How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Yes, and you only know that Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair could be anglicised to Roderic from quickly looking him up on Wikipedia to try and feign knowledge of the topic.

So I take your p*ss poor baiting as an acknowledgement that you know absolutely nothing about the topic, and you'd prefer to just derail rather than openly admit that?

Fair enough, but it isn't subtle. Nobody forced you to engage on the topic, so you could just not share an opinion if you don't know what you're talking about.

I disagree with you that Ireland was united before it was part of the UK.Beyond that I freely admit to looking up the king.Using the name Roderic wasn't meant as in insult or to cause any upset.if you monitor my posts you will know I always refer to the Irish leader by his correct name Taoiseach for example.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Would you still argue the same.

Yes. There'd be fewer of us dead, for a start, and we might have been able to close the ports and airports more successfully.

UK is not a nation by the way. NI isn't a nation either. Ireland is a nation however and it disregards the British border you cherish but will not be restoring to its former 'Finchleyness'.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I disagree with you that Ireland was united before it was part of the UK.Beyond that I freely admit to looking up the king.Using the name Roderic wasn't meant as in insult or to cause any upset.if you monitor my posts you will know I always refer to the Irish leader by his correct name Taoiseach for example.

And what was that person referred to in the title of the page you looked him up on, Rob? If the king was referred to as Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair on that page (with a passing note that it could be anglicised as Rory or Roderic O'Conor), why would you not make the effort to refer to him by his actual name? You were just baiting.

I'm aware you looked him up. That's precisely my point; you don't actually know very much about the topic and ten minutes of Googling to try and cobble together something to support a preconceived bias towards a position you wish to take (with no regard for the historical veracity of whatever you can find) is a poor substitute for a lifetime of interest in the subject. Your few minutes on Wikipedia and Google hasn't (and can't) furnish you with sufficient information to discuss hundreds and hundreds of years of history with even the slightest degree of credibility. The fact that you hadn't even heard of the last High King before weighing in demonstrates this perfectly. You decided you agreed with whatever those of a Unionist persuasion would likely think without even knowing the most basic of facts about the topic.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Your country did sign up to the GFA, which states British OR Irish OR both. As much as your country has trouble keeping up its international agreements, I'm Irish by birth, being born in Co. Fermanagh, on the island of Ireland, not the island of Britain as you are well aware.

Do you tend towards anglicising the names of anyone who isn't English? If so, why were you referring to Jurgen Klopp in a previous one of your posts rather than being consistent and anglicising that to George? You know full well that it was a low grade baiting attempt.

And still, you've contributed nothing of any value regarding the actual topic of whether Ireland was united before the Norman invasion. One could grow to suspect that you don't actually have any knowledge of the topic.

Fionn. You say you want facts and yet you say you were born Irish in Co Fermanagh. Impossible.
You could accept the offer of an Irish passport up until gfa, and since that you could CHOOSE TO BECOME Irish as of right, but you were born british. The courts have made that crystal clear. But then sure on here it’s seems you can just make up stuff to suit.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Fionn. You say you want facts and yet you say you were born Irish in Co Fermanagh. Impossible.
You could accept the offer of an Irish passport up until gfa, and since that you could CHOOSE TO BECOME Irish as of right, but you were born british. The courts have made that crystal clear. But then sure on here it’s seems you can just make up stuff to suit.

I've been Irish since birth, Downcow.....then again, the British do like claiming things they shouldn't as their own.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yes. There'd be fewer of us dead, for a start, and we might have been able to close the ports and airports more successfully.

UK is not a nation by the way. NI isn't a nation either. Ireland is a nation however and it disregards the British border you cherish but will not be restoring to its former 'Finchleyness'.

Well I wish they would tell the guards that. Lots of International visitors can’t cross the border for fear of arrest and deportation
I need a green card to cross it.
I need to get my money changed into foreign currency.
The UN tell me it is an international border.
The road markings, traffic signs, post boxes all change. Even the accent.
Your country has even a different official language
Your national broadcaster is different
Your flag and anthem is different.
Is it right you don’t have soda bread, potatoe bread or gravy half and halfs?
Someone told me you don’t even have traybakes

Lol sure there is no border. You and Brandon Lewis would be good company.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I've been Irish since birth, Downcow.....then again, the British do like claiming things they shouldn't as their own.

There was a programme on the other night about a 50 year old man who swears he is a baby. Wears nappies and sucks a bottle. It doesn’t make him a baby though.

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

There was a programme on the other night about a 50 year old man who swears he is a baby. Wears nappies and sucks a bottle. It doesn’t make him a baby though.

Are you telling us we're not allowed to be Irish?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

There was a programme on the other night about a 50 year old man who swears he is a baby. Wears nappies and sucks a bottle. It doesn’t make him a baby though.

And no matter how many times you stick your fingers in your ears, unless you've got a very large tug boat, NI still isn't part of Britain. I respect your British identity and culture Downcow, as I already mentioned the last time this discussion came up, I staunchly defended your right to say you are not Irish, despite being born on the island of Ireland.

