How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Constantly gloating when brussels pulls another arrogant stunt,usually in an attempt to cover for their own ineptitude is nothing to be proud of Tom.They're just using Ireland as a pawn but you can't see it.

The 'Brussels' conspiracy again.

Tell me this Rob, when the UK was a happy and willing member of the EU, suggesting things like the Single Market etc...did this nefarious and separate 'Brussels' thing exist in the background or was it simply the member states meeting and formulating policy in Brussels?

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Constantly gloating when brussels pulls another arrogant stunt,usually in an attempt to cover for their own ineptitude is nothing to be proud of Tom.They're just using Ireland as a pawn but you can't see it.

You'll note who brought the topic up....in a gloating manner.....and completely without reproach from you, Rob.

The mask is gone at this point, may as well just acknowledge that you're a rabid Brexit supporter who tried to play the conflicted remainer but couldn't keep a story straight or hold off on the Daily Express type posts well enough to actually be allowed to discuss the topic on it's appropriate thread.

I'd suggest Downcow discuss the matter there, as apart from the usual big talk, little action, pretend it never happened chain of events we're all very used to with both of your, 'predictions', it isn't particularly relevant to Unification, however I'd imagine Downcow would last about as long as you did on that thread.

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

Constantly gloating when brussels pulls another arrogant stunt,usually in an attempt to cover for their own ineptitude is nothing to be proud of Tom.They're just using Ireland as a pawn but you can't see it.

We're no pawn. If anything we're using our membership of the EU to enhance our sovereignty in this mess created by the Tories/DUP.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

You'll note who brought the topic up....in a gloating manner.....and completely without reproach from you, Rob.

The mask is gone at this point, may as well just acknowledge that you're a rabid Brexit supporter who tried to play the conflicted remainer but couldn't keep a story straight or hold off on the Daily Express type posts well enough to actually be allowed to discuss the topic on it's appropriate thread.

I'd suggest Downcow discuss the matter there, as apart from the usual big talk, little action, pretend it never happened chain of events we're all very used to with both of your, 'predictions', it isn't particularly relevant to Unification, however I'd imagine Downcow would last about as long as you did on that thread.

I imagine anyone who voted remain is distraught with the way the tories have handled brexit but the antics of von der leyen and co have been a real eye opener to many moderate British people.What is also disappointing but sadly no surprise is Ireland's blind obedience of their every whim.
The behaviour of brussels is relevant to this thread,I'm surprised you suggest otherwise considering the amount of unpleasant crowing when they pull another underhanded stunt.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The 'Brussels' conspiracy again.

Tell me this Rob, when the UK was a happy and willing member of the EU, suggesting things like the Single Market etc...did this nefarious and separate 'Brussels' thing exist in the background or was it simply the member states meeting and formulating policy in Brussels?

I haven't suggested a brussels conspiracy,It's plain to see that brussels rules the EU with France and Germany as top dogs ,everyone else doffing their caps to them.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We're no pawn. If anything we're using our membership of the EU to enhance our sovereignty in this mess created by the Tories/DUP.

If you believe that Tom how do you explain von der leyen even considering triggering article sixteen for one nano second if she respected Ireland?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I haven't suggested a brussels conspiracy,It's plain to see that brussels rules the EU with France and Germany as top dogs ,everyone else doffing their caps to them.

Like when we stopped the imposing of Art 16? That kind of hat doffing?

Look the reason you cannot survive in serious threads on this subject is because you depend, like other Brexiteers, on a fantasy of nefarious German and French elites secretly pulling strings in 'Brussels'.

The EU is not perfect but it most certainly does not conform to your Daily Mail/Express type tropes.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like when we stopped the imposing of Art 16? That kind of hat doffing?

Look the reason you cannot survive in serious threads on this subject is because you depend, like other Brexiteers, on a fantasy of nefarious German and French elites secretly pulling strings in 'Brussels'.

The EU is not perfect but it most certainly does not conform to your Daily Mail/Express type tropes.

