How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Sh*t happens everywhere is the point I'm trying to point out.

That has been said a few times now. The post showed that NI has been called the 'race hate capital of Europe' though, and you just handwaved that away.

Here is a paper on the extent of the problem.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-social-policy/article/tackling-racism-in-northern-ireland-the-race-hate-capital-of-europe/929CC8B4DD71775B716AD1B9E8D06CCD

And an article detailing the racism against the Roma community mentioned in the abstract.

Roma gypsy families in Northern Ireland have been forced to leave their homes after racist attacks that are being blamed on rightwing elements of the pro-British loyalist community.

About 100 people, who local politicians say are members of the ethnic Roma community, were on Wednesday preparing to spend their first night in a Belfast leisure centre. They arrived under police escort after attacks on homes in south Belfast on Monday night, when bricks were thrown by a crowd shouting slogans of the hard-right Combat 18 group.

https://www.ft.com/content/915043e6-5b59-11de-be3f-00144feabdc0

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That has been said a few times now. The post showed that NI has been called the 'race hate capital of Europe' though, and you just handwaved that away.

Here is a paper on the extent of the problem.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-social-policy/article/tackling-racism-in-northern-ireland-the-race-hate-capital-of-europe/929CC8B4DD71775B716AD1B9E8D06CCD

And an article detailing the racism against the Roma community mentioned in the abstract.









https://www.ft.com/content/915043e6-5b59-11de-be3f-00144feabdc0

I saw locals fighting with travellers myself in Bundoran but wouldn't consider the people of Bundoran as racist,are you suggesting this kind of thing only happens in NI?

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I saw locals fighting with travellers myself in Bundoran but wouldn't consider the people of Bundoran as racist,are you suggesting this kind of thing only happens in NI?

No.

But in answer to the poster who tried pointing fingers I showed that the place he lives in has been called the 'race hate capital of Europe'.

Should they be pointing fingers at anyone?

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

You are quite clearly deluded. Where did I say that there wasn’t a racism problem? Of course you mention nothing of the empire and it’s pitiful racist history.

Compared to the 80’s Ireland is a very multicultural nation. All our multinational investment is testament to same. There are a lot of countries in between Ireland and predominantly black countries so obviously our percentage is not as high.

I would hazard a guess that Ireland is the least multicultural nation in Europe and one of the least the world.
Would you disagree?

Baffled how you could refer to it as a very multicultural nation

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

All this ranting and ignoring that NI has an 80% lower black population per capita....

Read my posts. I am ignoring nothing. I have said clearly that Northern Ireland has significant racism, we are an almost totally white society, and I am privileged to be white living in this society.

Unfortunately the denial is the other way. All these statements are also true for ROI, but posters on here are telling us how multicultural it is, how little racism there is, how many black people there are, etc

...... and you want to argue about which one of us is nearest to having 1% of the population black - which of course would prove we were sorted

Simply nuts

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No.

But in answer to the poster who tried pointing fingers I showed that the place he lives in has been called the 'race hate capital of Europe'.

Should they be pointing fingers at anyone?

Francie, I absolutely was not pointing the finger at anyone on race issues. I am very conscious that this whole Island is extremely backward on this issue. A significant reason for this is because of how white society we are - even though a few posters on here think were Rio de Janeiro.

A good friend of mine is a community worker in Brookfield in west Dublin.
His story just do not fit with the nonsense I am reading on here.
He was telling me recently about how the different ethnic groups are taking over various cul-de-sacs for their own safety, and the most interesting of all was that, a group of travelling community who have taken over a series of houses have fitted gates for their protection. The travelling community living in a gated community Dublin. Sounds like somewhere you would not want to wander about at night

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie, I absolutely was not pointing the finger at anyone on race issues. I am very conscious that this whole Island is extremely backward on this issue. A significant reason for this is because of how white society we are - even though a few posters on here think were Rio de Janeiro.