Just out of curiosity, would you tell a German citizen, living in Germany, born to two German parents who happened to be born in France that they are not in fact German?!

Fr D Maugire

How ironic is it that Henry Cooke, who did most to take the Ulster Presbyterians down the road of hating Catholics is described as an Irish Presbyterian. Fact of the matter is that most Protestants saw themselves as being Irish up until the mid 19th century. All that changed was Catholics finally got some actual equality and suddenly these same Protestants were now identifying as British. I mean they couldn't be Irish if Catholics were Irish. The level of intolerance and about turns done by Unionists is just hilarious.

Duckworth_Luas

downcow wrote: »

There was a programme on the other night about a 50 year old man who swears he is a baby. Wears nappies and sucks a bottle. It doesn’t make him a baby though.

I really like riddles.

So he swears he's a baby, wears diapers like a baby, sucks a bottle like a baby, but he's not a baby.

Is it the DUP chief whip at Westminster?

dd973

Downcow seems unable to accept that the North East of the island is facing demographic and political change, his type had their 'Protestant statelet for a Protestant people' for nearly 50 years, if they were a bit nicer to the 'Taigs/Fenians/Gippos' then maybe they'd have seen Northern Ireland as a viable option instead of a gerrymandered and corrupt police state. Reap what you sow as they say.

downcow

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

Are you telling us we're not allowed to be Irish?

No. You are allowed to be Irish. The Roi government always allowed you, and things got even better for you after gfa because then it became a right you can claim rather than an offer you accept.
But a test case in court was very clear - if you are born in ni you are born british. You can then enact you right to claim your Irish nationality at any point you wish. You will remain british unless you officially rescind it. What’s not to like about that lol.

The facts are sometimes a pain in the arse. Aren’t they.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

And no matter how many times you stick your fingers in your ears, unless you've got a very large tug boat, NI still isn't part of Britain. I respect your British identity and culture Downcow, as I already mentioned the last time this discussion came up, I staunchly defended your right to say you are not Irish, despite being born on the island of Ireland.

Just out of curiosity, would you tell a German citizen, living in Germany, born to two German parents who happened to be born in France that they are not in fact German?!

I don’t know what that guy would be. But if the courts said he was french at birth but had the right to claim German nationality, then I would tell him just that. I wouldn’t mislead him by telling him he was not french and that he did not need to do anything and he would just be German by default. That would be a ridiculous thing to say. Oh wait!

downcow

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

How ironic is it that Henry Cooke, who did most to take the Ulster Presbyterians down the road of hating Catholics is described as an Irish Presbyterian. Fact of the matter is that most Protestants saw themselves as being Irish up until the mid 19th century. All that changed was Catholics finally got some actual equality and suddenly these same Protestants were now identifying as British. I mean they couldn't be Irish if Catholics were Irish. The level of intolerance and about turns done by Unionists is just hilarious.

Those Protestant are terrible people. If only they could become Catholics, they would then be nice and fluffy

downcow

Duckworth_Luas wrote: »

I really like riddles.

So he swears he's a baby, wears diapers like a baby, sucks a bottle like a baby, but he's not a baby.

Is it the DUP chief whip at Westminster?

Very good lol. It paints a wonderful picture.
....and Arlene wheeling his pram

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know what that guy would be. But if the courts said he was french at birth but had the right to claim German nationality, then I would tell him just that. I wouldn’t mislead him by telling him he was not french and that he did not need to do anything and he would just be German by default. That would be a ridiculous thing to say. Oh wait!

The British courts say British by birth due to a legislative gap in their implementation of the GFA (a fact that formed the basis of the UK Home Office's legal argument, on their third appeal of the EdS case, stating "
"A treaty HMG is a party of does not alter the laws of the United Kingdom" (openly acknowledging that their interpretation flies in the face of the obligations they agreed to in the GFA).

Fortunately the Irish government are much more trustworthy with regards to keeping their obligations with regards to international treaties and it is reflected in the laws that matter to me as an Irish citizen, living in Ireland.

The British government pretending they aren't bound by their international treaties is hardly without precedent, and I'll continue on in my life as an (exclusively) Irish citizen.

And I'll continue standing up for your right to consider yourself exclusively British (despite not being born in Britain and having been born and spent I'd presume the vast majority of your life living on an island called Ireland), because that is what I agreed to when I voted in support of the GFA.

bobbysands81

downcow wrote: »

There was a programme on the other night about a 50 year old man who swears he is a baby. Wears nappies and sucks a bottle. It doesn’t make him a baby though.

It’s precisely that attitude towards “Irishness” that will actually speed up a United Ireland.

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

No. You are allowed to be Irish. The Roi government always allowed you, and things got even better for you after gfa because then it became a right you can claim rather than an offer you accept.
But a test case in court was very clear - if you are born in ni you are born british. You can then enact you right to claim your Irish nationality at any point you wish. You will remain british unless you officially rescind it. What’s not to like about that lol.

