How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The people of the island have. You had control as Unionists and made an utter mess of it.

No, you are missing the point. We never had control over our place in the United Kingdom. Now we do. Thanks to the GFA

Do you not think that many Unionists would have been crapping themselves during the flags protest, if the position was that the ROI and UK governments could have sat down and had a little chat, and decided that it is time for a united Ireland at.
TheGFA takes away that thread for all time

munsterlegend

downcow wrote: »

I do not believe there is any evidence that the UK Parliament ever has stood in the way of NI leaving the union the people want go.

I don't see that anything has actually changed in that respect.
The only difference is that we now cannot be pushed

While obviously the people in the north and south ultimately decide any vote the power of a border poll rests with the British govt. of course no border poll would be called in reality without the agreement of the dublin govt. as of yet we haven’t had since the GFA a Dublin govt who have pushed the issue but I think if we did London would probably call one.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

No, you are missing the point. We never had control over our place in the United Kingdom. Now we do. Thanks to the GFA

you had a unionist controlled government and a 'Prime Minister' until it was taken off you in 1972 (the most violent year of the conflict I think) The executive has less powers now.

Do you not think that many Unionists would have been crapping themselves during the flags protest, if the position was that the ROI and UK governments could have sat down and had a little chat, and decided that it is time for a united Ireland at.
TheGFA takes away that thread for all time

What?

Is there a belief in there that a border poll will never happen?

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

While obviously the people in the north and south ultimately decide any vote the power of a border poll rests with the British govt. of course no border poll would be called in reality without the agreement of the dublin govt. as of yet we haven’t had since the GFA a Dublin govt who have pushed the issue but I think if we did London would probably call one.

And that is absolutely fine. We in Northern Ireland are still completely in control of the outcome.

It still astounds me to this day that Sinn Fein/IRA accepted this

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

you had a unionist controlled government and a 'Prime Minister' until it was taken off you in 1972 (the most violent year of the conflict I think) The executive has less powers now.




What?

Is there a belief in there that a border poll will never happen?

A border poll is absolutely no threat. The only thing that is a threat to our place in the United Kingdom is the majority of the people in Northern Ireland decide to break with the union. They would have taken leave of their senses to do that

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

A border poll is absolutely no threat. The only thing that is a threat to our place in the United Kingdom is the majority of the people in Northern Ireland decide to break with the union. They would have taken leave of their senses to do that

Ah right. Carry on...love it.

Maybe that is why Jamie has stood down from the Carson-eering.

Shefwedfan

This is a very good representation of SF and the DUP

Two kids bickering with no end in sight...nothing achieved either

downcow

munsterlegend wrote: »

While obviously the people in the north and south ultimately decide any vote the power of a border poll rests with the British govt. of course no border poll would be called in reality without the agreement of the dublin govt. as of yet we haven’t had since the GFA a Dublin govt who have pushed the issue but I think if we did London would probably call one.

Another reason that I am baffled as to why the IRA signed up to this. As a Unionist, no one can threaten my position without getting the majority vote of the people in Northern Ireland, yet strangely, for the IRA to get their objective, they need to get a lot of ducks in a row, and are beholding to the British Secretary of State to set the thing rolling.
If i was a Republican, I would be disgusted with the negotiating by my side that led to this position

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Another reason that I am baffled as to why the IRA signed up to this. As a Unionist, no one can threaten my position without getting the majority vote of the people in Northern Ireland, yet strangely, for the IRA to get their objective, they need to get a lot of ducks in a row, and are beholding to the British Secretary of State to set the thing rolling.
If i was a Republican, I would be disgusted with the negotiating by my side that led to this position

A valiant attempt to convince the uninformed.

Anybody educated or alive during the events know the absolute ****storm there was in Unionism over the AIA and the GFA.

Why was there a '****storm'?...because Unionism knew what it meant. It knew, as James Molyneaux, one of their leaders said..'it is the worst thing that ever happened to us'.

eire4

jm08 wrote: »

Having 3 circles close together isn't a shamrock, or close to it.

