How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You aren't hearing that either Rob. What you are hearing is that the UK has some of the poorest regions in western Europe.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/dec/10/number-of-europes-poorest-regions-in-uk-more-than-doubles

The point is Francie,beyond some head in the clouds notions you have no credible idea of paying for or who would/should pay for a UI.
Do you even acknowledge the unique position NI is in now makes a UI even less likely?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

The point is Francie,beyond some head in the clouds notions you have no credible idea of paying for or who would/should pay for a UI.
Do you even acknowledge the unique position NI is in now makes a UI even less likely?

Just like 'Ireland' or 'Britain' Rob, it will NEVER be 'paid for'. I.E. It's a ridiculous notion to think it will.
All we have to be able to do is fund our own country as we do at the moment.

lurleen lumpkin

RobMc59 wrote: »

Do you even acknowledge the unique position NI is in now makes a UI even less likely?

The same unique position that unionists are trying to torpedo?

RobMc59

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

The same unique position that unionists are trying to torpedo?

I believe in the Union and can see the advantages and opportunities available to NI.The Union will remain intact and NI will prosper.Those Unionists against it will come to realize this is in their country`s interests.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I believe in the Union and can see the advantages and opportunities available to NI.The Union will remain intact and NI will prosper.Those Unionists against it will come to realize this is in their country`s interests.

The 'unique position' is fine if the desire for unity disappears. I don't think it will, as there will be more problems down the road.

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What advantages deos the union offer


And why are the otber 26 counties,not looking to get back into the union

Well there is a row up here today about southerners slipping up here to get their vaccines. Personally I have no problem with them doing so as UK have committed to share extra vaccines with less well off countries. So I suppose it saves transporting them.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Well there is a row up here today about southerners slipping up here to get their vaccines. Personally I have no problem with them doing so as UK have committed to share extra vaccines with less well off countries. So I suppose it saves transporting them.

Firstly, citation needed.

Second, even in the face of blatant facts, living in one of the poorest regions of Western Europe, you just can't help floating around with a false sense of superiority.
EDIT: just to correct myself, this should read Northern Europe.



.....but you still haven't acknowledged that Kate Hoey was your secret weapon!!!!

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

Well there is a row up here today about southerners slipping up here to get their vaccines.

Haven't seen anything in the news about it, do you have a link?

JasonStatham

RobMc59 wrote: »

Well..We`re constantly hearing how considerably richer you are in Ireland than us urchins in the UK..perhaps YOU should pay for it!

Ok. *Thumbs up.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I believe in the Union and can see the advantages and opportunities available to NI.The Union will remain intact and NI will prosper.Those Unionists against it will come to realize this is in their country`s interests.

So it hasn't prospered til now?

Sounds like a reason to leave the Union to me.

Natterjack from Kerry

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So it hasn't prospered til now?

Sounds like a reason to leave the Union to me.

There is a lot more to life than prosperity.

Ireland spent 80 years, after leaving the UK, not prospering at all. A true case of a failed state. Would you consider it was a mistake to leave, and that it should have sought to rejoin ?

BonnieSituation

Natterjack from Kerry wrote: »

There is a lot more to life than prosperity.

Ireland spent 80 years, after leaving the UK, not prospering at all. A true case of a failed state. Would you consider it was a mistake to leave, and that it should have sought to rejoin ?

So you put no value on Nationalist aspirations?

What's so great about Unionism and the Union?

FrancieBrady

Something to help Unionism understand why they are and will be ignored on the Protocol::

The DUP petition to trigger article 16 only collected 142,418 votes across the entire planet. Only 75,306 signees were from NI, or put another way only 22.5% of NI Leave voters, just under 6% of eligible NI voters, and only 4.3% of all NI constituents.

I said at the time that the reaction to that petition showed that the Unionist parties are not leading their people. The people are diverging from them. Is there any other way to look at those figures?

Nqp15hhu

You would think if people were proposing getting rid of your country they would offer compromises. But instead we see arrogance from people who think they know more about NI than we do ourselves and are telling us what to do with our own country and how things will be.

I personally find it so bizarre this obsession southerners have with a United Ireland. Ok I could understand if somebody from Donegal wanted it, but not with someone from hundreds of miles from Northern Ireland proper.

You are free to your views but it just seems to be for ideological purposes rather than genuine desire.

It is out of touch with NI people’s view of the south. And this is true when you look at our views, people from the south spend a lot more time talking about or thinking about NI than the other way round.

