How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Of course you also see the problem on the last few pages. Some republicans say they will only be Irish language signs where the community wants them (whatever that means) and others are saying they will be in all areas and unionists will just have to suck it up.
And that’s the situation on many other questions eg will someone be able to stand trial in orish?
And you expect us to support this vague notion

Maybe read the proposed act? It was never going to be complusory.

Madeleine Birchfield

Would the Unionists allow Counites Fermanagh and Tyrone to be annexed by the RoI so that the Unionists keep their majority in Northern Ireland? After all one of the suggestion for partition in 1921 was a 4-county Ulster.

Madeleine Birchfield

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

Would the Unionists allow Counites Fermanagh and Tyrone to be annexed by the RoI so that the Unionists keep their majority in Northern Ireland? After all one of the suggestion for partition in 1921 was a 4-county Ulster.

NI deosnt work,split/redesign it,whatever way you want....it still wont work.....powersharing was a great hope/prospect,but its been an utter failure and wont ever work either



Its been a failure,rejigging it,to have unionists lord it over nationlists like they did 1922 to 1969 in a smaller area,is only gonna end the same way again?


Just pull the plug,and reunify....its only reasonable choice left,from.what i can see

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I am not saying I want any of the suggestions. I am simply pointing out that it would be rediculous for unionists to enter discussions on a hypothetical UI. Equally as rediculous as republicans entering a discussion on maintaining NIs position in the uk permanently.
It would be like asking turkeys to enter discussion on improving the range of stuffings available at Christmas

What?

The GFA provides for the roadmap to a border poll for a UI already.

Unionists have signed up to that.

Why would you not want to enter negotiations on a UI in the run up to a border poll?

It's too late for making demands. Your job is to show that the status quo is better than a UI. The days of demanding concessions are over.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Joanne Bunting and Edwin Poots might disagree Francesco...and those who voted for them.

And they're the standard by which we should measure unionists and their requirements?

Beligerent bigots like them have no place in Ireland's future. Giving them oxygen doesn't help anyone.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Well at least Blaaz is honest on this one. This is the reason we cannot countenance an Irish language act. This is just one of many questions I could ask which would demonstrate how this would be used to wind us up.
A few on here may disagree, but this is exactly the same as loyalist parades in Catholic areas - which of course no longer take place.
This would be so divisive. Every Unionist area you went into, signs would be defaced and you would know exactly where you were by how the compulsory irish signs were treated.
This request for Irish language signs everywhere is from the same people who were so insistent to remove the union flag from public buildings.
You really couldn't make it up - the hypocrisy.

This is also why you will find that every single Unionist party in Northern Ireland from the most extreme to the most moderate as opposed to an Irish language act - we simply do not trust them

No matter how many times you say it it is not the same.

Your fear of the fada is pathetic.

---

The removal of the Union flag from public buildings was to bring Northern Ireland into line WITH THE REST OF THE UK regarding its display.

---

Felt that needed to be reiterated and removed from your whataboutery pile.

StackSteevens

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'Plagiarise' you say?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/historic-deal-based-on-the-policies-of-excluded-sinn-f%C3%A9in-1.4229003

Now that, as Francie has helpfully confirmed, FG and FF are implementing SF policies, there's obviously no further requirement whatsoever for SF to participate in Southern politics.

I asume that Big Mac will shortly be moving a motion to wind up the Southern Chapter of the party on the basis that "ár lá" has now "toichfaidh-ed".

FrancieBrady

StackSteevens wrote: »

Now that, as Francie has helpfully confirmed, FG and FF are implementing SF policies, there's obviously no further requirement whatsoever for SF to participate in Southern politics.

I asume that Big Mac will shortly be moving a motion to wind up the Southern Chapter of the party on the basis that "ár lá" has now "toichfaidh-ed".

Watch FF and FG make a complete hames of it or as it more usual...completely revert to type once they get in the comfy seats.

Brendan Bendar

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And they're the standard by which we should measure unionists and their requirements?

Beligerent bigots like them have no place in Ireland's future. Giving them oxygen doesn't help anyone.

People voted for them, my friend, people voted for them.


You need to establish that piece of reality before before the shadowy figures from the windswept hills screw the place up again.

Those shadowy figures don’t give two hoots about your job or mine or anyone else’s.

Think.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I was laughing at the idea that you would be sitting there waiting to be convinced by a party you have a hate of.

That, as you know will never happen.

