How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

What relevance has that to genuine fears that SF will help their former comrades in the IRA when in power?

Old men and women? What do you think they are gonna do jh79?

FF and FG took their combatants into government with them after independence, installed them in state jobs and positions. For feck sake, they didn't even disarm. FF arrived to Dáil sittings, armed.

We are a long way from that.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Old men and women? What do you think they are gonna do jh79?

FF and FG took their combatants into government with them after independence, installed them in state jobs and positions. For feck sake, they didn't even disarm. FF arrived to Dáil sittings, armed.

We are a long way from that.

Dublin Jimmy (robbed banks for the IRA) was an old man and was causing havoc in Cavan. Slab is an old man, One Shot too.

What age was Jock when he ordered the murder of McCarthney and Derry SF did him a favour and saw nothing?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Old men and women? What do you think they are gonna do jh79?

FF and FG took their combatants into government with them after independence, installed them in state jobs and positions. For feck sake, they didn't even disarm. FF arrived to Dáil sittings, armed.

We are a long way from that.

Also these "old men" have families indoctrinated into criminality and bigotry.

Brady's accomplices are from a well known Republican family.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Dublin Jimmy (robbed banks for the IRA) was an old man and was causing havoc in Cavan. Slab is an old man, One Shot too.

What age was Jock when he ordered the murder of McCarthney and Derry SF did him a favour and saw nothing?

What connections do they have to SF?

We know that criminals will attach themselves to armies...happens every where.

Criminals will also attach themselves to all political parties for favours, because the old maxim still works sadly...power corrupts...some wear suits some don't.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Also these "old men" have families indoctrinated into criminality and bigotry.

Brady's accomplices are from a well known Republican family.

Are you still trying to connect Brady to SF? :rolleyes:

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you still trying to connect Brady to SF? :rolleyes:

I think we'd know by now. The family isn't too popular within the IRA community from what i've read.

The point is that it is BS to say they are all harmless old men. These old men have people working for them.

British SF have shown with McCarthney that they will protect former comrades.

Why shouldn't I assume that Irish SF will do the same?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I think we'd know by now. The family isn't too popular within the IRA community from what i've read.

The point is that it is BS to say they are all harmless old men. These old men have people working for them.

British SF have shown with McCarthney that they will protect former comrades.

Why shouldn't I assume that Irish SF will do the same?

What is the 'IRA community'?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is the 'IRA community'?

Former terrorists and SF.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No similarity at all. We may not have handled independence well initially, but we are now a modern, outward looking country with all the issues of a normal modern country.

Not entirely true. While modern and generally outward looking, it still carries the flaw of a minority of its people still have a hankering, from low level not really considered romantic notion at one end of the scale, to condoning violent insurrection and murder on the other end, for claiming as its part of itself, what is a foreign country. Which is not healthy for either Ireland, or the part of the UK concerned.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Former terrorists and SF.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

Very reason some of us fear SF getting into power. The likes of "Slab" and "One Shot" having friends in high places.
.

one shot being the south armagh sniper,died several years ago......i still feel,the british should have been brought up torture,after what they done at that arrest site



Slab murphy perfromed a citizens arrest on british soldiers whom strayed into the 26 counties previously

FrancieBrady

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Not entirely true. While modern and generally outward looking, it still carries the flaw of a minority of its people still have a hankering, from low level not really considered romantic notion at one end of the scale, to condoning violent insurrection and murder on the other end, for claiming as its part of itself, what is a foreign country. Which is not healthy for either Ireland, or the part of the UK concerned.

Wha?

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

What relevance has that to genuine fears that SF will help their former comrades in the IRA when in power?

Ah yes today's strawman.

Have you nothing to say about the defence of the killing of citizens by the security forces by some on thread?

---

Back to your pointless strawman attempt...

Are you expecting that all other political parties would dissolve in the event of a UI?

You do realise that FF, FG, DUP, SocDems, UUP, Alliance, Labour, SDLP etc might have something to say about SF "getting into power"?

You should also note that should the day come that SF lead a government that it will be as.a result of the democratic choice at the ballot box and the will of the people.

You're not anti-democratic are you?