A good friend of mine is a community worker in Brookfield in west Dublin.
His story just do not fit with the nonsense I am reading on here.
He was telling me recently about how the different ethnic groups are taking over various cul-de-sacs for their own safety, and the most interesting of all was that, a group of travelling community who have taken over a series of houses have fitted gates for their protection. The travelling community living in a gated community Dublin. Sounds like somewhere you would not want to wander about at night

Oh gawd, not another 'friend' that was telling you stuff that 'coincidentally' backs up your slanting.

A while ago you were proclaiming how little you knew about the South, now you are talking about a specific estate in west Dublin.

You are some chancer.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh gawd, not another 'friend' that was telling you stuff that 'coincidentally' backs up your slanting.

A while ago you were proclaiming how little you knew about the South, now you are talking about a specific estate in west Dublin.

You are some chancer.

:rolleyes:

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Read my posts. I am ignoring nothing. I have said clearly that Northern Ireland has significant racism, we are an almost totally white society, and I am privileged to be white living in this society.

Unfortunately the denial is the other way. All these statements are also true for ROI, but posters on here are telling us how multicultural it is, how little racism there is, how many black people there are, etc

...... and you want to argue about which one of us is nearest to having 1% of the population black - which of course would prove we were sorted

Simply nuts

Which one of us is nearest to having 1%?! You seem to have forgot that I'm from the North. I'm not taking an, 'us versus them' approach to this comment.....because I'd be over on the, 'them' side with you.

My issue is with your use of 1% is that you present it as if it is an incredibly low number - it is actually higher than any part of the UK except England (at a huge....3%, one of the highest in Europe). Given England's colonial and economic history, of course more immigrants moved towards it. Ireland was until recently quite limited on immigration pull factors, so of course it would have a lower black population than England.

Just for the record, the total black population in Europe is around 1%, so Ireland is not some lagging-behind monocultural backwater like you're trying to imply.

I have lived both sides of the border though Downcow, and while both certainly have their issues with racism (where doesn't?!), I've found Dublin a much more tolerant place during the years I lived there than I did Belfast during my time there.

Both are quite similar with regards to more subtle expressions of racism, both have a lot of work to do, but I saw many more overt displays of racism in the North. While we can all find examples of racism from Blackrock to the Malone Road, or from Sandy Row to The Liberties, there is certainly a statistically significant increase in working class Loyalist areas for example. I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons, from the feeling of competition in the workforce with low paid immigrants, combined with a political tendency towards the conservative/right.

Of course this is purely anecdotal, and just my own experience and thoughts, and can be easily dismissed as such, but what I'm getting at Downcow is perhaps get your own house in order before pointing out the mess in someone else's.

RobMc59

According to this link,the prospect of a UI isn't very high on anyone's agenda in NI.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/17/brexit-unionist-nationalist-divide-northern-ireland-survey-identity-political-allegiances

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I would hazard a guess that Ireland is the least multicultural nation in Europe and one of the least the world.
Would you disagree?

Baffled how you could refer to it as a very multicultural nation

I would disagree.

I would say Iceland would easily be the most monocultural.

---

I think with 17% or so of the population of the State being born elsewhere would entitle us to call the State "multicultural".

If in your opinion, 17% isn't enough, would there be a ratio that you think would be more appropriate for the term "multicultural"?

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Francie, I absolutely was not pointing the finger at anyone on race issues. I am very conscious that this whole Island is extremely backward on this issue. A significant reason for this is because of how white society we are - even though a few posters on here think were Rio de Janeiro.

A good friend of mine is a community worker in Brookfield in west Dublin.
His story just do not fit with the nonsense I am reading on here.
He was telling me recently about how the different ethnic groups are taking over various cul-de-sacs for their own safety, and the most interesting of all was that, a group of travelling community who have taken over a series of houses have fitted gates for their protection. The travelling community living in a gated community Dublin. Sounds like somewhere you would not want to wander about at night

Where is Brookfield in West Dublin? Do you mean Jobstown/Tallaght?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

According to this link,the prospect of a UI isn't very high on anyone's agenda in NI.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/17/brexit-unionist-nationalist-divide-northern-ireland-survey-identity-political-allegiances

Is it not?

