How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

So who leads the official unification campaign then?

Leo, whose party could very well be divided on the subject? On the basis of economic grounds, but there are also a few quiet partitionists in FG.
The political wing of the IRA being left, right and center is considerably less likely to swing Alliance voters.

It has to be Fianna Fail and by extension Michael.

Yes, FF who are burnished with such republican credentials...

I like that you're trying to claim ownership of the campaign. I mean, do you not think FF leading a campaign would be a huge turnoff for a lot of people?

Not to mention just how inept they are at almost everything. No thanks.

That party will be a rump when the time comes. Thankfully.

I think an easier thing to ask us is who will lead the charge for the Partitionists... Answer that question before you start trying to position the Soldiers of Destiny as some sort of saviours of a UI. Baffling.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yes, FF who are burnished with such republican credentials...

I like that you're trying to claim ownership of the campaign. I mean, do you not think FF leading a campaign would be a huge turnoff for a lot of people?

Not to mention just how inept they are at almost everything. No thanks.

That party will be a rump when the time comes. Thankfully.

I think an easier thing to ask us is who will lead the charge for the Partitionists... Answer that question before you start trying to position the Soldiers of Destiny as some sort of saviours of a UI. Baffling.

Fianna Fail, for all they have done wrong also have a good story to tell. They were the political party in power for the majority of the history of the state while we've transformed from a poverty ridden British backwater to what we are today - one of the richest countries in Europe and the world.

BonnieSituation

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

Fianna Fail, for all they have done wrong also have a good story to tell. They were the political party in power for the majority of the history of the state while we've transformed from a poverty ridden British backwater to what we are today - one of the richest countries in Europe and the world.

Good God

I guess there's no talking to someone who believes in that shíte.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why are they threatening British Customs agents?

I understand it was not paramilitaries. Just guys with paintbrushes. Scary the impact they can have

maestroamado

This thread has being running for a while but i have being thinking of what is going on in recent days and feel the need to comment.
The NI people and Governmemnt have stated that they want to be part of the Free trade in EU, they have also said they want to ber part of UK.
The UK and EU decided to create Customs check in what is part of their own Country which for me is crazy.
I think in the end it will come down to who props-up the NI system financally.
I expect this Customs excercise if it stays in place be the begginning of start towards United Ireland.
I do not think NI would be financially viable without support from Westminister, i doubt if we can afford to take it on.

It is just me thinking as i am sure people here will correct me if i am wrong.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'British' customs officers are 'invaders'? Okie doke.

p.s. It isn't hard to see what you think of this threat in your 'big boy pants' challenge to the 'EU'. Your excitement at the prospect of violence is palpable.

Francie,as you pointed out,it's a bit of graffiti.
I hope things remain calm and a solution can be found.

IRISHSPORTSGUY

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Good God

I guess there's no talking to someone who believes in that shíte.

So why do you think Ireland has been so successful then?

The EU has contributed,certainly, but there are plenty of poor/unsuccessful countries there. Good decision making by policy makers was a crucial factor. As a nation we have never given enough credit to our previous governments.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'd usually expect a big surge of interest when a petition first hits mainstream awareness, which was certainly the case for this one, hitting 100k signatures in under a day.

I wouldn't be surprised to see another jump in signatures during the afternoon and early evening today, but weekend or not, the middle of the night certainly isn't when I'd expect any sort of surge on any petition.

One can discuss the futility of the petition easily, or how it is a very obvious move by the DUP to recover the votes they're looking like haemorrhaging, but in the context of your average UK Government petition, given the small size of NI relative to the general UK population, I don't think it would be fair or accurate to describe it as a faltering petition. Pointless, yes, an attempt to spare blushes by the DUP, absolutely, but numbers wise it is doing pretty well.

Very honest. Total respect for your contribution

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Francie,as you pointed out,it's a bit of graffiti.
I hope things remain calm and a solution can be found.

SO you think the EU needs 'big boy pants' because of a bit of graffiti?