Yes it is. A stylized Shamrock granted but a Shamrock nonetheless. It is quite clearly right there on the badge. I am not a fan of the current Ireland football crest myself. But it does have a Shamrock.

downcow

I see bobby storey died today. Condolences to those grieving his death and thoughts are with those grieving someone that he arranged the death of.

He will be a big loss to british military intelligence

gormdubhgorm

Any sign of it yet at all I assumed because it has gone over to part 2 and well over 10000 posts something must have happened?
Did it?
Or are people still dreaming? And they have the green post box paint ready in the shed just in case.
Does the paint have a sell by date by the way?
800 years too much? Better off sticking to the red at this stage?





Just to be sure. Because everyone knows that Irish people are not wrapped up in British and English culture. Sure we don't even speak the same language...oh wait.
Or watch the same British tv shows, like British bands...oh wait.

Well at least we have Guinness that's Irish?
A good Protestant drink it was. Now owned by a British company Diageo.
Here is what An Phoblacht says about Arthur's Day and Guinness in general.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23408

Tiocfaidh ár lá indeed.

Keep living the dream!

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Any sign of it yet at all I assumed because it has gone over to part 2 and well over 10000 posts something must have happened?
Did it?
Or are people still dreaming? And they have the green post box paint ready in the shed just in case.
Does the paint have a sell by date by the way?
800 years too much? Better off sticking to the red at this stage?





Just to be sure. Because everyone knows that Irish people are not wrapped up in British and English culture. Sure we don't even speak the same language...oh wait.
Or watch the same British tv shows, like British bands...oh wait.

Well at least we have Guinness that's Irish?
A good Protestant drink it was. Now owned by a British company Diageo.
Here is what An Phoblacht says about Arthur's Day and Guinness in general.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23408

Tiocfaidh ar la indeed.

Keep living the dream!

Sure the British are wrapped up in our culture just as much: Terry Wogan, Graham Norton, Seamus Heaney, Mrs Brown, Derry Girls, etc etc etc.

Is there a point you are making, or are you only managing to demean yourself gormdubh?

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Sure the British are wrapped up in our culture just as much: Terry Wogan, Graham Norton, Seamus Heaney, Mrs Brown, Derry Girls, etc etc etc.

Is there a point you are making, or are you only manage to demean yourself gormdubh?

You know exactly the point I am making but you cannot face it. Most Republicans especially working class Southerns identify more with British culture than Irish. Fact of life. Plus you have to ask yourself why did Wogan. O'Carroll, Norton and so on immigrate to the UK? Because it is a better country bigger population, better standard of living, more job opportunities and so on.

If all of this was not true they would have stayed in Ireland.
Not everyone has 'the poor Paddy' boarder area mentality you have. You can never be free by merely thinking you are Irish once a line is removed. Irish culture has long being lost by the working class in particular. It is the last pretense of being Irish hoping for unification. It is all those sort have left.

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You know exactly the point I am making but you cannot face it. Most Republicans especially working class Southerns identify more with British culture than Irish. Fact of life. Plus you have to ask yourself why did Wogan. O'Carroll, Norton and so on immigrate to the UK? Because it is a better country bigger population, better standard of living, more job opportunities and so on.

If all of this was not true they would have stayed in Ireland.
Not everyone has 'the poor Paddy' boarder area mentality you have. You can never be free by merely thinking you are Irish once a line is removed. Irish culture has long being lost by the working class in particular. It is the last pretense of being Irish hoping for unification. It is all those sort have left.

So you're saying British culture is superior to ours?

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

You know exactly the point I am making but you cannot face it. Most Republicans especially working class Southerns identify more with British culture than Irish. Fact of life. Plus you have to ask yourself why did Wogan. O'Carroll, Norton and so on immigrate to the UK? Because it is a better country bigger population, better standard of living, more job opportunities and so on.

If all of this was not true they would have stayed in Ireland.
Not everyone has 'the poor Paddy' boarder area mentality you have. You can never be free by merely thinking you are Irish once a line is removed. Irish culture has long being lost by the working class in particular. It is the last pretense of being Irish hoping for unification. It is all those sort have left.