You're saying that 0% of the population of the North aren't interested in a UI?

A UI is on the agenda.

That survey details the opinion of respondents of the likelihood of a UI occurring at certain intervals in the future.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Is it not?

You're saying that 0% of the population of the North aren't interested in a UI?

A UI is on the agenda.

That survey details the opinion of respondents of the likelihood of a UI occurring at certain intervals in the future.

I'd say it implies the majority regardless of which community are reasonably happy with the devolved government.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'd say it implies the majority regardless of which community are reasonably happy with the devolved government.

I dunno. You said it wasn't on anyone's agenda when it plainly is.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

According to this link,the prospect of a UI isn't very high on anyone's agenda in NI.
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jun/17/brexit-unionist-nationalist-divide-northern-ireland-survey-identity-political-allegiances

Henry using selective polls again.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I dunno. You said it wasn't on anyone's agenda when it plainly is.

Coronavirus has possibility illustrated the high degree of autonomy the devolved governments have which has certainly registered with the public.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

Coronavirus has possibility illustrated the high degree of autonomy the devolved governments have which has certainly registered with the public.

By having it on their agenda?

Junkyard Tom

Imagine a loyalist lecturing Irish people on multiculturalism? They still can't abide the natives' culture and celebrate their anti-Irishness every summer despite living in Ireland for centuries.

Bizarre.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Oh gawd, not another 'friend' that was telling you stuff that 'coincidentally' backs up your slanting.

A while ago you were proclaiming how little you knew about the South, now you are talking about a specific estate in west Dublin.

You are some chancer.

So are you telling me it is not true?

I think I've told you before that I work for an all Island organisation and I have colleagues in a few different locations in your lovely country

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Which one of us is nearest to having 1%?! You seem to have forgot that I'm from the North. I'm not taking an, 'us versus them' approach to this comment.....because I'd be over on the, 'them' side with you.

My issue is with your use of 1% is that you present it as if it is an incredibly low number - it is actually higher than any part of the UK except England (at a huge....3%, one of the highest in Europe). Given England's colonial and economic history, of course more immigrants moved towards it. Ireland was until recently quite limited on immigration pull factors, so of course it would have a lower black population than England.

Just for the record, the total black population in Europe is around 1%, so Ireland is not some lagging-behind monocultural backwater like you're trying to imply.

I have lived both sides of the border though Downcow, and while both certainly have their issues with racism (where doesn't?!), I've found Dublin a much more tolerant place during the years I lived there than I did Belfast during my time there.

Both are quite similar with regards to more subtle expressions of racism, both have a lot of work to do, but I saw many more overt displays of racism in the North. While we can all find examples of racism from Blackrock to the Malone Road, or from Sandy Row to The Liberties, there is certainly a statistically significant increase in working class Loyalist areas for example. I'm sure there are a myriad of reasons, from the feeling of competition in the workforce with low paid immigrants, combined with a political tendency towards the conservative/right.

Of course this is purely anecdotal, and just my own experience and thoughts, and can be easily dismissed as such, but what I'm getting at Downcow is perhaps get your own house in order before pointing out the mess in someone else's.

Guys, do not try to spin this again.
I have been very clear from the outset that there is a lot of work to do in Northern Ireland. I couldn't be clearer about how white my country is, how much work it needs to do, and how much prejudice I still have. It doesn't fit your narrative that I am very aware of my local and personal issues around racism.
This kicked off because a few posters from ROI referred to ROI as a very multicultural country, not very many issues around race, lots of black people, etc. so I will continue to work getting my house in order. Just encouraging you guys to drop the denial and realise that you live in a very white country, where you are very privileged the white, and you need to recognise the difficulties that your few black neighbours encountered day and daily.

So stop the spinning

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I would disagree.

I would say Iceland would easily be the most monocultural.

---

I think with 17% or so of the population of the State being born elsewhere would entitle us to call the State "multicultural".

If in your opinion, 17% isn't enough, would there be a ratio that you think would be more appropriate for the term "multicultural"?

