How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Hasn't the DUP (Edwin Poots) and Jamie Bryson tried those threats? Didn't work. The protocol remains.

Leo has a two-year start. So I have no idea if their threats will work as well

downcow

bonzothedog wrote: »

Hey downcow - while I think what you say is true to an extent there is definitely another tranche of people in the south who would be very open to bringing 2 countries together and your history/culture into a new country. I for one bristle at overt nationalism of any kind - I support the Irish rugby team, I would shout for Northern ireland in any game except playing us. I would shout for Ulster rugby all day long, I do a lot of business with a prominent protestant family in the North who I would consider friends.
I am a gaeilic Irish speaker at the same time and love hurling also, I detest Sinn Fein and their anti business rhetoric and so do alot of people in the South - I'm very mixed up as you can see --there is room for us all here on this island.

Fair play to you. I respect you appreciation of diversity.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Leo has a two-year start. So I have no idea if their threats will work as well

There was never going to be a land border for a host of reasons the primary one being that we were not going to take the hit for Brexiteers foolishness. We had the power to see to it that a sea border was the chosen option. Brexiteers had no power to resist if they wanted Brexit and Unionists had no power at all to resist it...as we have seen.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

There was never going to be a land border for a host of reasons the primary one being that we were not going to take the hit for Brexiteers foolishness. We had the power to see to it that a sea border was the chosen option. Brexiteers had no power to resist if they wanted Brexit and Unionists had no power at all to resist it...as we have seen.

Do you live on some alternative universe Francie.
No land border?
Separate currency, separate tax regime, separate governments, different flags, anthems, official languages. Different school systems, different accents, do I need to go on?

You really do love in a fantasy land.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Do you live on some alternative universe Francie.
No land border?
Separate currency, separate tax regime, separate governments, different flags, anthems, official languages. Different school systems, different accents, do I need to go on?

You really do love in a fantasy land.

The border between the UK and the EU is in the Irish Sea downcow, it was NEVER going to be on the land.
We had the power to ensure that. Unionism didn't have the power to stop the sea border and haven't as we have seen. The protocol is staying.

Rodin

downcow wrote: »

Do you live on some alternative universe Francie.
No land border?
Separate currency, separate tax regime, separate governments, different flags, anthems, official languages. Different school systems, different accents, do I need to go on?

You really do love in a fantasy land.

He means no physical border. As you know.
The accents don't change when one steps over the border. Regional accents aren't boundary obeying.

Rodin

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The border between the UK and the EU is in the Irish Sea downcow, it was NEVER going to be on the land.
We had the power to ensure that. Unionism didn't have the power to stop the sea border and haven't as we have seen. The protocol is staying.

Because GB don't give a f.u.ck about NI....
NI are like a jilted lover. There'll be a lot of hurt and pain but they'll end up in a better, more loving relationship with the next one. Maybe their one true love is right under their nose.

FrancieBrady

Rodin wrote: »

He means no physical border. As you know.
.

He knows that. He has no answer to why the border with the EU is in the Irish Sea and is staying there and why NI has been effectively sundered from the UK, I suspect.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

He knows that. He has no answer to why the border with the EU is in the Irish Sea and is staying there and why NI has been effectively sundered from the UK, I suspect.

I'd love to know how the comparison between my accent and a Ballyshannon accent versus Downcow's own accent proves anything....

BonnieSituation

Rodin wrote: »

Because GB don't give a f.u.ck about NI....
NI are like a jilted lover. There'll be a lot of hurt and pain but they'll end up in a better, more loving relationship with the next one. Maybe their one true love is right under their nose.

Northern Unionists are the jilted lover.

FrancieBrady

Fly the flag to strengthen the Union and fight Scottish Independence except in NI...Jim Allister will burst.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-waves-flags-fight-scottish-independence/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1616619758

JimmyVik

Fionn1952 wrote: »

It isn't that I expect to see it going one way or the other, it's that I don't expect it to be reflective of the general public, and it'll be down to the general public to vote. You have a huge selection bias; people that care enough about it to discuss it on an online forum. The bias cuts both ways, you'll get people who strongly oppose it and people who strongly favour it.....Great, what useful information can we gain from finding out that people who care enough to discuss unification on an online forum and enough to vote on a poll on said forum have strong opinions on Unification?