It was nonsense the first time you said it too.

We are open societies, just as likely to watch and enjoy Dallas as The Riordan's and we always were.

Mrs Brown though...most popular comedy programme in Britain...quintessentially Irish (gawd help us)

Stop fretting gormdubh...no need to shut the airports, we can look at other culture and enjoy it while not turning our back on our own.
You seem very xenophobic.

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So you're saying British culture is superior to ours?

Well yes it is. Common law superseded Brehon Law. I don't see much Irish spoken on boards.ie no real Gaelic Revival of the Irish language in over 100 years. At one stage the British Empire had 25% of the world and population great achievement militarily.

People can go on about Joyce or the arts, but how many people honestly would read Ulysses?

The most popular Gaelic sport was only invented to spite the British - Gaelic football. But yet a large proportion of the population sneer at it and call it bog ball preferring soccer/rugby.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was nonsense the first time you said it too.

We are open societies, just as likely to watch and enjoy Dallas as The Riordan's and we always were.

Mrs Brown though...most popular comedy programme in Britain...quintessentially Irish (gawd help us)

Stop fretting gormdubh...no need to shut the airports, we can look at other culture and enjoy it while not turning our back on our own.
You seem very xenophobic.

Go on then Francie you tell me what makes you Irish and not British. Besides what you were told by your auld fella, or what is written on your passport.
It all just seems to be in your head and the Irish unification idea is part of that.
Some Utopian dream?

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well yes it is. Common law superseded Brehon Law. I don't see much Irish spoken on boards.ie no real Gaelic Revival of the Irish language in over 100 years. At one stage the British Empire had 25% of the world and population great achievement militarily.

People can go on about Joyce or the arts, but how many people honestly would read Ulysses?

The most popular Gaelic sport was only invented to spite the British - Gaelic football. But yet a large proportion of the population sneer at it and call it bog ball preferring soccer/rugby.

You've really jumped off the deep end with your current inferiority complex.

No idea what's going on or what your aim is here.

Perhaps, change your username to the more "culturally robust" BlueNavyBlue then, and be done with it?

Probably best to hand in your coddle passport as well while you're at it.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Go on then Francie you tell me what makes you Irish and not British. Besides what you were told by your auld fella, or what is written on your passport.
It all just seems to be in your head and the Irish unification idea is part of that.
Some Utopian dream?

What makes someone British gorm...watching Mrs Brown? Reading Seamus Heaney or james Joyce?

You don't have a basic understanding what culture is.

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

You've really jumped off the deep end with your current inferiority complex.

No idea what's going on or what your aim is here.

Perhaps, change your username to the more "culturally robust" BlueNavyBlue then, and be done with it?

I am just telling the truth most 'Dublin republicans' I have met are on the thick side and working class. Enjoy thier pint watching UK soccer games with maybe a tattoo of an English club.
It is because they have an inferiority complex thier only last expression of Irishness is to call for a UI and so on.
Ok there might be the odd Gaelscoil here and there rare exceptions most speak English as thier first language.

I think a far better solution rather than Irish Unification is for Ireland to join the Commonwealth.
Afterall the British were the only ones to have ever United Ireland when you really think about it. It used to be a patchwork of clans not a real nation.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What makes someone British gorm...watching Mrs Brown? Reading Seamus Heaney or james Joyce?

You don't have a basic understanding what culture is.

I do any Britain has loads of theirs, Ireland has feck all. Nothing but the odd pretense at symbolism that is about it.
The only country in Europe not to use thier own language widely. 70,000 people and that is after nearly 100 years of freedom. Something is wrong somewhere.
But sure erasing a line on a map might make you feel better. The status quo will remain the same.

Plus Heaney is British by the way.

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am just telling the truth most 'Dublin republicans' I have met are on the thick side and working class. Enjoy thier pint watching UK soccer games with maybe a tattoo of an English club.
It is because they have an inferiority complex thier only last expression of Irishness is to call for a UI and so on.
Ok there might be the odd Gaelscoil here and there rare exceptions most speak English as thier first language.

