How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm not suggesting you should play British or English anthems, I was merely pointing out that both sports as we know them are British and Aviva is British in reply to your 'what has Britain done for Irish sport' comment earlier.

No, they are not. They played soccer in China and Ireland played Caid and the Welsh had something similar.



The Scots, Welsh and Irish set up the rugby union (now World Rugby) with the English refusing initially to get involved because it had not thought of it.


The Irish Government invested 200m of taxpayer's funds in the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. Surely, its not much to ask that the 200m contributed be acknowledged by playing the Irish Anthem and flying the Irish flag when playing in it?

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

If you heard the spewing of hate of Ian Paisley Snr. in his early years, you would understand where it all comes from.



This documentary made by Radharc in 1964 prior to it all kicking off will give you a little insight into the troubles.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjhqP90uaro

Don't worry I've seen videos of Ian Paisley. I don't think he had a monopoly on being a sectarian, bigoted prick. There were enough of them on both sides.

I actually studied Irish history (admittedly 25 years ago) but that documentary has completely changed my mind. I now believe the IRA campaign was completely justified. Up the RA!!!
In case there is any doubt, that was sarcasm

munsterlegend

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Don't worry I've seen videos of Ian Paisley. I don't think he had a monopoly on being a sectarian, bigoted prick. There were enough of them on both sides.

I actually studied Irish history (admittedly 25 years ago) but that documentary has completely changed my mind. I now believe the IRA campaign was completely justified. Up the RA!!!
In case there is any doubt, that was sarcasm

What period of Irish history did you cover? There is a documentary on Wednesday night on RTE1 giving British perspective on Ireland’s war of independence. Should be interesting to watch.

Yeah_Right

munsterlegend wrote: »

What period of Irish history did you cover? There is a documentary on Wednesday night on RTE1 giving British perspective on Ireland’s war of independence. Should be interesting to watch.

The course was the History of Modern Conflicts. One semester was Ireland, the other was Palestine. The main focus of the Irish semester was 1916 to 1995 (the year I was studying it). We did spend the first couple weeks studying the background of the conflict going back to cover Cromwell, the Boyne, Plantation, the Famine etc.

Shefwedfan

What are we going on about here lads and ladies? walk around any town and village and if you see a sports jersey on a person 99% of the time it is an English soccer team. Walk into a pub and ask to put on the rugby when Premiership is on and you will get a look and told to go over to the 12" thing in the cornor.

Now we are suddenly talking about how we are Ireland such patriotic sports fans?

Most pubs will only play the GAA becaue they have the soccer blaring out on another TV in the cornor. Pro 14 game in the rugby? your having a laugh. I have gone all around the country, walked into pubs and hotels and asked if they will stick on the rugby. "Oh we dont have those channels but we do have Charlton v Sh**ty UTd on tonight"

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What are we going on about here lads and ladies? walk around any town and village and if you see a sports jersey on a person 99% of the time it is an English soccer team. Walk into a pub and ask to put on the rugby when Premiership is on and you will get a look and told to go over to the 12" thing in the cornor.

Now we are suddenly talking about how we are Ireland such patriotic sports fans?

Most pubs will only play the GAA becaue they have the soccer blaring out on another TV in the cornor. Pro 14 game in the rugby? your having a laugh. I have gone all around the country, walked into pubs and hotels and asked if they will stick on the rugby. "Oh we dont have those channels but we do have Charlton v Sh**ty UTd on tonight"

Bull. I live in Monaghan...rugby internationals are promoted just as much as the soccer in pubs.
You are promoting an 80's or even 70's stereotype.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bull. I live in Monaghan...rugby internationals are promoted just as much as the soccer in pubs.
You are promoting an 80's or even 70's stereotype.

Did I mention internationals?



Tell me what pubs in Monghan have invested in buying the Pro14 channel? :P


You will even struggle to get them to have BT sport for the HC cups games.