The facts are sometimes a pain in the arse. Aren’t they.

The fact that someone like me born in Derry would be referred to as Irish from birth and then identify as Irish pretty much as soon as they could write does seem to be a pain the arse for you. It's something very straightforward that a lot of us here have been trying to tell you.

Maybe go away and try to understand that simple fact and when you come back you might have a bit more success trying to debate with people here.

Junkyard Tom

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It’s precisely that attitude towards “Irishness” that will actually speed up a United Ireland.

This is it exactly. There is no point in trying to find a reasonable Unionism, the closest thing to it is Alliance party type neutrality.

Unionists should stop fooling themselves that Ireland was ever 'as British as Finchley' because no part ever was. They could paint every kerb in the north red-white-and-blue and put a Union Fleg on every lamppost and it would still be Ireland.

Growing up time for Unionism.

RobMc59

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

The fact that someone like me born in Derry would be referred to as Irish from birth and then identify as Irish pretty much as soon as they could write does seem to be a pain the arse for you. It's something very straightforward that a lot of us here have been trying to tell you.

Maybe go away and try to understand that simple fact and when you come back you might have a bit more success trying to debate with people here.

It hasn't gone unnoticed that the most vocal on these UI/anti British threads regarding this subject are usually British by birth and have chosen to identify as Irish in later life.
Do you acknowledge that you were British by birth and have exercised your right to identify as Irish?

lurleen lumpkin

RobMc59 wrote: »

It hasn't gone unnoticed that the most vocal on these UI/anti British threads regarding this subject are usually British by birth and have chosen to identify as Irish in later life.
Do you acknowledge that you were British by birth and have exercised your right to identify as Irish?

Yes absolutely. I was British until my early twenties. Who are the other vocal ex-British in the thread?

BloodyBill

RobMc59 wrote: »

It hasn't gone unnoticed that the most vocal on these UI/anti British threads regarding this subject are usually British by birth and have chosen to identify as Irish in later life.
Do you acknowledge that you were British by birth and have exercised your right to identify as Irish?

The only two guys that complain about anti Irish abuse in Britain are from Derry. The footballers McLean and Duffy. Its all abit odd.

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

It hasn't gone unnoticed that the most vocal on these UI/anti British threads regarding this subject are usually British by birth and have chosen to identify as Irish in later life.
Do you acknowledge that you were British by birth and have exercised your right to identify as Irish?

So the IRA were British. Gerry Adams is British. Martin McGuinness
was British.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

So the IRA were British. Gerry Adams is British. Martin McGuinness
was British.

Weren't you originally from NI Tom?Which would make you British by birth.

downcow

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It’s precisely that attitude towards “Irishness” that will actually speed up a United Ireland.

I note your name. And it’s terrorists like the one you eulogise with your name, who ensured a UI (if ever) was delayed by generations.
Actually I wonder if I called myself Lenny Murphy or michael stone, would I be in contravention of the board rules? And to the best of my knowledge neither of those were thieves as well as being terrorists.

downcow

lurleen lumpkin wrote: »

The fact that someone like me born in Derry would be referred to as Irish from birth and then identify as Irish pretty much as soon as they could write does seem to be a pain the arse for you. It's something very straightforward that a lot of us here have been trying to tell you.

Maybe go away and try to understand that simple fact and when you come back you might have a bit more success trying to debate with people here.

You have now got it. The penny has dropped.

It is a fact that someone like you born in Derry can be referred to as Irish from birth and can then identify as Irish pretty much as soon as you can write

Now we are in agreement

Of course if you want to be very factual, you were born in Londonderry, but derry is a logical shortened affectionate nickname for it

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

Weren't you originally from NI Tom?Which would make you British by birth.

Haha yeah, I have a UK birth cert, which makes me as British as Gerry Adams and James McClean.

You lads really are a hoot.

downcow wrote: »

I note your name. And it’s terrorists like the one you eulogise with your name

He was British, stop complaining about British people.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

This is it exactly. There is no point in trying to find a reasonable Unionism, the closest thing to it is Alliance party type neutrality.

Unionists should stop fooling themselves that Ireland was ever 'as British as Finchley' because no part ever was. They could paint every kerb in the north red-white-and-blue and put a Union Fleg on every lamppost and it would still be Ireland.

Growing up time for Unionism.

The phrase ‘british as finchley’ is silly and typically Maggie. It misunderstands the UK and misses the richness of our diversity. It would be just as silly to say it about Glasgow Cardiff or Leeds

lurleen lumpkin

downcow wrote: »

You have now got it. The penny has dropped.

It is a fact that someone like you born in Derry can be referred to as Irish from birth and can then identify as Irish pretty much as soon as you can write

Now we are in agreement

Of course if you want to be very factual, you were born in Londonderry, but derry is a logical shortened affectionate nickname for it

Glad the penny finally dropped for you.