I think a far better solution rather than Irish Unification is for Ireland to join the Commonwealth.
Afterall the British were the only ones to have ever United Ireland when you really think about it. It used to be a patchwork of clans not a real nation.

Yes, because the "telling it like it is schtick" is always done in an honest way.

It looks to me that you're projecting and having some crisis of confidence.

Anyway, this would be majorly OT for this thread I would wager. So it's best for my own sanity and thread access to leave you at it and walk away.

Shefwedfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Any sign of it yet at all I assumed because it has gone over to part 2 and well over 10000 posts something must have happened?
Did it?
Or are people still dreaming? And they have the green post box paint ready in the shed just in case.
Does the paint have a sell by date by the way?
800 years too much? Better off sticking to the red at this stage?





Just to be sure. Because everyone knows that Irish people are not wrapped up in British and English culture. Sure we don't even speak the same language...oh wait.
Or watch the same British tv shows, like British bands...oh wait.

Well at least we have Guinness that's Irish?
A good Protestant drink it was. Now owned by a British company Diageo.
Here is what An Phoblacht says about Arthur's Day and Guinness in general.

https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/23408

Tiocfaidh ár lá indeed.

Keep living the dream!

Ahh now sure your dreaming, Francie told us all that Irish people don’t watch the premiership.....sure he would never tell a lie

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Yes, because the "telling it like it is schtick" is always done in an honest way.

It looks to me that you're projecting and having some crisis of confidence.

Anyway, this would be majorly OT for this thread I would wager. So it's best for my own sanity and thread access to leave you at it and walk away.

I am just telling the truth. It the working class Irish (especially in Dublin) the ROI with the crisis of confidence who shout the loudest about a United Ireland. Then go back into thier full immersion of British culture. I have seen and hear it so many times.
At least Francie Brady can claim British oppression in the past because he was in a border area etc. So he wants a UI. But that is only learnt behaviour because of his background.

But most of the ROI say they want a UI because they feel it is the right thing to say - and makes them feel more Irish. Most are distant from NI in the ROI (bar border counties). Might go up for a bit of shopping when the exchange rates change to get a cheap telly is the height of it.

It is just the reality of it.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I do any Britain has loads of theirs, Ireland has feck all. Nothing but the odd pretense at symbolism that is about it.
The only country in Europe not to use thier own language widely. 70,000 people and that is after nearly 100 years of freedom. Something is wrong somewhere.
But sure erasing a line on a map might make you feel better. The status quo will remain the same.

Plus Heaney is British by the way.

I'll let Heaney himself answer you there.

SeamusHeaney wrote:

“Be advised, my passport's green/ No glass of ours was ever raised/ To toast the Queen.”

Take it handy gormdubh, you didn't manage to wind anyone up the last time with your nonsense and you aren't going to do it this time either.

Shefwedfan

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I do any Britain has loads of theirs, Ireland has feck all. Nothing but the odd pretense at symbolism that is about it.
The only country in Europe not to use thier own language widely. 70,000 people and that is after nearly 100 years of freedom. Something is wrong somewhere.
But sure erasing a line on a map might make you feel better. The status quo will remain the same.

Plus Heaney is British by the way.

The Dublin “republican” loves the old try colour

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'll let Heaney himself answer you there.




Take it handy gormdubh, you didn't manage to wind anyone up the last time with your nonsense and you aren't going to do it this time either.

I am not trying to wind anyone up I am just telling the truth. Plus I never rated Heaney. His poems sound like something a transition year student would do. Never saw the fuss. He also had a British passport before an Irish one and wrote in English!

RobMc59

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Ahh now sure your dreaming, Francie told us all that Irish people don’t watch the premiership.....sure he would never tell a lie

I heard on the grapevine francie is a rabid Man U fan.

Shefwedfan

RobMc59 wrote: »

I heard on the grapevine francie is a rabid Man U fan.

Ahh but he can’t watch them down his local, only good old Irish sports in that pub

You will find the pub easily, it’s the one with no-one in it Bar Francie while the rest of the county is down watching the premiership in the other pub