. I am just going to check the petition and then have a wee look at vaccination numbers for today and then head to bed.

It has a long way to go to get to the 6 million one that was ignored by parliament.
Maybe get Johnson and May to do a double act assuring you 'no British PM would ever do dat', could be a musical maybe?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

It’s getting late. I am just going to check the petition and then have a wee look at vaccination numbers for today and then head to bed.

This is getting quite sad Downcow, especially when you're suggesting other people are rattled.

If the best thing you have to finish your Friday night with is to follow a Parliamentary petition that won't reach the point of discussion around whether to actually debate it until after the situation has resolved, I'd really suggest finding a hobby.

All of our differences aside, I really deeply hope that you're just being a triumphalist troll because the alternative that it is genuinely your idea of a high point to finish your evening with is honestly disturbing.

bfa1509

Things in the north are going to get a lot better before they get worse according to RTE's Tommy Gorman:

downcow

I am genuinely concerned that the dangerous game that Roi played around using the threat of violence to ensure there would be no checks on the real border will come back to bite us all.
I hope not, but I hear more and more throw away comments from ordinary unionists saying ‘if the Irish government can use threats then why can’t our community’. I don’t think anyone wants conflict again but the problem is that there are plenty of young people who didn’t know the pain of the last conflict and would be chomping at the bit for a bit of ‘excitement’.
The last conflict has been continually romanticised and never condemned by republicans, and now the Irish government has used the threat of it returning to good effect. That all, combined with lose talk by some unionist leaders, is very worrying.
I always said the armed conflict was over fo the foreseeable future. The last week has shook my confidence in that.
Singuarally the most dangerous thing in my view is how the Irish government used the ira as a threat to get their way. We have all learnt to expect that directly from sf and subtlety from SDLP, but it is a whole different thing when your neighbouring government does it.
Worrying times for OWC

Tyrone212

I wonder was there any signatures to that petition from Sri Lanka.

downcow

Tyrone212 wrote: »

I wonder was there any signatures to that petition from Sri Lanka.

No none yet from Sri Lanka. Why, do you have a friend out there?

Some guys on here are doing there best to spin this.
I was very clear I thought it was a bad idea and that it would never go near 100k. I was wrong. It hit it in 24hrs.

As for locations. The signatories are in the very high 90%s from my nation. Indeed I would estimate at least 99%. So the spin about locations is just silly.

Tyrone212

downcow wrote: »

No none yet from Sri Lanka. Why do you have a friend out there?

Some guys on here are doing there best to spin this.
I was very clear I thought it was a bad idea and that it would never go near 100k. I was wrong. It hit it in 24hrs.

As for locations. The signatories are in the very high 90%s from my nation. Indeed I would estimate at least 99%. So the spin about locations is just silly.

It was a joke about Ian paisley Jr scandal out there. Anyway the petition changes absolutely nothing whether its written with ink or tears. Get used to the sea border and the dying days of unionism on this island. Unionism shot themselves in the foot with brexit, arlene and her gang of low iq blowhards did more for irish unity than we could ever have wished for. Makes it all the more sweet. Tantrums crying whataboutery won't change anything.

Patches oHoulihan

downcow wrote: »

I am genuinely concerned that the dangerous game that Roi played around using the threat of violence to ensure there would be no checks on the real border will come back to bite us all.
I hope not, but I hear more and more throw away comments from ordinary unionists saying ‘if the Irish government can use threats then why can’t our community’. I don’t think anyone wants conflict again but the problem is that there are plenty of young people who didn’t know the pain of the last conflict and would be chomping at the bit for a bit of ‘excitement’.
The last conflict has been continually romanticised and never condemned by republicans, and now the Irish government has used the threat of it returning to good effect. That all, combined with lose talk by some unionist leaders, is very worrying.
I always said the armed conflict was over fo the foreseeable future. The last week has shook my confidence in that.
Singuarally the most dangerous thing in my view is how the Irish government used the ira as a threat to get their way. We have all learnt to expect that directly from sf and subtlety from SDLP, but it is a whole different thing when your neighbouring government does it.
Worrying times for OWC

What threats?
More like stating a likelihood.
Politicians in Dublin have/had no say in paramilitary violence unlike their British counterparts.

You're looking at things from your British viewpoint. Think about it from both sides. The loyalist paramilitaries like a bit of romance as well dont they.


As for the romance of a "United Ireland" I think its unworkable at this point. There's too much division. Loyalists will never accept being ruled from Dublin and we won't even go into the cost.

Its becoming more obvious that Boris doesn't want the problem either and its frankly cringe material watching Foster desperately trying to cling on.