The border poll when it comes will have a proposal as the formulation of it...same as the GFA asked if we wanted to change the constitution.

That will be a proposal coming from the Irish government of the time. It wont be 'Edgware agin the Shinners'.

I havent a hate of them. I just laugh when I see the make believe republican useful idiots being led up the garden path by the fishwife while ex republican Scapaticci is off enjoying himself in the sun.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

People voted for them, my friend, people voted for them.


You need to establish that piece of reality before before the shadowy figures from the windswept hills screw the place up again.

Those shadowy figures don’t give two hoots about your job or mine or anyone else’s.

Think.

And because of those you feel there's a validity to their brand of bigotry and hatred?

Say the KKK stood candidates would you be so quick to say "People voted for them"?

Beligerent-Bigoted-Unionism's day is done. And it has no place in a modern society.

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

I havent a hate of them. I just laugh when I see the make believe republican useful idiots being led up the garden path by the fishwife while ex republican Scapaticci is off enjoying himself in the sun.

No you don't laugh...don't be trying to cod anyone. You cannot bear a woman delivering this...is that what all the sexist cliches, (that say more about you btw) are about?

downcow

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

Would the Unionists allow Counites Fermanagh and Tyrone to be annexed by the RoI so that the Unionists keep their majority in Northern Ireland? After all one of the suggestion for partition in 1921 was a 4-county Ulster.

I would not want to be part of a state that was dependant on a unionist majority. I am more interested in a state that we all believe in.
A few on here tell us about the terrible failure ni is. I’m not sure how you measure this but relatively speaking the residents seem pretty happy. The catholic population has flourished and hasn’t run off to live in this garden of Eden down south and prods and newcomers also seem fairly content. If that’s a failed state then I’m happy to live in a failed state.

But yes, I think those of us who love ni will consider any option should the hypothetical dreaded all-island fantasy project ever happen.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What?

The GFA provides for the roadmap to a border poll for a UI already.

Unionists have signed up to that.

Why would you not want to enter negotiations on a UI in the run up to a border poll?

It's too late for making demands. Your job is to show that the status quo is better than a UI. The days of demanding concessions are over.

Not a chance

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No matter how many times you say it it is not the same.

Your fear of the fada is pathetic.

---

The removal of the Union flag from public buildings was to bring Northern Ireland into line WITH THE REST OF THE UK regarding its display.

---

Felt that needed to be reiterated and removed from your whataboutery pile.

Tell me where in the uk it is illegal to fly the union flag. You are at your nonsense again.

Brendan Bendar

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And because of those you feel there's a validity to their brand of bigotry and hatred?

Say the KKK stood candidates would you be so quick to say "People voted for them"?

Beligerent-Bigoted-Unionism's day is done. And it has no place in a modern society.

You are inferring a lot there big man. None of it remotely implied.

I’m just keeping it real, M’kay?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I would not want to be part of a state that was dependant on a unionist majority. I am more interested in a state that we all believe in.
A few on here tell us about the terrible failure ni is. I’m not sure how you measure this but relatively speaking the residents seem pretty happy. The catholic population has flourished and hasn’t run off to live in this garden of Eden down south and prods and newcomers also seem fairly content. If that’s a failed state then I’m happy to live in a failed state.

But yes, I think those of us who love ni will consider any option should the hypothetical dreaded all-island fantasy project ever happen.

The 'catholic population' have stayed because it's their country.
It's the likes of Arlene Foster who have said she will abandon her people when things don't go her way.
Besides the catholic population started a UI process in 69, they are not known for abandoning what they start even if they have made the place much better to live in.

downcow

downcow wrote: »

Tell me where in the uk it is illegal to fly the union flag. You are at your nonsense again.

Serious strammanning going on here


That poster didnt say remotely what you implied he did and then you proceed to critise him for what your imagination said

:pac:

FrancieBrady

Deleted User wrote: »

Serious strammanning going on here


That poster didnt say remotely what you implied he did and then you proceed to critise him for what your imagination said

:pac:

Completely disingenuous posting by downcow again. Serial activity at this stage.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I would not want to be part of a state that was dependant on a unionist majority. I am more interested in a state that we all believe in.
A few on here tell us about the terrible failure ni is. I’m not sure how you measure this but relatively speaking the residents seem pretty happy. The catholic population has flourished and hasn’t run off to live in this garden of Eden down south and prods and newcomers also seem fairly content. If that’s a failed state then I’m happy to live in a failed state.

