How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

feargale wrote: »

From an article by Hugo McNeill in today's Irish Times:

"Neither the time nor the circumstances are right for a Border poll on Irish unity. Many of those calling most loudly have done little to create the circumstances in which it could work. A crucially important aspect of the Belfast Agreement remains unfulfilled.
The promotion of mutual respect and understanding between the communities in Northern Ireland and across these islands. This has major consequences for any debate on unity."

At this time when people North and South are being laid low by covid it is utterly pathetic to be talking about a United Ireland. By the time this pandemic is finished Ireland may well be united when there is nobody left to divide it.

The other end of the spectrum is no better. Twelve months ago, six months ago, yesterday and today the obvious way to address the pandemic was to follow New Zealand with an all-Ireland approach and a Berlin Wall type bar on travel in and out of the island. It couldn't be done, because the Dublin government are running scared before Michael O'Leary, and because the DUP would cut off their own noses to spite their faces. If Ryanair abandoned Ireland the harm to the economy would be a fraction of the damage that has ensued. Young Paisley offered the alternative of a UK plus Ireland bubble, arguing that New Zealand, after all is two islands. How absurd can one get? There are swathes of New Zealand with little or no population. To couple ourselves with an island with a population of over 60 million is too ridiculous for words.

It is clear that both SF and the DUP have priorities over and above combatting this virus which threatens to overwhelm us and which has killed and continues to kill thousands

Hugo would be an After The Apocalypse man then?

Is that Hugo, the former rugby player, by the way?

feargale

JasonStatham wrote: »

Man, what a hack.

What kind of an inane contribution is that? Have you a point to make?

BonnieSituation

feargale wrote: »

What kind of an inane contribution is that? Have you a point to make?

It's as inane as "Now is not the time" tbf. When will it ever be the time?

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's as inane as "Now is not the time" tbf. When will it ever be the time?

Bit OTT on the virus too.

Ireland may well be united when there is nobody left to divide it

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bit OTT on the virus too.



:rolleyes::rolleyes:

It's the virus now.

So we get over the virus.

Then we're told there's no money.

Then the economy rebounds.

We'll be told that we don't want to shock the precarious economy. On and on it goes.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's the virus now.

So we get over the virus.

Then we're told there's no money.

Then the economy rebounds.

We'll be told that we don't want to shock the precarious economy. On and on it goes.

Hugo might not have liked this article over the weekend

feargale

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hugo would be an After The Apocalypse man then?

Is that Hugo, the former rugby player, by the way?

You won't be glib about the apocalypse if covid bites you in the arse.

Yes he's the rugby player married to, heaven forbid, a FG woman. No doubt you'll be able to tell us which of those is the greater disqualificationnin the eyes of the troglodytes. And his ancestors came from the Glens. Say, instead of shooting the messenger, why don't you pay attention to what he says?

FrancieBrady

feargale wrote: »

You won't be glib about the apocalypse if covid bites you in the arse.

Yes he's the rugby player married to, heaven forbid, a FG woman. No doubt you'll be able to tell us which of those is the greater disqualificationnin the eyes of the troglodytes. And his ancestors came from the Glens. Say, instead of shooting the messenger, why don't you pay attention to what he says?

I didn't disqualify him anywhere Feargale...just wondered. He was a mighty rugby player, remember him well.

There are many opinions, I don't buy his. No biggie. Did you think people would just give up because he published his opinion?

feargale

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's the virus now.

So we get over the virus.

Then we're told there's no money.

Then the economy rebounds.

We'll be told that we don't want to shock the precarious economy. On and on it goes.

Exactly. You have no plan for what happens if and when a United Ireland materialises.
Go ahead then and have your border poll, and see the result. Because right now it's not going to pass and a negative result will push the issue back for decades. But that won't worry SF so long as they can keep the question alive.
Of course you don't see it like that. You believe your border poll will be able to bypass those pesky unionists. The same old self- delusion. 26 counties would be a stepping stone. The northern state wouldn't be viable ( they apparently never heard of Gibraltar or the Falklands.)

Natterjack from Kerry

Geniune question here folks, but just for those in the republic please, who are angling for a border poll and/or a UI : why do you want it ? What is the interest in a united Ireland for you ? What and to whom are the benefits that makes it important to you. Just to try to understand where the motivation for you comes from.

BonnieSituation

feargale wrote: »

Exactly. You have no plan for what happens if and when a United Ireland materialises.
Go ahead then and have your border poll, and see the result. Because right now it's not going to pass and a negative result will push the issue back for decades. But that won't worry SF so long as they can keep the question alive.
Of course you don't see it like that. You believe your border poll will be able to bypass those pesky unionists. The same old self- delusion. 26 counties would be a stepping stone. The northern state wouldn't be viable ( they apparently never heard of Gibraltar or the Falklands.)

Jesus Christ, you're fairly well at it tonight Ferg.

Is there any need for such aggression?

Kermit.de.frog

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Geniune question here folks, but just for those in the republic please, who are angling for a border poll and/or a UI : why do you want it ? What is the interest in a united Ireland for you ? What and to whom are the benefits that makes it important to you. Just to try to understand where the motivation for you comes from.

The ending of partition and the full integrity of the national territory of the island of Ireland as one country :cool:

Junkyard Tom

feargale wrote: »

"A crucially important aspect of the Belfast Agreement remains unfulfilled. The promotion of mutual respect and understanding between the communities in Northern Ireland and across these islands. This has major consequences for any debate on unity."