Like others here, you don't be long reversing when you realise you have revealed yourself.
I too hope people can continue to guarantee their peacefulness Rob.
As far as I can see the issue has been sorted, the EU have told Gove to meet them in a week and they will show him how to properly implement the Protocol and resolve the teething issues.

Brendan Bendar

maestroamado wrote: »

This thread has being running for a while but i have being thinking of what is going on in recent days and feel the need to comment.
The NI people and Governmemnt have stated that they want to be part of the Free trade in EU, they have also said they want to ber part of UK.
The UK and EU decided to create Customs check in what is part of their own Country which for me is crazy.
I think in the end it will come down to who props-up the NI system financally.
I expect this Customs excercise if it stays in place be the begginning of start towards United Ireland.
I do not think NI would be financially viable without support from Westminister, i doubt if we can afford to take it on.

It is just me thinking as i am sure people here will correct me if i am wrong.

Correct and right.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

SO you think the EU needs 'big boy pants' because of a bit of graffiti?

Like others here, you don't be long reversing when you realise you have revealed yourself.
I too hope people can continue to guarantee their peacefulness Rob.
As far as I can see the issue has been sorted, the EU have told Gove to meet them in a week and they will show him how to properly implement the Protocol and resolve the teething issues.

Francie,I've expressed anger at some of the actions of the ira during the troubles but don't think recent events in Larne (which I agree are wrong)are comparable.The big boy pants comment was actually surprise at the EU reaction to a bit of graffiti.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Francie,I've expressed anger at some of the actions of the ira during the troubles but don't think recent events in Larne (which I agree are wrong)are comparable.The big boy pants comment was actually surprise at the EU reaction to a bit of graffiti.

The EU condemned it like everyone else. Why would that 'surprise' you?

downcow

IRISHSPORTSGUY wrote: »

But N.I (Ireland) is our country. As much as it belongs to the people of a British tradition.

I want a positive campaign when the Unification Referendum occurs.
We have a lot in common with Ulster-Scots, in fact if you go back to the Celts we are them and they are us. Ireland is one of the wealthiest countries in the world, meanwhile Northern Ireland has become a shambles since partition - we can change that.

Also, I think it's important going forward, as part of the unification process, that we in the south have to acknowledge our role in British history more. We seem to have airbrushed a lot of that away. How many people are aware that a third of Wellington's Army at Waterloo was Irish, for example?

I apologise. If you live in ni then of course ni is your country. I assumed you were a southerner referring to ni as ‘our’ country

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The EU condemned it like everyone else. Why would that 'surprise' you?

I was referring to the EU's perceived lack of resolve.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I was referring to the EU's perceived lack of resolve.

Perceived by whom? Your usual tabloid press?

Anyone that actually matters?

By my reckoning, Gove sent a demanding letter with a firm deadline of this week to resolve the situation, he got a pat on the head and told they'd have a meeting with him on their timetable, and he's puffed his chest out like he's actually achieved something.

Will the EU gift the UK another fig leave to spare their blushes and to protect NI? Probably, and I hope so. I'd prefer to let Britain have its tabloid victory than to have my community continued to be tossed around as a political football.

As with the entire discussions all along, the UK have an array of options depending on how much they're willing to give and take. Nothing major will change without significant concessions coming back the other way from the UK.

Often there is an interesting mentality among a significant cohort of the British towards negotiations, one that I presume is a relic of your country's colonial past. It is always about winners and losers, the idea of mutually beneficial compromise doesn't really compute. You largely view the world as leaders or followers, never a group of equals.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I was referring to the EU's perceived lack of resolve.

What?

The EU sent Gove back a 'PFO until next week' letter in answer to his demands for a 'resolving' of the issues this week. What 'perceived lack of resolve'?

Is this back to the 'EU are gonna fold like a cheap tent' delusions again?

astrofool

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Perceived by whom? Your usual tabloid press?

Anyone that actually matters?