But yes, I think those of us who love ni will consider any option should the hypothetical dreaded all-island fantasy project ever happen.

Why would they run off? They're already home. Are you suggesting ethnically cleansing people out of their homes and neighbourhoods?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Not a chance

So you are against the GFA then and the legitimate aspirations for a UI contained therein?

You probably should have read it before you voted for it I guess.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Tell me where in the uk it is illegal to fly the union flag. You are at your nonsense again.

Ooooh. You actually don't have a clue about why the flag protests began in the first place? Do you? That's embarrassing.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belfast_City_Hall_flag_protests

Educate your wee ceann.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

You are inferring a lot there big man. None of it remotely implied.

I’m just keeping it real, M’kay?

You say that voting for bigots is legitimate.

I'm saying that bigots have no place in any modern society, m'kay?

BonnieSituation

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Serious strammanning going on here


That poster didnt say remotely what you implied he did and then you proceed to critise him for what your imagination said

:pac:

It's impressive even for DC when he couldn't dig himself out of that hole.

I'd be embarrassed not to know why the flag protests existed of I was a Unionist in a Nationalist town in An Dún.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you are against the GFA then and the legitimate aspirations for a UI contained therein?

You probably should have read it before you voted for it I guess.

I don’t know where you are getting that. I support/supported the gfa. There was nothing in it that threatened me as there will never be a majority here wanting to unite the island.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

It's impressive even for DC when he couldn't dig himself out of that hole.

I'd be embarrassed not to know why the flag protests existed of I was a Unionist in a Nationalist town in An Dún.

Much as you would like to spin for the benifit of others. I don’t recall mentioning the flags protest. But no doubt you’ll produce the link.

I think I’m going to take Francie off ignore as even he doesn’t twist misrepresent and spin quite as much as you. Lol

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I don’t know where you are getting that. I support/supported the gfa. There was nothing in it that threatened me as there will never be a majority here wanting to unite the island.

Your words indicate otherwise.

If you don't feel threatened then what's your problem with an ILA?

If you don't think majority want a UI why are you so angry at the idea of a border poll?

Why do you constantly go on with a bunker mentality that seems to think that the ROI would treat Unionists with the disgusting contempt that Unionism treated Nationalists in NI since the sectarian statelet was imposed upon the Irish people?

Your days of having a veto are over. As it should be.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Much as you would like to spin for the benifit of others. I don’t recall mentioning the flags protest. But no doubt you’ll produce the link.

I think I’m going to take Francie off ignore as even he doesn’t twist misrepresent and spin quite as much as you. Lol

You literally have no idea what I referenced when I posted about the "removal of the Union flag of public buildings in line with the rest of the UK".

It's your lack of knowledge on that subject meant that I felt it was important that you educated yourself as to what I referred to and the fact that it resulted in protests. Protests from anti-democratic loyalists who seemingly wanted Belfast/Belfast City Hall and by extension Northern Ireland to be treated differently to Britain. Which isn't very "unionist" I would have thought.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Your words indicate otherwise.

If you don't feel threatened then what's your problem with an ILA?

If you don't think majority want a UI why are you so angry at the idea of a border poll?

Why do you constantly go on with a bunker mentality that seems to think that the ROI would treat Unionists with the disgusting contempt that Unionism treated Nationalists in NI since the sectarian statelet was imposed upon the Irish people?

Your days of having a veto are over. As it should be.

You are just not getting it. I actually don’t think the roi government would purposely treat my community with contempt. That’s not the issue.
No matter whether they deliver us cream buns every day, it’s not happening.
It would be like saying to a Scot that if the English be nice to you would you not just let them absorb your country.
Another why negotiations would serve no purpose.
I don’t dislike southerners. I am just not about to surrender my country to them.

Madeleine Birchfield

downcow wrote: »

You are just not getting it. I actually don’t think the roi government would purposely treat my community with contempt. That’s not the issue.
No matter whether they deliver us cream buns every day, it’s not happening.
It would be like saying to a Scot that if the English be nice to you would you not just let them absorb your country.
Another why negotiations would serve no purpose.
I don’t dislike southerners. I am just not about to surrender my country to them.

What are you going to do when the UK/Tories throws you under the bus again regarding the border poll/United Ireland like they did with Brexit? Or if the UK falls apart with Scotland, Wales, and NI becoming independent?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

You are just not getting it. I actually don’t think the roi government would purposely treat my community with contempt. That’s not the issue.
No matter whether they deliver us cream buns every day, it’s not happening.
It would be like saying to a Scot that if the English be nice to you would you not just let them absorb your country.
Another why negotiations would serve no purpose.
I don’t dislike southerners. I am just not about to surrender my country to them.