My point is that it isn't indicative of the great number of people who occupy the grey area between, 'I'd vote for Unification no matter what' and, 'I'll oppose Unification no matter what'.....and it is the people in that grey area who will ultimately decide. You've done the equivalent of taking a poll at a DUP AGM and a SF Ard Fheis....you'll certainly get some numbers out of it, you could examine trends in those numbers and make projections based on them, but the polling method is so flawed to render the analysis and projections entirely useless.

This. I didnt vote in it because I am biased just from the reaction i got in this thread when I said I dont think it will pass because people will not vote the way they say they will in public.
So I thought it wouldnt be fair for me to vote in that poll as I would vote No just to prove a point here. In real life face to face if you asked how i would vote I would say i'll vote yes. There wouldnt be too many people that i would tell that i actually would vote no.

JimmyVik

bonzothedog wrote: »

But wouldn't Boards be fairly reflective of the wider public? I have no political affiliation and am a bit on the fence about re-unification but find the subject kind of compelling the way it seems to have just morphed into the conversation and even unionists seem to accept that a border poll is inevitable. This is a massive shift brought about primarily by Brexit.

I think you are wrong saying that it is like taking a poll at a SF ard fheis or a DUP equivalent. The early voting and commentary on the poll thread seems to indicate a lot more nuance actually. Most of the "No" vote is hardly coming from unionists but people who are worried about propping up the north financially or delaing with the fallout from unification.
The majority so far of the Yes vote seems to be going the way of the "Yes -in 10 years time" option which would suggest they aren't Sinn Fein voters who would probably for the "Yes - ASAP " option.

That will be what swings it. It matters more to ordinary tax payers than anything else does. I know there are passionate people but they need to see what the real issue is with an all island poll.


People saying in 10 years time are the equivalent of the people when polled in public will say "Oh i'll vote yes. Just so they dont get an earfull". ITs just easier to say you will vote yes to others. Then you can stick your real preference down in the polling booth.

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

That will be what swings it. It matters more to ordinary tax payers than anything else does. I know there are passionate people but they need to see what the real issue is with an all island poll.


People saying in 10 years time are the equivalent of the people when polled in public will say "Oh i'll vote yes. Just so they dont get an earfull". ITs just easier to say you will vote yes to others. Then you can stick your real preference down in the polling booth.

This is the equivalent of a polling booth...you are anonymous. Surprised the Yes vote is so far ahead here given the nature of the forum.

downcow

Rodin wrote: »

Because GB don't give a f.u.ck about NI....
NI are like a jilted lover. There'll be a lot of hurt and pain but they'll end up in a better, more loving relationship with the next one. Maybe their one true love is right under their nose.

Rodin I get lambasted on here when I use your metaphor. I like it though and I agree with some of what you say.
Ni is a beautiful young maiden that married a handsome big strong guy. We’ve had great times together and of course like any relationships there have been bumps in the road.
Our partner hasn’t the same interest in us as time has wore on, but he hasn’t ran off with someone else and he has maintained his marriage vows and is looking after us very well and maintaining our lifestyle.
Through our entire relationship we realise our neighbour has had the hots for us and is desperately in love with us. It’s nice to be wanted but unfortunately we don’t love him that way. We just want to be good friends. We don’t want to move in together and we’ve told him over and over again.
Our neighbour has 25 other friends that he is in a complicated swinger relationship with - which we used to swing with, but we stopped last year.

I really would like our neighbour to take no for an answer, continue to enjoy their swinging, and just have us as good friends.

I realise our neighbour feels hurt and jilted, but that’s love. We have chosen another, now please stop begging, it’s not good for you wellbeing or image.

JimmyVik

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This is the equivalent of a polling booth...you are anonymous. Surprised the Yes vote is so far ahead here given the nature of the forum.

No, its not the equivalent. Nowhere near it


I notice on the poll thread a lot of people saying Ireland can afford the North.
Once they find out what will be coming out of their own pocket for it they might think a little more about that one

downcow

Rodin wrote: »

He means no physical border. As you know.
The accents don't change when one steps over the border. Regional accents aren't boundary obeying.

I don’t think that is what he is saying. Yes currently the physical checks are on the Irish sea but as I have demonstrated the border is clearly between the two internationally recognised countries. Anything else would be rediculous

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fly the flag to strengthen the Union and fight Scottish Independence except in NI...Jim Allister will burst.