FrancieBrady

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Did I mention internationals?



Tell me what pubs in Monghan have invested in buying the Pro14 channel? :P


You will even struggle to get them to have BT sport for the HC cups games.

More rubbish. I watch all the Irish HC games in my local and would waych pro14 there too if I was let.
I could also watch golf, motor sport and boxing.

Biggest attendance gets preference if there's a clash.

You need to stop stereotyping to ally yourself with downcow

RobMc59

jm08 wrote: »

No, they are not. They played soccer in China and Ireland played Caid and the Welsh had something similar.



The Scots, Welsh and Irish set up the rugby union (now World Rugby) with the English refusing initially to get involved because it had not thought of it.


The Irish Government invested 200m of taxpayer's funds in the redevelopment of Lansdowne Road. Surely, its not much to ask that the 200m contributed be acknowledged by playing the Irish Anthem and flying the Irish flag when playing in it?

Rugby existed long before the rugby world cup jm and if you read my posts properly you'd notice I said football as we know it is British,I never claimed there hadnt been ball games before this.
Regarding the Irish anthem and flag,obviously they should be at Irish games,I think the rugby world cup was a brilliant idea btw.

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Don't worry I've seen videos of Ian Paisley. I don't think he had a monopoly on being a sectarian, bigoted prick. There were enough of them on both sides.

I actually studied Irish history (admittedly 25 years ago) but that documentary has completely changed my mind. I now believe the IRA campaign was completely justified. Up the RA!!!
In case there is any doubt, that was sarcasm

Did you actually look at that documentary that I linked? They didn't actually show it for 25 years after the event. It will give you a big insight into how catholics were treated in Derry/Northern Ireland at the time. The people interviewed are very articulate, peaceful people who just wanted to have the same rights as protestants. One of them makes the point that a Labour Party couldn't work in Northern Ireland because it wasn't a democracy.



IRA are not even mentioned because they weren't really active in 1964. It might explain the despair though that catholics would have felt that lead to it all blowing up in 1969.


I blame entirely the British Government for the IRA. They need to take responsibility for that.

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

Rugby existed long before the rugby world cup jm and if you read my posts properly you'd notice I said football as we know it is British,I never claimed there hadnt been ball games before this.
Regarding the Irish anthem and flag,obviously they should be at Irish games,I think the rugby world cup was a brilliant idea btw.

I think you misread my comment. Its International Rugby Football Board (IRFB) as in the organisation, now known as World Rugby, not the World Cup.

However, following a disputed try in an international between Scotland and England in 1884, letters were exchanged in which England claimed that they made the laws, and the try should stand.[11] Scotland refused to play England in the 1885 Home Nations Championship. Following the dispute, the home unions of Scotland, Ireland and Wales decided to form an international union whose membership would agree on the standard rules of rugby football. The three nations met in Dublin in 1886, though no formal regulations were agreed upon. On 5 December 1887, committee members of the Irish Rugby Football Union, Scottish Rugby Union (named the Scottish Football Union at the time) and Welsh Rugby Union met in Manchester and wrote up the first four principles of the International Rugby Football Board. England refused to take part in the founding of the IRFB, stating that they should have greater representation, as they had more clubs. The England Union also refused to accept the IRFB as the recognised lawmaker of the game.[12] This led to the IRFB taking the stance of member countries not playing England until they joined, and no games were played against England in 1888 and 1889.[13] In 1890 England joined the IRFB, gaining six seats while the other unions had two each.[13] The same year, the IRFB wrote the first international laws of rugby union.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I guess for the same warped reason that the IRFU ream use the ROI flag, play the ROI anthem and parade out the ROI president.

Crazy isn't it!

They use their own flag.

Supplemental to that they use the Tricolour coupled with the Ulster Flag.

Amhrán na bhFiann is played out of respect for the host State.

The president is the Head of State where the rugby team has its stadium. Why wouldn't he attend? Is his attendance offensive? Why don't you campaign for your "Head of State" to attend?

