How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I never heard it. Best the SF crowd could come up with is a wiki which references a SF person saying it,


Nobody else So no its not a well known phrase

Based on the history of this thread others have raised this point, to you as well Bonnie and you came up with the same lame excuses.

If people are constantly asking what it is, does that not suggest it is not well known????????

Own what you are. You can't be redefined out of it.

The word has been defined repeatedly for you and still you're going on and on about it.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

All of your examples can be dealt with in other ways. An UI is not by default the best solution.

We could use the money to invest in ICU beds, extra staff etc. Diverting funds away from tje health service to fund an UI could make us less prepared for another pandemic.

Backstop down the Irish Sea will solve a lot of issues.

As long as the British play ball. Do they look like they will to you? What happens if the relationship with the EU deteriorates?

A whole unified Ireland is the best defence we can get to another pandemic. Look at island experiences around the world this time. As long as you don't let rugby fans, from areas crippled by the pandemic, in needlessly off course.

Shefwedfan

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Own what you are. You can't be redefined out of it.

The word has been defined repeatedly for you and still you're going on and on about it.

You went down the same path with the other poster when questioned :P

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As long as the British play ball. Do they look like they will to you? What happens if the relationship with the EU deteriorates?

A whole unified Ireland is the best defence we can get to another pandemic. Look at island experiences around the world this time. As long as you don't let rugby fans, from areas crippled by the pandemic, in needlessly off course.

Another aspect of a pandemic is the ability to deal with it such as capacity in hospitals. An UI wouldn't make us immune (excuse the pun) to one. Diverting money to fund NI would obviously have an negative effect on this part of dealing with a pandemic

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why you ignoring the fact that the wiki quotes prominent historians, newspapers and SDLP members using it shows your desperation here.

Report it's use Shef. I think you are bluffing here.

Where??



Show me. Simple question. If used then a google would bring up thousands of article/press releases etc with it. Not a wiki page

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Where??



Show me. Simple question. If used then a google would bring up thousands of article/press releases etc with it. Not a wiki page

Noted Unionist historian using it:

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/what-did-churchill-really-think-about-ireland-1.459557

Here it is being used in the HOC (if you find a shinner in there you have a major scoop!)

https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200102/cmhansrd/vo021028/debtext/21028-20.htm

Loads of uses out there.
Your argument is a busted flush Shef.

downcow

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am liking the way people are totally disregarding the unionist. Is that not what the English did to the Catholics and started the whole troubles?

How stupid would it be to disregard a whole community and then start off another load of bombing? seems like a few people on here would just like to forget about that issue and just ignore it. Sensible people will ask that question.

Plus all your polls, did any of them ask about having a united Ireland but your tax would increase by an extra 5-10% oper year to pay for Norther Ireland? if not then they are irrelevant results in Rep of Ireland.

Few people burying head in sand around her.

Yeah, spot on. Quite a few here would like to wish us away. Things are fairly settled at the minute. We have very tight equality laws - in fact I'm not sure anywhere else in the world has this tight equality laws.
None of us can predict the future, but it is very naïve to think that almost 1 million Unionists, who have a very strong sense of belonging, community, loyalty, unity, etc. will be comfortable and quiet if this United island fantasy project were ever to materialise. I think you will have very noisy neighbours

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Just my personal choices anyway

Fcuk the uda,and all those who side with them,

they killed dozens at tail end of the troubles with help of security forces and got no push back for it,a utd ireland is ultimate 2 fingers to them


Only for likes of martin doherty,they would likely killed dozens that night in dublin,and you still have people here side with them

I am interested in how you single out the UDA for your attention. I have no problem putting the UDA and the IRA in the same sentence and saying that both were inherently sectarian

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Killed mates of me dads and relatives of mine

Now your free to politically side with them in opposing a utd ireland all you want and hide behind emojis....but your their equal when you side with em imo

So do I take it then that it is only your dad's mates matter and that the innocent people who the IRA killed are in a different category in your eyes?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Yeah, spot on. Quite a few here would like to wish us away. Things are fairly settled at the minute. We have very tight equality laws - in fact I'm not sure anywhere else in the world has this tight equality laws.
None of us can predict the future, but it is very naïve to think that almost 1 million Unionists, who have a very strong sense of belonging, community, loyalty, unity, etc. will be comfortable and quiet if this United island fantasy project were ever to materialise. I think you will have very noisy neighbours

Alliances beginning to form between Unionists and southern partitionists. Is this the start of something one wonders or the natural end of something?