Nobody wants violence. Well no rational person anyway.
There has to be another way.

downcow

Tyrone212 wrote: »

It was a joke about Ian paisley Jr scandal out there. Anyway the petition changes absolutely nothing whether its written with ink or tears. Get used to the sea border and the dying days of unionism on this island. Unionism shot themselves in the foot with brexit, arlene and her gang of low iq blowhards did more for irish unity than we could ever have wished for. Makes it all the more sweet. Tantrums crying whataboutery won't change anything.

Sorry. Went right over my head. Lol

I hear the same fantastical wishful thinking from you as I’ve been hearing since the 80s

I agree the DUP have been very bad for the union. Thank god the ira managed to put paid to a United ireland for generations

I am also not sure about your ‘low iq’ scoff. Actually I think it is the opposite problem. I don’t know if any party in UK or Ireland that has such a percentage of MPs that are barristers etc. I would like to see more ordinary unionists involved.

Tbh the Irish Sea border is being talked up (a tactic learnt of nationalists and Leo during brexit) to get concessions, which last few days show are clearly coming. It’s a dangerous game for peace I worry, if the lid comes off we could all be screwed for another generation and this time it is inevitable that Roi would get drawn in.

I do though believe there is a much greater likelihood that it will all settle down when we get some important concessions around freer movement. Then we will be in an amazing situation of the best of both worlds and all communities here will benefit and any idea of disrupting it with talk of a UI will be gone for generations.

Onwards and upwards.

downcow

Patches oHoulihan wrote: »

What threats?.

Here is just one particularly disgusting example.
Exactly the same tactic as the guys with the paint brushes in Larne, only difference is Leo is wearing a suit.
Unfortunately it works, as Leo demonstrated during brexit and as the guys with the paint brushes demonstrated this week by bringing it all back into the agenda

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/brexit/varadkar-shows-eu27-dinner-guests-border-bomb-horror-picture-brexit-deadlock-over-ireland-backstop-37433917.html

IRISHSPORTSGUY

Because of the never ending shenanigans about Article 16/a land border/sea border, a border poll is looking more and more likely to be called by the day.

Michael Martin is absolutely the right man to be Taoiseach at this time, I'm grateful that the Shinners didn't gain power. They are too divisive. This is about uniting OUR country. It can be done, we can win the referendum.

downcow

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Because of the never ending shenanigans about Article 16/a land border/sea border, a border poll is looking more and more likely to be called by the day.

Michael Martin is absolutely the right man to be Taoiseach at this time, I'm grateful that the Shinners didn't gain power. They are too divisive. This is about uniting OUR country. It can be done, we can win the referendum.

It’s the arrogance of your use of ‘OUR’ that will ensure the divisiveness will continue.
It’s like who Kim jong-un would refer you South Korea or the Russians to Ukraine.
You are living 100 years ago when you use language like that.

Keep up the good work. Your attitude helps OWC to go from strength to strength

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

It’s the arrogance of your use of ‘OUR’ that will ensure the divisiveness will continue.
It’s like who Kim jong-un would refer you South Korea or the Russians to Ukraine.
You are living 100 years ago when you use language like that.

Keep up the good work. Your attitude helps OWC to go from strength to strength

Claims it is arrogant to use the term Our.....goes on to refer to NI as OUR wee country.

A bit of consistency please.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I hear more and more throw away comments from ordinary unionists

Who are they going to attack? The British government? Also you understand that people in the north can vote themselves into a United Ireland where they'll feel safer knowing that the British army can't be brought back and unionists' paramilitaries will not have the support of the British?

Checkmate.

bilbot79

It really has to be Alliance votes now. The solution for Northern Ireland is to rid itself of extremism and grow the moderate centre where Taigs and Prods sit in coffee shops together and talk about whether they'll go on holiday to Kerry or the Lake District this year.

Let moderate politics dominate, then maybe talk about what country to sign up for. It's not necessarily gonna be a united ireland anyway. The smart money would be with the status quo where the world and it's mother will do anything to keep northern Irish people happy

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Who are they going to attack? The British government? Also you understand that people in the north can vote themselves into a United Ireland where they'll feel safer knowing that the British army can't be brought back and unionists' paramilitaries will not have the support of the British?

Checkmate.

I have already said I think it is more likely the free movement will be sorted and everything will be hunky doray.
But if conflict breaks out I think it is inevitable loyalists will take the battle south.
You are on of the many on here who say the ira gained concessions by taking their battle to gb so seems logical loyalists take theirs to Roi.

From a terrorist warped mind it has a double bonus. It gets Roi and Eu to the table and also forces Roi to establish the hard border that they used threat of violence to prevent.
I guess the michael stone types won’t be attending funerals on the falls road but rather would be looking to visit Dublin cork or limerick.

I can see no logic to loyalists attacking British forces.