At this stage it would be easier for you to tell us what doesn't offend you?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

well common sense would tell anyone that if you break all the agreements made when the teams united by playing all the games in Dublin, then inevitably the big stadium will be in Dublin.
Are you suggesting that had all the games being played in Belfast over the years, that the UK taxpayer could not afforded to help with a stadium.

There was a clear agreement when the two teams united and none of it has been adhered to - which you will be aware included flying the union flag and the Irish tricolour at alternative games

Two teams United?

The Irish rugby team is one team because it never split. You're talking nonsense again.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So Chelsea aren't an infamously racist club because you supported since you were 6?

FWIW my dad has been supporting them since the 60s as is his way to being a contrarian shít in a house full of Man U and Everton fans and I relish highlighting their bigotry to annoy him.

No one is calling you a racist for supporting Chelsea, but it's disingenuous to get offended at them being called a racist club. They are famous for it.

I'm a Shelbourne fan as it happens for any balance.

Personally I don't have any problem with people from overseas liking English football teams,its only the same as a British or Irish person liking the NFL or even me watching gaa!
So,apart from Shelbourne do you have any preference for Man U or Everton?

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

both sports as we know them are British

Versions of soccer and rugby have been around for centuries, Britain no more invented them than Ireland invented hitting a ball with a stick. Britain was the first to create a soccer association with standardised rules because it was the first place where home-and-away matches were played.

and Aviva is British

It's a private company, it has no loyalty to Britain. There's probably an EU office for it now anyway.

_____________________________________________________________

Downcow, I put this question to you, are you against a new flag, new anthem and new name for northern Ireland that represents the diversity of the people that live there?

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

Did you actually look at that documentary that I linked? They didn't actually show it for 25 years after the event. It will give you a big insight into how catholics were treated in Derry/Northern Ireland at the time. The people interviewed are very articulate, peaceful people who just wanted to have the same rights as protestants. One of them makes the point that a Labour Party couldn't work in Northern Ireland because it wasn't a democracy.



IRA are not even mentioned because they weren't really active in 1964. It might explain the despair though that catholics would have felt that lead to it all blowing up in 1969.


I blame entirely the British Government for the IRA. They need to take responsibility for that.

Yes I watched it. The whole 35 minutes. Well listened to it would be more accurate as I was working. I didn't learn anything new. The speakers were articulate. None of it changed my opinion of the Orange Order or belligerent Republicans or dissidents on either side. They are all scum. And the IRA are worst of the lot. I'd still vote to keep the lot of them out of my adopted country.

jm08

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Yes I watched it. The whole 35 minutes. Well listened to it would be more accurate as I was working. I didn't learn anything new. The speakers were articulate. None of it changed my opinion of the Orange Order or belligerent Republicans or dissidents on either side. They are all scum. And the IRA are worst of the lot. I'd still vote to keep the lot of them out of my adopted country.

Did you have any sympathy for the catholics who put up with that sectarian **** for the previous 50+ years?

jm08

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It's a private company, it has no loyalty to Britain. There's probably an EU office for it now anyway.

In November 2008, the Central Bank of Ireland fined the company [Aviva] for various breaches of the Consumer Protection Code. In April 2011, it dismantled its Dublin-based European holding company and carried on the same operations from London. The Central Bank of Ireland fined Aviva in July 2011 for failing to have proper controls and procedures surrounding the safeguarding of client assets.