Natterjack from Kerry

jh79 wrote: »

Former terrorists and SF.

Exactly. And everyone knows that.
Bombs and bullets might be silenced, because the sought end is considered, at the moment, more likely to be achieved by other means. It does not mean that the mindset, the goal, and the acceptability of the violent route if that were considered more effective, have changed.
It is in this regard, that republicanism has not fundamentally changed since the GFA. If anything, SF presenting itself as a normal political party is a more insidious deceit on the people on the island that was the overt violence. True maturity from SF, in the last 20 years, would have had it abandon all claims to a UI, and work within Northern Ireland, will all parties, for the betterment of the lives of all its 1.5M citizens. Abd closed up shop in the republic.
But such a visionary move was beyond SF/IRA.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Ah yes today's strawman.

Have you nothing to say about the defence of the killing of citizens by the security forces by some on thread?

---

Back to your pointless strawman attempt...

Are you expecting that all other political parties would dissolve in the event of a UI?

You do realise that FF, FG, DUP, SocDems, UUP, Alliance, Labour, SDLP etc might have something to say about SF "getting into power"?

You should also note that should the day come that SF lead a government that it will be as.a result of the democratic choice at the ballot box and the will of the people.

You're not anti-democratic are you?

It's extraordinary that there are people who equate a UI to a takeover by the 'RA and the Shinners.

Partitionist scaremongering isn't very high quality.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

one shot being the south armagh sniper,died several years ago......i still feel,the british should have been brought up torture,after what they done at that arrest site



Slab murphy perfromed a citizens arrest on british soldiers whom strayed into the 26 counties previously

Must be two One Shots. Unless he died very recently this guy is a good friend of that idiot Murphy.

Friend of Slab ended up having a metal spike hammered through his face. Total coincidence of course. Nothing to do with the man being a witness in a court case!

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's extraordinary that there are people who equate a UI to a takeover by the 'RA and the Shinners.

Partitionist scaremongering isn't very high quality.

Unification won't remove criminality from SF version of Republicanism. It has nothing to do with partition.

Natterjack from Kerry

Deleted User wrote: »

all the main parties in the state,as part of their constitution have achieving a utd ireland as part of their aims and objectives....just shinners are more committed to it


Bunracht na heireann also has united the country as part of its aspirations??

Exactly my point, so southern Ireland isnt exactly the mature, modern, outward looking country some might like to portray it as. It is still hung up an issue of more than a century ago.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/iras-top-sniper-bernard-mcginn-is-found-dead-in-his-monaghan-home-video-236928931-237793111

He's the man nicknamed golden finger..


Slab murphy,may be lots of things,but an idiot isnt one of them,himself and kevin mckenna names will live long through irish history,in same stead as likes of tom barry,georgie lennon,sean south etc etc


Now,i have no doubt,he isnt a saint,but id love more than anything to see him run for president,but he's cut from same cloth as martin ferris,rural,reserved etc etc so unlikely he will

Wasn't calling Slab an idiot. I was referring to Conor Murphy.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Unification won't remove criminality from SF version of Republicanism. It has nothing to do with partition.

There is criminality all over this state and the big bad world jh79. SF and republicanism doesn't have a patent on nor a monopoly on it.

Natterjack from Kerry

Deleted User wrote: »

https://www.irishcentral.com/news/iras-top-sniper-bernard-mcginn-is-found-dead-in-his-monaghan-home-video-236928931-237793111

Slab murphy,may be lots of things,but an idiot isnt one of the

Unfortunately he isnt. He might have done less harm if her were. He is a 'good republican' - SF/IRA shorthand for a 'murderous terrorist', which is a term of hig esteem in their minds.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Fair play,i red it wrong

You might know this. I think Slab was in the Sunday World once where they had pictures of people queuing up to get his autograph in some pub. It was pre internet days and I couldn't find anything online. Any chance you remember it?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hopefully the partitionists will see what they are allying with now, and repudiate it.

There was no similarity in the south, the south does not need an international agreement just to function. An international agreement that is now holding back the 3 countries of the UK from the future they seem to want outside the EU.