Surrender your country?

What?

Do the Nationalists in NI have no say who are nearly 100 years putting up with unionist bigotry?

Anyway, 50%+1 is all that matters! You voted for this in 1998.

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

You are just not getting it. I actually don’t think the roi government would purposely treat my community with contempt. That’s not the issue.
No matter whether they deliver us cream buns every day, it’s not happening.
It would be like saying to a Scot that if the English be nice to you would you not just let them absorb your country.
Another why negotiations would serve no purpose.
I don’t dislike southerners. I am just not about to surrender my country to them.

Why do you keep picking analogies which have no relationship to the de facto one between the ROI and the north? We get it you won’t vote for a United Ireland but the point is that there is a majority away from hardline unionism and loyalists who could vote for it. Brexit has the potential to destroy the Uk and if SNP get a good vote in the next elections another independence referendum can’t be far away.

BonnieSituation

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

What are you going to do when the UK/Tories throws you under the bus again regarding the border poll/United Ireland like they did with Brexit? Or if the UK falls apart with Scotland, Wales, and NI becoming independent?

NI won't be independent. No one in NI wants this. Why would Nationalists silo themselves with people that don't agree with their aspirations?

The GFA has only two possible scenarios; NI as part of the UK or a United Ireland. That's it. If people want to agitate for changes to the GFA, then that is their prerogative. In the meantime the rest of us are gonna continue down this road.

downcow

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

What are you going to do when the UK/Tories throws you under the bus again regarding the border poll/United Ireland like they did with Brexit? Or if the UK falls apart with Scotland, Wales, and NI becoming independent?

We are a resilient people. Probably no more or less resilient than the Irish. So we will do our best in whatever of you hypothetical scenarios occur.
But I think I said earlier, there are about 200 other countries I would unite with before roi , and we have never been united with most of them either.

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

Why do you keep picking analogies which have no relationship to the de facto one between the ROI and the north? We get it you won’t vote for a United Ireland but the point is that there is a majority away from hardline unionism and loyalists who could vote for it. Brexit has the potential to destroy the Uk and if SNP get a good vote in the next elections another independence referendum can’t be far away.

I can’t disagree with much of that but it is all a bit hypothetical and I could add lots more hypothetical scenarios eg Uk flourishes as part of Europe but outside the EU project and it’s four nations enjoy the benifits

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

NI won't be independent. No one in NI wants this. Why would Nationalists silo themselves with people that don't agree with their aspirations?

The GFA has only two possible scenarios; NI as part of the UK or a United Ireland. That's it. If people want to agitate for changes to the GFA, then that is their prerogative. In the meantime the rest of us are gonna continue down this road.

I agree completely and I don’t hear anyone agitating for change to GFA except some republicans.
I don’t here a single unionist advocating change to the voting arrangements, even jim Alistair, simply confident there will never be a majority.
The time for agitating would be after the hypothetical implementation

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

We are a resilient people. Probably no more or less resilient than the Irish. So we will do our best in whatever of you hypothetical scenarios occur.
But I think I said earlier, there are about 200 other countries I would unite with before roi , and we have never been united with most of them either.

You would rather unite with France or Sweden or Vietnam than the rest of your people on your Island? Does that hold true in the event of a democratic vote whereby the residents of NI vote to reject the UK?

And you say you're not bitter and beligerent and have Nationalist friends? Gas.

You're too far gone to consider convincing or recruiting for a yes vote. Thankfully your cohort are diminishing.

Edgware

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No you don't laugh...don't be trying to cod anyone. You cannot bear a woman delivering this...is that what all the sexist cliches, (that say more about you btw) are about?

What are you spewing about? What has been delivered?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I agree completely and I don’t hear anyone agitating for change to GFA except some republicans.
I don’t here a single unionist advocating change to the voting arrangements, even jim Alistair, simply confident there will never be a majority.
The time for agitating would be after the hypothetical implementation

What Republicans are agitating for a change to the GFA?

You obviously have proof of that assertion?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You would rather unite with France or Sweden or Vietnam than the rest of your people on your Island? Does that hold true in the event of a democratic vote whereby the residents of NI vote to reject the UK?

And you say you're not bitter and beligerent and have Nationalist friends? Gas.

You're too far gone to consider convincing or recruiting for a yes vote. Thankfully your cohort are diminishing.