This is 'love thine abuser' shit and HMcN is oblivious to the main issue which is partition itself. Partition empowered counter-revolutionary forces in the form of a semi-theocratic state in the south and a rotten sectarian shithole in the north.

In the south the theocratic state is as good as gone. In the north you still have sneering, hateful, spiteful, Unionists trying to dominate nationalists and engineer a community wrecking hard border well into the 21st Century.

HMcN, and everyone like him, needs to quit being mealymouthed and pick a side, stand with those who don't want a UI (DUP, UVF, elements within FG etc), or stand with those who do, because that's how this shit plays out.

FrancieBrady

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

Geniune question here folks, but just for those in the republic please, who are angling for a border poll and/or a UI : why do you want it ? What is the interest in a united Ireland for you ? What and to whom are the benefits that makes it important to you. Just to try to understand where the motivation for you comes from.

Genuinely think we can build an island devoid of the divisions. Partition has not worked and will never work. I think we can do way way better.

Yeah_Right

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The ending of partition and the full integrity of the national territory of the island of Ireland as one country :cool:

How does that benefit my wife and I living and working in Dublin?

Fionn1952

Yeah_Right wrote: »

How does that benefit my wife and I living and working in Dublin?

Sorry, you're expecting other people to vote for what is best for you and your wife rather than what is best for themselves?!

FrancieBrady

Yeah_Right wrote: »

How does that benefit my wife and I living and working in Dublin?

I'm alright Jackism? Jesus, where would we be, or where would any country be if that attitude was allowed to prevail.

BonnieSituation

Yeah_Right wrote: »

How does that benefit my wife and I living and working in Dublin?

This is a new angle for the Partitionist.

Natterjack from Kerry

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The ending of partition and the full integrity of the national territory of the island of Ireland as one country :cool:

Thats just a restating of what would happen. Whats the interest is what I am trying to understand.

downcow

The pathetic arrogance of the last few posts. These posters are suggesting that their desire for a United ireland is out of some benevolence to their fellow man.
Haha. The fantasy reaches a whole new level here.
Guys, have a wee think about what yous are saying.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Genuinely think we can build an island devoid of the divisions. Partition has not worked and will never work. I think we can do way way better.

There arent any divisions in the republic. And no jurisdictional divisions in NI.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm alright Jackism? Jesus, where would we be, or where would any country be if that attitude was allowed to prevail.

That is a fair comment if you were referring to one country. But in this case, it is two. Are you saying southerners should have a responsibility to solve the problems (in itself an assumption) in another state ? Why ? And what motivates them ? Is it simply altuisim that motivates it to wish to be the solution to the divisions of the 1.8M of its neighbours ?

FrancieBrady

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

There arent any divisions in the republic. And no jurisdictional divisions in NI.

I knew I was wasting my time. I won't make the same mistake again.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

The pathetic arrogance of the last few posts. These posters are suggesting that their desire for a United ireland is out of some benevolence to their fellow man.
Haha. The fantasy reaches a whole new level here.
Guys, have a wee think about what yous are saying.

If you believed you could be part of making somewhere better, would you not do it?

Junkyard Tom

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

There arent any divisions in the republic. And no jurisdictional divisions in NI.

Our nation was divided by the threat of internecine terrorism by Unionists and then all out war by the British government. Those were wrongs, morally, that need to be put right.

The British state continues to be a danger to the well-being of our nation as has become patently clear with the threat of physical division of our people having to be negotiated away in the face of Brexit.

Finty Lemon

When was Ireland last simultaneously United and Independent? I am struggling; perhaps the students of history on here can define it? Did it deliver prosperity and peace?

FrancieBrady

Finty Lemon wrote: »

When was Ireland last simultaneously United and Independent? I am struggling; perhaps the students of history on here can define it? Did it deliver prosperity and peace?

Why would that matter to people who want to look to the future?

Is there qualifying terms before you can spot an issue and try to solve it? Partition has wreaked untold damage and continues to do so. It is now affecting the UK and the rest of the EU.

There is a better way for almost everyone. Belligerent Unionism is now coping with the fact that the rest of the UK will move on (shaft them if being brutally honest) without them and so will the rest of the island, if it decides on unity as it's future.

BonnieSituation

Finty Lemon wrote: »

When was Ireland last simultaneously United and Independent? I am struggling; perhaps the students of history on here can define it? Did it deliver prosperity and peace?

Oof. I think Finty feels like he has a big oul gotcha coming on.

When was the last time Partitionists had a coherent argument other than shouting "No"?

When will they start accepting that aligning themselves with the bigoted and belligerent Unionists and Loyalists?

I can't wait to see that campaign come together.

Natterjack from Kerry

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I knew I was wasting my time. I won't make the same mistake again.

Do you mean there is no real benefit or justification for pursuing a united Ireland policy ?

Fionn1952

Finty Lemon wrote: »

When was Ireland last simultaneously United and Independent? I am struggling; perhaps the students of history on here can define it? Did it deliver prosperity and peace?

I've answered this repeatedly on here.

Culturally and in law, Ireland was united for centuries before occupation. Politically it was rarely entirely unified, as we existed as a feudal society before occupation. Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair was the last High King without opposition, which would bring us up to the Norman invasion.

Did it deliver prosperity and peace? Depends on what you're comparing it to. In modern terms, absolutely not.....but surely no one would be silly enough to try to compare a society from over 800 years ago to a modern one, right?