By my reckoning, Gove sent a demanding letter with a firm deadline of this week to resolve the situation, he got a pat on the head and told they'd have a meeting with him on their timetable, and he's puffed his chest out like he's actually achieved something.

Will the EU gift the UK another fig leave to spare their blushes and to protect NI? Probably, and I hope so. I'd prefer to let Britain have its tabloid victory than to have my community continued to be tossed around as a political football.

As with the entire discussions all along, the UK have an array of options depending on how much they're willing to give and take. Nothing major will change without significant concessions coming back the other way from the UK.

Often there is an interesting mentality among a significant cohort of the British towards negotiations, one that I presume is a relic of your country's colonial past. It is always about winners and losers, the idea of mutually beneficial compromise doesn't really compute. You largely view the world as leaders or followers, never a group of equals.

All the brit's want is the ability to declare victories, it doesn't matter how hollow they are, it puts anyone negotiating with them in control, whether it's the EU and trade, or ROI and reunification, give them a way to spin it as victory, and they'll pretty much agree to anything.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Perceived by whom? Your usual tabloid press?

Anyone that actually matters?

By my reckoning, Gove sent a demanding letter with a firm deadline of this week to resolve the situation, he got a pat on the head and told they'd have a meeting with him on their timetable, and he's puffed his chest out like he's actually achieved something.

Will the EU gift the UK another fig leave to spare their blushes and to protect NI? Probably, and I hope so. I'd prefer to let Britain have its tabloid victory than to have my community continued to be tossed around as a political football.

As with the entire discussions all along, the UK have an array of options depending on how much they're willing to give and take. Nothing major will change without significant concessions coming back the other way from the UK.

Often there is an interesting mentality among a significant cohort of the British towards negotiations, one that I presume is a relic of your country's colonial past. It is always about winners and losers, the idea of mutually beneficial compromise doesn't really compute. You largely view the world as leaders or followers, never a group of equals.

Fionn,I've made a point of always searching European or Irish media as UK media claims are generally ridiculed on boards(not this thread particularly)unless it suits, when any old sh*te from the express(for example)is quoted.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Fionn,I've made a point of always searching European or Irish media as UK media claims are generally ridiculed on boards(not this thread particularly)unless it suits, when any old sh*te from the express(for example)is quoted.

Hence why I asked, Rob.

What European media is reporting on the EU's lack of resolve regarding the situation in NI? What European media is making statements about Big Boy pants (this is the type of phraseology I'd expect in nonsense tabloid journalism, not serious reporting, hence the reference to your tabloid press in my post).

Generally the likes of the Express is ridiculed as biased nonsense with more interest in agenda over facts (as it should be); I wouldn't hold up An Phoblacht as a source for independent reliable journalism, nor would I the Belfast Newsletter, so I'm pretty happy to call out The Express for what it is without appearing to be a hypocrite.

There is a time and a place when they can provide a useful source though; when even The Express/An Phoblacht/The Newsletter are reporting something that goes against their usual spin, usually the reality is so evident that it is undeniable.
I can't recall anyone posting The Express as a serious source when it suits, but I can recall, 'it is so obvious that even the Express have to admit it' being put forward.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Hence why I asked, Rob.

What European media is reporting on the EU's lack of resolve regarding the situation in NI? What European media is making statements about Big Boy pants (this is the type of phraseology I'd expect in nonsense tabloid journalism, not serious reporting, hence the reference to your tabloid press in my post).

Generally the likes of the Express is ridiculed as biased nonsense with more interest in agenda over facts (as it should be); I wouldn't hold up An Phoblacht as a source for independent reliable journalism, nor would I the Belfast Newsletter, so I'm pretty happy to call out The Express for what it is without appearing to be a hypocrite.

There is a time and a place when they can provide a useful source though; when even The Express/An Phoblacht/The Newsletter are reporting something that goes against their usual spin, usually the reality is so evident that it is undeniable.
I can't recall anyone posting The Express as a serious source when it suits, but I can recall, 'it is so obvious that even the Express have to admit it' being put forward.