Okay Bonnie, you beat Iceland on the multicultural stakes (and maybe the following island as well) - as we would say up north - put the flags out

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So are you telling me it is not true?

I think I've told you before that I work for an all Island organisation and I have colleagues in a few different locations in your lovely country

Do you spell every Irish name wrong when you are sending emails too? Do your colleagues mention it to you and do you continue to do it. Any McGuinness's working for the org or any need to mention the Taoiseach?

To be honest, nothing you say rings true downcow. There is always a handy friend or villager to match the slanted posts you make.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Where is Brookfield in West Dublin? Do you mean Jobstown/Tallaght?

Yeah I think Jobstown is basically the same place

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Imagine a loyalist lecturing Irish people on multiculturalism? They still can't abide the natives' culture and celebrate their anti-Irishness every summer despite living in Ireland for centuries.

Bizarre.

Junkyard, what makes you more of a native than me?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Do you spell every Irish name wrong when you are sending emails too? Do your colleagues mention it to you and do you continue to do it. Any McGuinness's working for the org or any need to mention the Taoiseach?

To be honest, nothing you say rings true downcow. There is always a handy friend or villager to match the slanted posts you make.

Always? I don't think I have mentioned very many friends, but I absolutely do have one who works in Brookfield/Jobstown.

This is from Francie who even claims to be married to a Unionist

Do you want me to describe Brookfield to you. I be in it meeting him at least a couple of times a year. Francie I think I have said before that my mom had a great saying - as you live your life, you dread your neighbour's. If I can translate for you, basically it means if you are a fairly trustworthy person you are likely to trust others, if you are a rogue you're likely to see others as rogues.
I don't expect posters on here to rush to the unionist's defence, but I hope they all realise that I stick to the truth. Of course we may present it differently depending on where we are coming from. But if I was to say I had a colleague in Brookfield and I didn't, well that would just be a blatant lie. I don't do blatant lies

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Always? I don't think I have mentioned very many friends, but I absolutely do have one who works in Brookfield/Jobstown.

This is from Francie who even claims to be married to a Unionist

I never claimed to be married to a Unionist...you are revealing your wishful thinking again.

My partner is a proud Protestant as are my children. My partner is in favour of a United Ireland as are her family. You need to adjust your views of southern protestants, they are not unionists anymore in the main, they are fully integrated into their communities and southern Irish life and politics.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I never claimed to be married to a Unionist...you are revealing your wishful thinking again.

My partner is a proud Protestant as are my children. My partner is in favour of a United Ireland as are her family. You need to adjust your views of southern protestants, they are not unionists anymore in the main, they are fully integrated into their communities and southern Irish life and politics.

And surprise surprise. I believe you Francie. I was winding you up a little about the unionist.

This is the huge difference what happened in the two countries. Protestants integrated into ROI society the same as Irish and Ulster Scots in the United States, Australia, etc.
Northern Ireland very different, in that the nationalist population did not integrate and set about wrecking the country.

Anyway, that aside, do you believe me that I have a colleague and good friend in Jobstown?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Junkyard, what makes you more of a native than me?

I didn't claim you weren't native to Ireland I suggested you can't abide the native language. You're welcome to be part of the Irish nation - maybe some time in the next three hundred years you'll feel proud to be part of the Irish nation.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Always? I don't think I have mentioned very many friends, but I absolutely do have one who works in Brookfield/Jobstown.

This is from Francie who even claims to be married to a Unionist

Do you want me to describe Brookfield to you. I be in it meeting him at least a couple of times a year. Francie I think I have said before that my mom had a great saying - as you live your life, you dread your neighbour's. If I can translate for you, basically it means if you are a fairly trustworthy person you are likely to trust others, if you are a rogue you're likely to see others as rogues.
I don't expect posters on here to rush to the unionist's defence, but I hope they all realise that I stick to the truth. Of course we may present it differently depending on where we are coming from. But if I was to say I had a colleague in Brookfield and I didn't, well that would just be a blatant lie. I don't do blatant lies

What province and county is Brookfield in?