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-waves-flags-fight-scottish-independence/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1616619758

I think this is a mad counterproductive idea like something the dup would come up with. I am so glad it will not apply to ni. Would only wind up the many traditional nationalists who currently support the union.

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

No, its not the equivalent. Nowhere near it

How so?

Both are anonymous. You claim people will make a different decision in the polling booth because it is anonymous, yet here on an anonymous forum the yes side is showing a strong lead.

BTW reticence about revealing your voting intentions cuts both ways. Many Unionists may do the same in the anonymity of a polling booth. Probably balance one and other out.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think this is a mad counterproductive idea like something the dup would come up with. I am so glad it will not apply to ni. Would only wind up the many traditional nationalists who currently support the union.

You have been 'othered' again downcow. Realities.

BTW - if you support the UK union you are not an Irish nationalist. Or a republican, as you support monarchy.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How so?

Both are anonymous. You claim people will make a different decision in the polling booth because it is anonymous, yet here on an anonymous forum the yes side is showing a strong lead.

BTW reticence about revealing your voting intentions cuts both ways. Many Unionists may do the same in the anonymity of a polling booth. Probably balance one and other out.

The poll is a nonsense as it opens with rediculous assumptions eg unionists will accept it - my goodness that means I will accept it. I am actually surprised anyone in Roi will stand in the way if that list of assumptions is trus.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have been 'othered' again downcow. Realities.

BTW - if you support the UK union you are not an Irish nationalist. Or a republican, as you support monarchy.

Misquoting and misrepresenting again Francie. Where did I say otherwise?

JimmyVik

FrancieBrady wrote: »

How so?

Both are anonymous. You claim people will make a different decision in the polling booth because it is anonymous, yet here on an anonymous forum the yes side is showing a strong lead.

BTW reticence about revealing your voting intentions cuts both ways. Many Unionists may do the same in the anonymity of a polling booth. Probably balance one and other out.

Does someone really have to explain that to you?

Well here a big one for a start.
There are no consequences to clicking on a radio button on a website. There are in a polling booth.

There are lots of other reasons that im not even going to waste my time typing, because everyone surely can figure them out.

And dont forget its going to be an all island poll. The amount of unionists who might be voting a different way than you think will be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. Its not the votes North of the border that will be swinging it.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You have been 'othered' again downcow. Realities.

BTW - if you support the UK union you are not an Irish nationalist. Or a republican, as you support monarchy.

BTW - you can support the union and not support the monarchy. Millions do

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Misquoting and misrepresenting again Francie. Where did I say otherwise?

You claimed traditional nationalists support being in the UK...you cannot be an Irish nationalist and support the UK...contradiction in terms.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

BTW - you can support the union and not support the monarchy. Millions do

You cannot be an Irish nationalist and support a foreign monarchy downcow.

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

Does someone really have to explain that to you?

Well here a big one for a start.
There are no consequences to clicking on a radio button on a website. There are in a polling booth.

There are lots of other reasons that im not even going to waste my time typing, because everyone surely can figure them out.

And dont forget its going to be an all island poll. The amount of unionists who might be voting a different way than you think will be small potatoes in the grand scheme of things.

ah right. Everybody is hiding their voting intentions until the big day. Ok, if that helps you sleep I suppose.

It won't be an all Ireland poll btw...it will be 2 separate polls. And both of them must be Yes to unity. So a Unionist vote will be a big potato where there are more of them (hint - in the place where an artificial majority was created for them)

JimmyVik

FrancieBrady wrote: »

ah right. Everybody is hiding their voting intentions until the big day. Ok, if that helps you sleep I suppose.

It won't be an all Ireland poll btw...it will be 2 separate polls. And both of them must be Yes to unity. So a Unionist vote will be a big potato where there are more of them (hint - in the place where an artificial majority was created for them)

Oh Jesus. I give up.

FrancieBrady

JimmyVik wrote: »

Oh Jesus. I give up.

Well ok, might be as well as you don't seem too informed on how it will happen. You really weren't making any sense, claiming a Unionist vote would be 'small potatoes'.

Did you think the poll would be an aggregate of the whole population of the island?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You claimed traditional nationalists support being in the UK...you cannot be an Irish nationalist and support the UK...contradiction in terms.

Francie. Just for once admit when you are wrong.

Yes I used the term ‘traditional nationalist’. In ni that means someone who was reared in the nationalist community - and well you know it !