Jease francie,that's virtually a cut and paste of fionn' s earlier post.
What's this obsession with other threads all about?I've been sanctioned before but so have others,you included I believe ,I wouldn't mention it only you're being drawn in to fionns strange fascination with my posts.
Regarding article 16,research it yourself on a reputable site to see exactly who talked von der leyen down as your version is incorrect.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Jease francie,that's virtually a cut and paste of fionn' s earlier post.
What's this obsession with other threads all about?I've been sanctioned before but so have others,you included I believe ,I wouldn't mention it only you're being drawn in to fionns strange fascination with my posts.
Regarding article 16,research it yourself on a reputable site to see exactly who talked von der leyen down as your version is incorrect.

Why don't you link to these 'reputable sites'?

I was echoing Fionn, because I too have seen how you have debated the issue of Brexit. Very transparent.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I imagine anyone who voted remain is distraught with the way the tories have handled brexit but the antics of von der leyen and co have been a real eye opener to many moderate British people.What is also disappointing but sadly no surprise is Ireland's blind obedience of their every whim.
The behaviour of brussels is relevant to this thread,I'm surprised you suggest otherwise considering the amount of unpleasant crowing when they pull another underhanded stunt.

Schrödinger's Ireland it is then so.....one minute it's nefarious Leo, making the EU put the sea border in place with, 'threats', the next it's little cap doffing Ireland doing whatever it is told. Make up your mind.

One thing is for sure, the worst treatment Ireland has received from any EU member during it's existence pales in comparison to the treatment Ireland received as members of your, 'precious Union'.


For the record, the unpleasant crowing was instigated by Downcow.....who I still note remains beyond reproach no matter what nonsense gets posted. I only highlight it because despite your suggestion that Francie is echoing my post (a strange way of saying he agrees with me), he and I have strongly disagreed on many things on here and have both called eachother out at various points when we do.....yet yourself and Downcow seem to just show up to strongly agree with eachother and ironically accuse others of precisely what you've usually been doing yourself.

FrancieBrady

As he's the next likely leader of FF this will be worth tuning into.

https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/possible-political-economic-and-legal-consequences-of-irish-reunification-tickets-146510909073

downcow

I gave way to you guys several pages back when I disagreed with a poster who told me ni were in the single market and customs union. I allowed myself to be browbeat into submission and accepted you must be correct becuase so many of you were saying it.
Well I was personally told by an MP and a lawyer tonight that I am correct and you guys are wrong. We left the single market and customs union with the rest of the UK.
Just demonstrates again that because republicans shout loudly it doesn’t mean they are correct.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

I gave way to you guys several pages back when I disagreed with a poster who told me ni were in the single market and customs union. I allowed myself to be browbeat into submission and accepted you must be correct becuase so many of you were saying it.
Well I was personally told by an MP and a lawyer tonight that I am correct and you guys are wrong. We left the single market and customs union with the rest of the UK.
Just demonstrates again that because republicans shout loudly it doesn’t mean they are correct.

Presumably that was Jim Allister, known for his entirely reasonable nature when it comes to matters concerning the EU. I can assure you that NI remains part of the single market.....that's the whole bloody reason for for sea border checks! NI is legally not part of the customs union, it is a de facto entry point though. This stuff is literally the entire feckin purpose of the NI Protocol. If you don't understand this, you are entirely unqualified to have even the most basic of discussions on the topic.

Why always the smoke and mirrors with mystery sources, instead of just getting right to the point where you're discredited? Why always the song and dance.

In fact, why depend on anyone telling you anything with regards to NI's positioning? The documentation is freely available.

Like I said earlier, it'll be the octogenarian who cried wolf soon enough. A perfect example of someone who'd be complaining about the rain while your leg continues to be pissed on.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

I disagreed with a poster who told me ni were in the single market

Goods? Yes.

Services? No.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I gave way to you guys several pages back when I disagreed with a poster who told me ni were in the single market and customs union. I allowed myself to be browbeat into submission and accepted you must be correct becuase so many of you were saying it.
Well I was personally told by an MP and a lawyer tonight that I am correct and you guys are wrong. We left the single market and customs union with the rest of the UK.
Just demonstrates again that because republicans shout loudly it doesn’t mean they are correct.

Is one of the MP's and lawyers who are taking the case on the GFA? Because they are wrong about that ....as well as on what they told you tonight.

Fionn1952

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Goods? Yes.

Services? No.

God forbid there was some sort of document published which contained all this information.....or perhaps news sources engaged to pass this information to the general public sans legalese.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is one of the MP's and lawyers who are taking the case on the GFA? Because they are wrong about that ....as well as on what they told you tonight.