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Tbh lad...you just have to accept being called it,as it politely describes those who support partition


Quite why this upsets you is something,only for you to sort

(It isnt a race either though )

I have came to this a bit late and missed a few posts, but I am equally baffled with your definition of partitionist.
The United Nations, and any other reputable such body, recognise an international border between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Both of these are recognised as nations.
You have a very what sense of mentality if you are calling the people who wish to maintain these two nations as they are, as the partitioists. Yet you seem to think that those who have an objective to partition the United Kingdom somehow are not partitionists.
Am I reading this wrong?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And in the context of "Sinn Féin don't own reunification; so is it possible for you to talk about anything related to a UI without bringing SF into it"?

I thought we had agreed Reunification was a nonsense term with regard to this island. Certainly try to unify it if you wish, but don't try and suggest it was ever voluntarily unified.

downcow

Deleted User wrote: »

Blame who ya want mate....it deosnt work,NI is a failed experment....time to pull.the plug


NI is in existance 100 years and unionist think so little of nationlists,they wont allow an irish language act,it will never change,its time to try something new....united ireland

That's not how it works. You signed up to the GFA. Therefore it will be a democratic decision and no plugs will be pulled

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you've nothing to worry about then?

You're safe to continue in the bosom of the big house and eat the scraps.

Let's examine a very current situation with regard to eating the scraps.

I like many many thousands of others are currently on 80% of my wages for sitting at home and doing the garden. We have been promised this will continue until at least the beginning of November, with very strong hints that it will continue further for certain sectors.
I work for an all Island organisation and the situation seems to be very different with your government. I understand you are getting something like £350 per week and you don't know what happens at the end of June.
Now I am not knocking your government for that, everyone is doing what they can afford. But talk of me eating scraps from the UK is a total nonsense with no credibility

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You've just landed in here. You have not read the whole thread nor its previous incarnations.

No one is disregarding unionists. You've just decided that that's the case.

Beligerent unionists however, they're on the scrap heap.

Could you define a belligerent Unionist for me?
Just a simple criteria would be fine

Yeah_Right

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You've just landed in here. You have not read the whole thread nor its previous incarnations.

You really seem to like telling people what they have and haven't read and whether they're allowed to take part in the discussion. I guess it's the nationalist way, only discuss a UI if you think it should happen. If anyone has any doubts about it, then you want them to stay silent. Unfortunately that's not how it works here.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I have came to this a bit late and missed a few posts, but I am equally baffled with your definition of partitionist.
The United Nations, and any other reputable such body, recognise an international border between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Both of these are recognised as nations.
You have a very what sense of mentality if you are calling the people who wish to maintain these two nations as they are, as the partitioists. Yet you seem to think that those who have an objective to partition the United Kingdom somehow are not partitionists.
Am I reading this wrong?

Here we go.

Yeah, I'm a unionist. Because I want a United Ireland. And I'm a Loyalist because I'm loyal to my family.

---

Seriously, what's the point of debating anything of substance when you have to wade through this crap every week.

People with wafer thin arguments dancing on the head of a pin about definitions of words that have been in use for a longer time than us posters have been on this earth.

Seriously, it's pointless discussing anything with you.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Let's examine a very current situation with regard to eating the scraps.

I like many many thousands of others are currently on 80% of my wages for sitting at home and doing the garden. We have been promised this will continue until at least the beginning of November, with very strong hints that it will continue further for certain sectors.
I work for an all Island organisation and the situation seems to be very different with your government. I understand you are getting something like £350 per week and you don't know what happens at the end of June.
Now I am not knocking your government for that, everyone is doing what they can afford. But talk of me eating scraps from the UK is a total nonsense with no credibility

You're literally boasting about the scraps you're receiving from the UK government!

I'm not receiving €350 per week for one. I'm on my full salary and working remotely fortunately.

If we're discussing government responses to the pandemic though, looking at current death rates, I'm certainly glad to be outside the UK. Even should I be in a position where I required financial support, I'd greatly prioritise the health of my family over an extra few quid.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I thought we had agreed Reunification was a nonsense term with regard to this island. Certainly try to unify it if you wish, but don't try and suggest it was ever voluntarily unified.

I agreed nothing of the sort with you or your beligerent ilk.