No similarity at all. We may not have handled independence well initially, but we are now a modern, outward looking country with all the issues of a normal modern country.

We wouldn’t have needed any agreement either if we had replicated what the south done. ie set up systems so as the minority population dropped to 3%. It’s why Americans don’t have to worry about 1st nation people or Australia don’t need to worry about aboriginals.

It’s hardly something to boast about that you had a 10% Protestant population when you partitioned from the UK and you now have 3%. I’d be staying stum if we had done that

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

We wouldn’t have needed any agreement either if we had replicated what the south done. ie set up systems so as the minority population dropped to 3%. It’s why Americans don’t have to worry about 1st nation people or Australia don’t need to worry about aboriginals.

It’s hardly something to boast about that you had a 10% Protestant population when you partitioned from the UK and you now have 3%. I’d be staying stum if we had done that

Trying to slip in the lies you got found out on several times before?

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

meh.....record of the south armagh bridage stands upto scrutiny

What was it,the RUC didnt do foot/drive patrols for quarter of a century


During the mass breakout of the maze,they stayed inside the police cordens/stop zones for an hour and half longer at the pickup point than orginally asked to


By any virtue,their name and reputation can go down in irish history and will be talked about/taught in schools for the next 50 years here

And we’ll all ignore the fact the were sectarian scumbags

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Jesus i dont now tbh (though i have issue to believe it happened),il try and find out.....

though i know he got a black eye in a pub years ago....back when glennane gang were in their pomp shooting up pubs etc


A masked group of ira men entered a pub to issue a statement (was a video recorder there) and people at the bar assumed it was another attack and fought back againest the masked men....imagine getting to say,ya gave slab a shiner :pac:


There is a v.good article from an undercover reporter,who got an interview with him and took part in at least one aborted attack at tail end of the troubles.....its v.good reading and insight into why ceasefire was bought into so well(lads wanted something else for their kids etc) without the usual prejudice

....and he’s happy that his 30 years of terror led to Conor Murphy becoming a british minister in a nice suit? Lol

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Trying to slip in the lies you got found out on several times before?

Are my stats wrong? You know me. I’ll apologise if that’s the case

Massive reduction in the minority population in south verses a solid increase in the minority population on the north

I look forward to your stats rather than your dancing in the head of a pin

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Are my stats wrong? You know me. I’ll apologise if that’s the case

Massive reduction in the minority population in south verses a solid increase in the minority population on the north

I look forward to your stats rather than your dancing in the head of a pin

A reduction but not because we changed the voting system to set up a sectarian bigoted state.

You have been shown all the data and the reasons. It's your problem if you want to continue to lie. And it is others problem if they want to believe you.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A reduction but not because we changed the voting system to set up a sectarian bigoted state.

You have been shown all the data and the reasons. It's your problem if you want to continue to lie. And it is others problem if they want to believe you.

It's an argument I've heard made quite a few times in certain circles.

Now I don't know if it is a self aware and intentional misrepresentation, to (wrongly of course) suggest that if the Irish state did it, then what happened in the North wasn't an injustice, but rather just how things were done at the time. Maybe it is that, or maybe it is the opposite, an odd, unintentional belief held to fend off cognitive dissonance around acknowledgement and guilt for what happened.

Either way, Downcow will try and crudely smush together easily explained statistical trends and add in some anecdotal stories of some of the horrible things that did happen and try and suggest it is the same as the absolute systemic issues that existed in the North.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

It's an argument I've heard made quite a few times in certain circles.

Now I don't know if it is a self aware and intentional misrepresentation, to (wrongly of course) suggest that if the Irish state did it, then what happened in the North wasn't an injustice, but rather just how things were done at the time. Maybe it is that, or maybe it is the opposite, an odd, unintentional belief held to fend off cognitive dissonance around acknowledgement and guilt for what happened.

Either way, Downcow will try and crudely smush together easily explained statistical trends and add in some anecdotal stories of some of the horrible things that did happen and try and suggest it is the same as the absolute systemic issues that existed in the North.

He has done it so often it is tired and lazy old smush.

What is interesting is that the partitionists never take part in refuting his lazy assertions. The necessary 'alliance' enforcing silence again.