I personally don’t feel comfortable with the arrogance and lack of willingness to compromise or listen to our viewpoints. An example of this would be nationality, so many times I have been told that I am Irish and that I have to get over it. Little is done to accept or understand the Northern Irish identity.

It just seems to be this idea of telling people from NI, you are wrong. Rather than any genuine desire to embrace us for our viewpoints and what we bring to the table. I have only met a few southerners who are willing to do that.

Nqp15hhu

downcow wrote: »

Well there is a row up here today about southerners slipping up here to get their vaccines. Personally I have no problem with them doing so as UK have committed to share extra vaccines with less well off countries. So I suppose it saves transporting them.

People from ROI, especially Donegal take advantage of NI being in the U.K. but treat us poorly the other way.

An example is the lockdown. They are not allowed to drive more than 5k from their home but come over here to evade the lockdown. I notice this in Derry where you have a tonne of Donegal cars in Sainsburys, I am pretty sure the vast majority of those cars are travelling at least 10 miles to get there, considering the store is 4 miles from the border. I did hear a woman talking about coming on flooded Glenties roads a few months ago, so that’s at least 40 miles of driving to get to a supermarket. Which seems a bit much.

I have also noticed a lot of Donegal cars driving up my road. I live about 30 miles from the border. (I seen a lot of Donegal drivers on the A26 road last summer which is well away from Donegal. You have to wonder, why are they taking that route to get to Belfast?) What are they doing touring about here in a pandemic when they are supposed to be going no further than 5K from their home? During the March lockdown it was even more obvious, you would have Donegal car after Donegal car driving up the road - nobody local was allowed to go anywhere, including to the local forest but they could take free reign. And this is miles from the border, heaven knows what it was like in Derry and strabane.

This does frustrate me. That frustration is worsened when I hear that people from NI are fined from crossing the border. So it’s one rule for Donegal people and another for us.

And I have to wonder what for? Why must Stormont step on eggshells with Donegal people?

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

You would think if people were proposing getting rid of your country they would offer compromises. But instead we see arrogance from people who think they know more about NI than we do ourselves and are telling us what to do with our own country and how things will be.

I personally find it so bizarre this obsession southerners have with a United Ireland. Ok I could understand if somebody from Donegal wanted it, but not with someone from hundreds of miles from Northern Ireland proper.

You are free to your views but it just seems to be for ideological purposes rather than genuine desire.

It is out of touch with NI people’s view of the south. And this is true when you look at our views, people from the south spend a lot more time talking about or thinking about NI than the other way round.

I personally don’t feel comfortable with the arrogance and lack of willingness to compromise or listen to our viewpoints. An example of this would be nationality, so many times I have been told that I am Irish and that I have to get over it. Little is done to accept or understand the Northern Irish identity.

It just seems to be this idea of telling people from NI, you are wrong. Rather than any genuine desire to embrace us for our viewpoints and what we bring to the table. I have only met a few southerners who are willing to do that.

You'll be delighted to hear that many on this thread are from border counties then so, both sides. You'll also be filled with joy to hear that the idea of compromise has been discussed extensively on this thread, and while there are degrees of acceptance on various individual things, I don't think we've had anyone suggest they're unwilling to compromise should it make people from a Unionist background more comfortable becoming part of the new Irish state. Discussions around flags, anthems, commonwealth membership, Unionist representation in the Dáil and even federalisation to maintain Stormont have all been discussed....perhaps in your 24 hours of contributing to the thread, you've missed a few things.

Once more though, we have this hive minding of people. NI people's view? No, you mean your view. I'm an NI person and don't share your views at all. I suppose a hundred years of thinking you own the place will do that.

BonnieSituation

A lot of woe-is-me in here today from unionists and their apologists? What gives?

Nqp15hhu

No all I have seen is arrogance and pumpous behaviour laughing at Unionists and Unionist view points. Especially on Twitter.

And I’m not sure of points of origin, Kermit de Frog is not from anywhere near Northern Ireland. Neither is Francis Brady or Junkyard Tom.

BonnieSituation

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No all I have seen is arrogance and pumpous behaviour laughing at Unionists and Unionist view points. Especially on Twitter.

And I’m not sure of points of origin, Kermit de Frog is not from anywhere Northern Ireland. Neither is Francis Brady or Junkyard Tom.

Uh oh Francie. Maybe he's from Lackey and got lost?

---

What does the provenance of posters have to do with anything?

RobMc is from England and Downcow's oul lad is from Donegal. Not to mention Our friend from Kerry.

Is there some purity test required to comment or discuss the defining political change of our lifetimes?