We all know he's talking about Jim. No idea why there always has to be the beating about the bush

Kermit.de.frog

The tories - the "conservative and unionist party" led by Boris stuffed NI unionists like a Christmas turkey.

Why would anyone give their allegiance to that?

There is no going back. There is a full fledged and ever enhancing border in the Irish Sea.

We didn't do that to them. The EU and US didn't do it to them. They did it to themselves.

Unionists have been betrayed and sold down the river (and it's been this way since the Anglo Irish Agreement). They don't care in GB, they really don't.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

God forbid there was some sort of document published which contained all this information.....or perhaps news sources engaged to pass this information to the general public sans legalese.



We all know he's talking about Jim. No idea why there always has to be the beating about the bush

You are wrong on so many accounts. And this is exactly how you and a few mates brow beat me last time.

So your first error. Jim allister is not an MP. So he was hardly the MP I was talking to.

You say it is crystal clear, yet Tom has just broken ranks with you in his last post. He is not as wrong as you but he is still wrong.

We left the single market and customs union with the U.K. it is the whole bloody point and reason for the protocol. If we were in the single market and customs union then Eu wouldn’t be demanding a ni protocol.

And even the protocol only covers food/manufacturing/etc. It doesn’t cover the bigger area of services.

So another lesson well learnt for me. Don’t just roll over when Fionn and mates shout loud and stamp their feet. Shouting and numbers doesn’t make them correct.

downcow

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The tories - the "conservative and unionist party" led by Boris stuffed NI unionists like a Christmas turkey.

Why would anyone give their allegiance to that?

There is no going back. There is a full fledged and ever enhancing border in the Irish Sea.

We didn't do that to them. The EU and US didn't do it to them. They did it to themselves.

Unionists have been betrayed and sold down the river (and it's been this way since the Anglo Irish Agreement). They don't care in GB, they really don't.

Of course we have been betrayed a few times. None of it equals the betrayals that NI republicans have had to endure and not least the gfa.
‘Betrayal’ has seen them live under British rule for 100s of years, but in particular the last 100.
The gfa has seen them lay down their arms and accept they cannot defeat unionism violently. They were promised lots but have ended up administering british rule in owc. They are cap in hand to ‘the brits’ as seen again this week.

So yes, we unionists have been betrayed but it pales compared to the betrayal ni republicans have endured.

Ted_YNWA

Fionn1952 wrote: »

His feelings got hurt when he got banned from all those other threads, poor guy.

Fionn1952 wrote: »

You'll note who brought the topic up....in a gloating manner.....and completely without reproach from you, Rob.

The mask is gone at this point, may as well just acknowledge that you're a rabid Brexit supporter who tried to play the conflicted remainer but couldn't keep a story straight or hold off on the Daily Express type posts well enough to actually be allowed to discuss the topic on it's appropriate thread.

I'd suggest Downcow discuss the matter there, as apart from the usual big talk, little action, pretend it never happened chain of events we're all very used to with both of your, 'predictions', it isn't particularly relevant to Unification, however I'd imagine Downcow would last about as long as you did on that thread.

Mod

And I suggest you leave your personal issues with Downcow at the door. Don't post personal attacks on him (or any other poster) on thread. Next transgression will see your access to thread revoked.

Kermit.de.frog

downcow wrote: »

Of course we have been betrayed a few times. None of it equals the betrayals that NI republicans have had to endure and not least the gfa.
‘Betrayal’ has seen them live under British rule for 100s of years, but in particular the last 100.
The gfa has seen them lay down their arms and accept they cannot defeat unionism violently. They were promised lots but have ended up administering british rule in owc. They are cap in hand to ‘the brits’ as seen again this week.

So yes, we unionists have been betrayed but it pales compared to the betrayal ni republicans have endured.

I'm sorry you don't seem to understand.

Unionists have been quite explicitly told that time is up. You need to get in to negotiations with Dublin.

What other way do you need to be told?

It's patently obvious they want you out.

The British, to be fair, are trying to tell you in the nicest way possible.

AdrianG08

The current situation reminds me of a school bully who completely leaves one of his scrote followers in the lurch and humiliates him.