The big boy pants comment was my own take on the less than determined efforts/resolve of the EU after the graffiti incidents.
People are increasingly quoting the express as a serious media outlet here on boards and not for its headlines comedy content.
I'm sure you're well able to search European papers comments on the EU's performance so far in NI,although you should be aware it doesn't make for pleasant reading if you buy everything brussels churns out.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

The big boy pants comment was my own take on the less than determined efforts/resolve of the EU after the graffiti incidents.
People are increasingly quoting the express as a serious media outlet here on boards and not for its headlines comedy content.
I'm sure you're well able to search European papers comments on the EU's performance so far in NI,although you should be aware it doesn't make for pleasant reading if you buy everything brussels churns out.

You've made the statement that European media is widely reporting on the EU's perceived lack of resolve, Rob. It doesn't line up with what I've read (which has been much more critical of the UK's complete and utter lack of preparedness than anything).

If you're making claims though, it's down to you to back them up. Hitchen's Razor applies otherwise.

maccored

RobMc59 wrote: »

The big boy pants comment was my own take on the less than determined efforts/resolve of the EU after the graffiti incidents.
People are increasingly quoting the express as a serious media outlet here on boards and not for its headlines comedy content.
I'm sure you're well able to search European papers comments on the EU's performance so far in NI,although you should be aware it doesn't make for pleasant reading if you buy everything brussels churns out.

unionism need to make some effort to resolve the graffiti elements. its their people doing it.

Brendan Bendar

maccored wrote: »

unionism need to make some effort to resolve the graffiti elements. its their people doing it.

As Mr Brady keeps saying...”Have you a link to that”.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Will the EU gift the UK another fig leave to spare their blushes and to protect NI? Probably, and I hope so. I'd prefer to let Britain have its tabloid victory than to have my community continued to be tossed around as a political football.
.

This sounds like you are describing the fig leaf that gfa give to republicans

downcow

astrofool wrote: »

All the brit's want is the ability to declare victories, it doesn't matter how hollow they are, it puts anyone negotiating with them in control, whether it's the EU and trade, or ROI and reunification, give them a way to spin it as victory, and they'll pretty much agree to anything.

Republicans & gfa

maestroamado

astrofool wrote: »

All the brit's want is the ability to declare victories, it doesn't matter how hollow they are, it puts anyone negotiating with them in control, whether it's the EU and trade, or ROI and reunification, give them a way to spin it as victory, and they'll pretty much agree to anything.

Thats called politics.
I do not see SINN FEIN jumping now asking for UNITED IRELAND which is their purpose. "politics politics"

FrancieBrady

Somebody's telling porkies to whip up the tensions. I wonder who?

Trade unions have denied raising concerns about suspicious activity at port checks ahead of a council’s decision to withdraw staff from the inspection posts.

...

Announcing the decision on Monday, DUP mayor Peter Johnson cited “serious concerns” raised by trade unions over “increasing suspicious activity” including the recording of number-plate details of staff members.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-unions-deny-raising-concerns-about-suspicious-activity-at-port-checks-1.4478251?mode=amp

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Somebody's telling porkies to whip up the tensions. I wonder who?



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/brexit-unions-deny-raising-concerns-about-suspicious-activity-at-port-checks-1.4478251?mode=amp

Francie. This how it works. The shinners have taught loyalists. Nobody really cares. That’s a last weeks news. It had its desired effect. Free movement back on the agenda.
Sure you hold a tribunal into it. Nobody cares

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. This how it works. The shinners have taught loyalists. Nobody really cares. That’s a last weeks news. It had its desired effect. Free movement back on the agenda.
Sure you hold a tribunal into it. Nobody cares

Nobody will really care about DUP separation angst now either downcow.

trashcan

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Claims it is arrogant to use the term Our.....goes on to refer to NI as OUR wee country.

A bit of consistency please.

Oh, I thought it was Orange Wee Country