You've done nothing but complain and moan about arrogance while making sweeping statements about everyone around you.

Catch yourself on a bit so.

FrancieBrady

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No all I have seen is arrogance and pumpous behaviour laughing at Unionists and Unionist view points. Especially on Twitter.

And I’m not sure of points of origin, Kermit de Frog is not from anywhere near Northern Ireland. Neither is Francis Brady or Junkyard Tom.

About 500 yrds from where I am sitting now.

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No all I have seen is arrogance and pumpous behaviour laughing at Unionists and Unionist view points. Especially on Twitter.

And I’m not sure of points of origin, Kermit de Frog is not from anywhere Northern Ireland. Neither is Francis Brady or Junkyard Tom.

I'm not sure where two of those posters are from, but I'm from the Northern side of the border, and Francie is from a border county in ROI.


How about instead of whinging and moaning with your woe is me (thanks Bonnie, a highly apt description) card, you actually give examples? Being frank, your contributions to the thread have been as arrogant and pompous as anything I've seen. You offer nothing in the way of solutions, only complaints and problems. You complain that Nationalists wish to bring about a change, but when challenged about what you'll do to make the status quo remain appealing, you abdicate responsibility. You literally offer nothing and expect people to bend over backwards to your point of view.

You had your chance with that, you made a balls of it. People are looking to their futures; flags, sashes and marching won't put food on the table, so Unionism will have to convince people of its continued relevance and the benefit of remaining part of the Union should it wish to continue being so.

Nqp15hhu

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'm not sure where two of those posters are from, but I'm from the Northern side of the border, and Francie is from a border county in ROI.


How about instead of whinging and moaning with your woe is me (thanks Bonnie, a highly apt description) card, you actually give examples? Being frank, your contributions to the thread have been as arrogant and pompous as anything I've seen. You offer nothing in the way of solutions, only complaints and problems. You complain that Nationalists wish to bring about a change, but when challenged about what you'll do to make the status quo remain appealing, you abdicate responsibility. You literally offer nothing and expect people to bend over backwards to your point of view.

You had your chance with that, you made a balls of it. People are looking to their futures; flags, sashes and marching won't put food on the table, so Unionism will have to convince people of its continued relevance and the benefit of remaining part of the Union should it wish to continue being so.

Why are you associating of this with me? Your gross generalisations are showing your ignorance big time.

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Why are you associating of this with me? Your gross generalisations are showing your ignorance big time.

Oh no, I'm not generalising at all. I'm directing those comments at you personally based on your contributions and posts on the thread.

I suppose growing up in a mixed background, in the most mixed county in the country I wouldn't really have any idea what I'm talking about though.... 😂

Nqp15hhu

No - not sure why you would be associating the Orange Order and bitter old men with Unionism. That is the fault of Northern Irish Protestantism and is something they have to sort out.

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

No - not sure why you would be associating the Orange Order and bitter old men with Unionism. That is the fault of Northern Irish Protestantism and is something they have to sort out.

.....because the Orange Order and bitter old men are part of Unionism. Not only that, in the political representation of Unionism, they are massively overrepresented.

Much like you don't have to do anything to convince people on the merits of Unification, it sure as hell isn’t my responsibility to disabuse people of that perception of Unionism.

As long as Arlene Foster, Sammy Wilson, Nigel Dodds, Jeffrey Donaldson, Ian Paisley Jr and Gregory Campbell remain the loudest voices in Unionism, holding the most significant political positions in Unionism, associations with the Orange Order and bitterness are entirely justified.

Nqp15hhu

They are not people I hold in high regard nor do my views align with theirs.

I have never voted for the DUP. So there’s not much I can do about their behaviour.

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

They are not people I hold in high regard nor do my views align with theirs.

I have never voted for the DUP. So there’s not much I can do about their behaviour.

Of course there is, you can promote alternative opinions and be an ambassador for the NI you wish for.

So far all you've done is moan about Republicans though, which is right out of the DUP playbook.

Nqp15hhu

Well that would be akin to the European Union asking for solutions to the awful NI Protocol and declining every single one of them.

Junkyard Tom

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

And I’m not sure of points of origin

Ireland. Born and raised in the top bit and live in the bottom bit.

Fionn1952

Nqp15hhu wrote: »

Well that would be akin to the European Union asking for solutions to the awful NI Protocol and declining every single one of them.

Holy totally unrelated point, Batman.

Can you please explain to me how exactly being a good ambassador for the NI you wish to see is the same as a rules based union applying its rules (in an already reduced manner) to a non member.....with the agreement of that non member?