The follower then proceeds to lash out at the low hanging fruit who happen to be in the same yard, rather than take his anger out on his beloved leader

Everyone elses fault of course, even though he barely knows you exist.

Junkyard Tom

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

We didn't do that to them. The EU and US didn't do it to them. They did it to themselves.

No no no. On a psychological level anything is better than coming to terms with the crushing pain of unrequited love. You see Unionists, like a browbeaten spouse, will blame the individual who their partner 'cheated' with behind their back.

That's us, we seduced Unionists' 'partner'. We're the tramps who broke up the marriage and if someone is getting blamed then it's us tramps Kermit, you and me and the rest of them.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

No no no. On a psychological level anything is better than coming to terms with the crushing pain of unrequited love. You see Unionists, like a browbeaten spouse, will blame the individual who their partner 'cheated' with behind their back.

That's us, we seduced Unionists' 'partner'. We're the tramps who broke up the marriage and if someone is getting blamed then it's us tramps Kermit, you and me and the rest of them.

Tom,the UK is a Unionist country so minor disagreements amongst us is preferable to 'shut up and do as you're told ' which is the default edict from brussels to its members(with the exception of France and Germany of course who run the show with an iron fist).

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,the UK is a Unionist country so minor disagreements amongst us is preferable to 'shut up and do as you're told ' which is the default edict from brussels to its members(with the exception of France and Germany of course who run the show with an iron fist).

I think you'll find that the opposite is literally the case.

RobMc59

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I think you'll find that the opposite is literally the case.

The way brussels are behaving over NI is ridiculous.I understand 'rules is rules'but some of the excruciatingly petty things insisted on is ridiculous.
This link regarding shipments of plants from the mainland to NI is an example.
https://www.gardenforum.co.uk/headlines/why-cant-garden-centres-in-ni-buy-plants-seeds-from-gb/

ancapailldorcha

RobMc59 wrote: »

The way brussels are behaving over NI is ridiculous.I understand 'rules is rules'but some of the excruciatingly petty things insisted on is ridiculous.
This link regarding shipments of plants from the mainland to NI is an example.
https://www.gardenforum.co.uk/headlines/why-cant-garden-centres-in-ni-buy-plants-seeds-from-gb/

One wonders why the UK government proposed and agreed to such a terrible deal.

ancapailldorcha

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Unionists have been betrayed and sold down the river (and it's been this way since the Anglo Irish Agreement). They don't care in GB, they really don't.

You're missing the point. They could have secured a good deal for NI if they'd have worked with Theresa May. Instead, they settled for a bribe and undermined her at very turn.

They have themselves to blame just as much as the Conservative party.

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,the UK is a Unionist country so minor disagreements amongst us is preferable to 'shut up and do as you're told ' which is the default edict from brussels to its members(with the exception of France and Germany of course who run the show with an iron fist).

The EU spoke of invoking A16, Ireland said 'don't do this' and we were listened to as we're an EU partner. As for Unionism?

Anglo Irish Agreement? Enacted despite cries of betrayal from Unionists.
Same sex marriage? Passed over the heads of the DUP
Abortion? Passed over the heads of the DUP.
NIP? Enacted despite DUP/UUP cries of betrayal.

That's off the top of my head.

You know this. You're just here for the sport.

Sunny Disposition

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The EU spoke of invoking A16, Ireland said 'don't do this' and we were listened to as we're an EU partner. As for Unionism?

Anglo Irish Agreement? Enacted despite cries of betrayal from Unionists.
Same sex marriage? Passed over the heads of the DUP
Abortion? Passed over the heads of the DUP.
NIP? Enacted despite DUP/UUP cries of betrayal.

That's off the top of my head.

You know this. You're just here for the sport.

Unionism is fascinating in a strange way. Absolutely venerate Britain, sometimes mention 'the mainland', but they are totally out of step with it.

Opinions that people might have held 40 years ago are still completely acceptable at the very top of unionism, but not anywhere else in the UK or Ireland. Ulster Protestants love for the UK is totally unrequited, which is kind of sad, but somehow they never seem to move on.

Its a complex identity, often shown in very negative ways like support for the Orange Order (which doesn't alllow Catholics), huge bonfires and support for very outdates social positions. It just doesn't seem to regenerate at all.