They also pissed off everyone when they moved 500 jobs from Ireland to India (but I think they brought them back again as there were communication difficulties understanding each other's accents).

eire4

downcow wrote: »

That is a very sad comment. I started supporting Chelsea age 6 and I find your implication pathetic.
I would not label friends who are connected to my local gaa club racist just because it is has displayed extreme racism.
Racism is alive and well in football, gaa, rugby etc. You can burry hour head but that is why gaa is not becoming more inclusive. Most sports accept they have a problem and are working on it.
Gaa (and people with your views) think gaa is neither sectarian or racist. The gaa has not even reached square one on issues of diversity

Your well entitled to support whomever you wish that is your call. I was simply stating that it is well know that Chelsea has a very significant far right racist core support base that is just the way it is and a part of who Chelsea are. Love how you go off on your usual whatabout routine though.

eire4

downcow wrote: »

Maybe you would explain then why you keep referring to linfield as racist

Linfield just like Chelsea are well know for having a racist core support base. Hamburg would be another example of a club well know for having a racist core support base.

eire4

munsterlegend wrote: »

You shout for a team of mercenaries in north London and wish defeat on your local people who represent Ireland. Kind of sums you up. Damian Duff and Andy Townsend playing for them must have had you out with the voodoo doll.

When I was a teenager I remember being at a game between Chelsea and Manchester United as a guest of Chelsea so I was in the players and family etc section and during the game you could clearly hear the Chelsea fans In full flow signing about being up to their knees in fenian blood and Andy Townsend was the Chelsea captain that day!

RobMc59

eire4 wrote: »

When I was a teenager I remember being at a game between Chelsea and Manchester United as a guest of Chelsea so I was in the players and family etc section and during the game you could clearly hear the Chelsea fans In full flow signing about being up to their knees in fenian blood and Andy Townsend was the Chelsea captain that day!

It`s common knowledge Chelsea fans have close ties with Glasgow Rangers.

munsterlegend

eire4 wrote: »

Your well entitled to support whomever you wish that is your call. I was simply stating that it is well know that Chelsea has a very significant far right racist core support base that is just the way it is and a part of who Chelsea are. Love how you go off on your usual whatabout routine though.

How you can be a Chelsea supporter and not know their links with Combat 18 and of course the infamous chelsea headhunters? It’s no wonder Chelsea had a lot of Linfield supporters. Birds of a feather..

BonnieSituation

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What are we going on about here lads and ladies? walk around any town and village and if you see a sports jersey on a person 99% of the time it is an English soccer team. Walk into a pub and ask to put on the rugby when Premiership is on and you will get a look and told to go over to the 12" thing in the cornor.

Now we are suddenly talking about how we are Ireland such patriotic sports fans?

Most pubs will only play the GAA becaue they have the soccer blaring out on another TV in the cornor. Pro 14 game in the rugby? your having a laugh. I have gone all around the country, walked into pubs and hotels and asked if they will stick on the rugby. "Oh we dont have those channels but we do have Charlton v Sh**ty UTd on tonight"

Nonsense.

Even both of my locals in less than salubrious parts of south Dublin prioritise Irish teams over anything else be it rugby, gaelic football, hurling or soccer.

I can't imagine they are outliers throughout the county. In fact, one has taken to tagging one of their TVs with a "rugby" sign on it because of us going in to watch it there over the last while and asking to switch over the PRO-14 and HEC.

Of course there are bars that will show some nonsense from the EPL or Scotland when it's on, over the PRO-14 or HEC or GAA, but they're rare enough in my experience and I tend to not spend my money in such places so it's not something that bothers me to much what they do in my absence.

And as for your 99% of jerseys comment; It's been a long time since I saw the EPL teams out ranking Irish team in that regard. Based anecdotally from just general observance I'd wager Dublin and Leinster jerseys are the most popular ones about the place. But again, not something I get het up over.

And just like that Orbital- Belfast comes on my Spotify... :O

Yeah_Right

jm08 wrote: »

Did you have any sympathy for the catholics who put up with that sectarian **** for the previous 50+ years?

Yeah I did. It must have sucked. If I'd been alive back then, i would have supported their struggle for civil rights and fair elections. Same as i do black people in the US now. I just have an issue with terrorism, which is what the IRA engaged in.