Let me genuinely help you bonnie.
Would you ever vote to unite roi with England? And if you had to unite with someone would you chose France or England?
Does that help you understand?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What Republicans are agitating for a change to the GFA?

You obviously have proof of that assertion?

I apologise if I am wrong but I thought the Continuity IRA, the 32 whatever, soairse, etc were all desperate for change to it. I think bobby sands family want the gfa scrapped - am I correct?

Edit. Here is a wee link as you requested one https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/sands-death-to-haunt-sinn-fein-leadership-25-years-on-26382362.html

Madeleine Birchfield

downcow wrote: »

We are a resilient people. Probably no more or less resilient than the Irish. So we will do our best in whatever of you hypothetical scenarios occur.
But I think I said earlier, there are about 200 other countries I would unite with before roi , and we have never been united with most of them either.

So you would rather unite with Syria or Iraq or the Democratic Republic of the Congo over the Republic of Ireland? Let your country become majority Muslim or majority Congolese just so themmuns don't get control of Ulster?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Let me genuinely help you bonnie.
Would you ever vote to unite roi with England? And if you had to unite with someone would you chose France or England?
Does that help you understand?

Well, no.

See there is an ACTUAL legal treaty in place that you voted for, that says that in the event of a majority of the people so voting, that Ireland will be United.

Why do we need your hypothetical nonsense?

I asked you straight out whether you would rather unite with France, Sweden or Vietnam than with the rest of your people on your Island, and you threw me another bizarre hypothetical.

No one in Ireland is agitating for a vote to join England or France or anywhere else. There's no need to talk nonsense when we have an actual treaty in place that we can discuss. Your blind hatred for your fellow Irishmen shows why NI continues to be a cold house for Nationalists and why they will vote to consign the hideous construct to history.

FrancieBrady

Edgware wrote: »

What are you spewing about? What has been delivered?

The person being a small minded sexist is accusing someone else of 'spewing'? Some self awareness might come in handy there Edg.

You cannot bear the thought of a woman delivering change (or rather a SF woman.) hence all the sexist ranting about 'fish-wifes' etc.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I apologise if I am wrong but I thought the Continuity IRA, the 32 whatever, soairse, etc were all desperate for change to it. I think bobby sands family want the gfa scrapped - am I correct?

Edit. Here is a wee link as you requested one https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/sands-death-to-haunt-sinn-fein-leadership-25-years-on-26382362.html

Meh. So fringe groups with no political or public support is your reference point? As opposed to 99% of the rest to the island who support the GFA. Why are your points and positions always so laboured and weak? Is this why you would rather be Swedish?

Madeleine Birchfield

BonnieSituation wrote: »

NI won't be independent. No one in NI wants this. Why would Nationalists silo themselves with people that don't agree with their aspirations?

The GFA has only two possible scenarios; NI as part of the UK or a United Ireland. That's it. If people want to agitate for changes to the GFA, then that is their prerogative. In the meantime the rest of us are gonna continue down this road.

What does the GFA say in the event the United Kingdom balkanises? Does NI go to Ireland by default then?

downcow

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

So you would rather unite with Syria or Iraq or the Democratic Republic of the Congo over the Republic of Ireland? Let your country become majority Muslim or majority Congolese just so themmuns don't get control of Ulster?

Now you are ripping the arse out of it. No I rather be with you guys. Although that does sound like a list of countries the ira were comfortable cosying up to.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I apologise if I am wrong but I thought the Continuity IRA, the 32 whatever, soairse, etc were all desperate for change to it. I think bobby sands family want the gfa scrapped - am I correct?

Edit. Here is a wee link as you requested one https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/sands-death-to-haunt-sinn-fein-leadership-25-years-on-26382362.html

And how are they getting on?

BonnieSituation

Madeleine Birchfield wrote: »

What does the GFA say in the event the United Kingdom balkanises? Does NI go to Ireland by default then?

It won't Balkanise.

If it where to though, the SOS will bring forward a referendum pretty quickly no doubt. The legal method exists so there's no need to not use it. Last thing you want to do is give beligerent unionists excuses to attack the legitimacy of the aspirations of Irishmen and women more than they already do.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Now you are ripping the arse out of it. No I rather be with you guys. Although that does sound like a list of countries the ira were comfortable cosying up to.

You said there were 200 countries you would rather be with than be in a UI!

Sorry if you confused us by thinking what you wrote to mean what the words indicate.