Wind your neck in.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

That's not how it works. You signed up to the GFA. Therefore it will be a democratic decision and no plugs will be pulled

And no one will wage a violent campaign against the reunified State, isn't that right? Because at heart you're a democrat.

BloodyBill

mehico wrote: »

No of course I don't want to disregard the Unionist community but to answer the first part of your question, yes unionist voting trends have changed.

Catholic votes have changed too. The last serious survey showed 60% of the people in Northern Ireland would vote to remain in the UK.

FrancieBrady

BloodyBill wrote: »

Catholic votes have changed too. The last serious survey showed 60% of the people in Northern Ireland would vote to remain in the UK.

'Serious survey' because it confirmed what you want to believe?

BonnieSituation

Yeah_Right wrote: »

You really seem to like telling people what they have and haven't read and whether they're allowed to take part in the discussion. I guess it's the nationalist way, only discuss a UI if you think it should happen. If anyone has any doubts about it, then you want them to stay silent. Unfortunately that's not how it works here.

And the rest of my post said what? Awful habit you have.

Do you know the context? Did you read the previous contributions by Shef? How could I have been out of order when the person in question made a sweeping statement, much like you are now.

Where's the substantive debate to be had, when there's so many bad faith actors?

If the Partitionist grouping have the status quo that they seek why must they argue in such bad faith? It seems that the tenuous grasp to the status quo is not really what they want. They want to shut down proper debate with those of us who want to see our country reunited. Apparently that's not a legitimate aim and it must be snuffed out at every opportunity with arguments over definitions, a particular political party, and now with someone who solely posts about how someone posts.

What hope is there of a decent discussion in that case.

mehico

BloodyBill wrote: »

Catholic votes have changed too. The last serious survey showed 60% of the people in Northern Ireland would vote to remain in the UK.

I'm not disregarding your survey but I was referring to voting trends in elections.

FrancieBrady

Outside influences continuing to point in one direction - the breakup of the UK.

https://twitter.com/britainelects/status/1269184848926781440

downcow

mehico wrote: »

I'm not disregarding your survey but I was referring to voting trends in elections.

There is very little change in voting patterns, and what changes there are, appear to be around policies other than the maintenance of the UK.
Here's the best grass I can find. If you wanted to use the small changes to say something about desire for a united island, then you need to bear in mind that 75% of Alliance voters have said they want to remain in the UK - they are been called others in most data.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/12/13/northern-ireland-ge2019-results-roundup/

downcow

downcow wrote: »

There is very little change in voting patterns, and what changes there are, appear to be around policies other than the maintenance of the UK.
Here's the best grass I can find. If you wanted to use the small changes to say something about desire for a united island, then you need to bear in mind that 75% of Alliance voters have said they want to remain in the UK - they are been called others in most data.

https://sluggerotoole.com/2019/12/13/northern-ireland-ge2019-results-roundup/

I have just looked again at the graph and it is interesting to note percentage vote at starting point 2010 and most recent election 2019
these are approximately just looking at the graph:
DUP up 6%
Sinn Fein down 3%
UUP down 3%
Alliance up 10%
SDLP down 2%

Given that 75% of Alliance party voters support remaining in the United Kingdom, those must be very depressing trends for anyone wanting this landmass united

jh79

Where are the lost SF and SDLP votes going, Independents and PBP?

downcow

I surprised myself when I looked at those stats about how healthy the UK vote is.

This is just anecdotal, but I know numerous SDLP and Sinn Fein voters locally for whom there is zero chance that they will vote for a united Ireland in a poll. I cannot think of one single Unionist I know who will not vote to maintain the UK.

So I still maintain that the large poll that the Belfast Telegraph reported fairly recently which put the figure of those who would support a united Ireland at approximately 25%, as fairly accurate if not a little inflated - as I do think there are many who will answer the question romantically but when they are in the polling station will use their heads

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

We have very tight equality laws - in fact I'm not sure anywhere else in the world has this tight equality laws.

Indeed, it was interesting to see the DUP cowering behind the principle of consent in an Agreement they tried to destroy when they were being gently floated away from Britain. Unionists will benefit from the rigorous equality laws that were used to emasculate the rotten Orange statelet you once ruled when the place is being run by non-unionists. When there is a UI the GFA will become the de-facto constitution for Unionist equality as a minority.

I think you will have very noisy neighbours

You can shit on your own doorstep all you want but you'll not be forcing the British state to come back and rescue you from yourselves.