Shefwedfan

FrancieBrady wrote: »

More rubbish. I watch all the Irish HC games in my local and would waych pro14 there too if I was let.
I could also watch golf, motor sport and boxing.

Biggest attendance gets preference if there's a clash.

You need to stop stereotyping to ally yourself with downcow

Why would I ally with downcow?

Your constant lying is tiresome just to make a point

Even in the most recent survey of the top sports in Ireland soccer came out ahead of rugby. I

Want an example, look at the soccer forum on here, so maybe start telling the truth....

BonnieSituation

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Versions of soccer and rugby have been around for centuries, Britain no more invented them than Ireland invented hitting a ball with a stick. Britain was the first to create a soccer association with standardised rules because it was the first place where home-and-away matches were played.



It's a private company, it has no loyalty to Britain. There's probably an EU office for it now anyway.

_____________________________________________________________

Downcow, I put this question to you, are you against a new flag, new anthem and new name for northern Ireland that represents the diversity of the people that live there?

jm08 wrote: »

In November 2008, the Central Bank of Ireland fined the company [Aviva] for various breaches of the Consumer Protection Code. In April 2011, it dismantled its Dublin-based European holding company and carried on the same operations from London. The Central Bank of Ireland fined Aviva in July 2011 for failing to have proper controls and procedures surrounding the safeguarding of client assets.


They also pissed off everyone when they moved 500 jobs from Ireland to India (but I think they brought them back again as there were communication difficulties understanding each other's accents).

I've worked for that company and there's some truth to the jobs thing.

The key thing is that the Irish entity is operated as if its completely separate to the UK entity. This was further accentuated by the new entity set up last year taking over a lot of EU business from London in advance of Brexit.

The UK company can be leaned on for some support given their larger technical teams ut that's the height of the crossover really.

The Indian jobs now are mostly technical jobs now for the Irish business and they are in a support capacity whereby the time zones are taken advantage of so they can do stuff when we're in a down time period. Irish based tech support couldn't beat that.

Anyway, I digress...

The mad assertion that sponsoring the Stadium is some sort of British benevolence is just insane tbh. The company have a marketing budget and the sponsoring of the stadium gave most bang for the buck. Simple as.

It will stop sponsoring the stadium when it doesn't achieve its goals. They recently reviewed their long term sponsorship of Norwich City for these exact reasons. Loyalty doesn't exist in that world unless it pays.

eire4

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What?

The 'IRFU' downcow...think about the name for a wee second.

Rory Best is proud to play for Ireland. I know it kills you and you are bitter about it but northern players and supporters have been peacefully accommodated and the vast majority of rugby players and supporters have no issue with it.

Of course we know belligerents would love to throw a bigotted spanner into those works, but this is not soccer, you have no power to do that.

I would also mention when the Irish Rugby team plays outside of Ireland the team plays under a version of the Irish 4 provinces flag with the IRFU logo in the middle. This is the only flag used. For matches played in Dublin the Irish tricolour and the yellow flag of Ulster are also flown alongside the IRFU version of the 4 provinces flag.

BonnieSituation

eire4 wrote: »

I would also mention when the Irish Rugby team plays outside of Ireland the team plays under a version of the Irish 4 provinces flag with the IRFU logo in the middle. This is the only flag used. For matches played in Dublin the Irish tricolour and the yellow flag of Ulster are also flown alongside the IRFU version of the 4 provinces flag.

The Ulster Flag.

---

They have started to use the Tricolour and Ulster Flag in tandem now as was the case in stadia during the RWC in Japan.

eire4

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Umbro have now distanced themselves from it and apologised for any offence caused.

https://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2020/0615/1147554-umbro-say-they-will-not-promote-linfields-new-away-kit/

And sure, it was completely coincidental. I mean, no one at Linfield saw the connection before approval and manufacture. Gas.

Umbro also made it quite clear in their distancing themselves from this pandering to their racist core support base by Linfield that it was the club that was the inspiration behind the kit as well and not Umbro.