How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The refusal to give Irish the same status as native languages have in the rest of the UK (Unionist exceptionalism again) and here was what 'politicised' it.
It was 'depoliticised' at St Andrew's by agreement, only to be re-politicised' by the mis-use of 'petitions of concern' and DUP demeaning and intransigence in delivering the agreement.

I don't like the way both sides play with the language. SF cynically using it as a symbolic trick without (most) actually properly using the language. The Unionists just cynically use the Irish language just for the sake of being anti-Irish.

If people care about the language just use the it in daily life simple as that. Miles better than pretend 'status' agendas. On the other hand if anyone is anti a particular language I find that odd. As a language is just a language.

NI will always be a bit of a basket case as everything is politicised and words are analyised. As far as I can see it is a pity the likes of the SDLP and Alliance Party does not have a larger voice in NI. As it would be a sign (imo) that NI has moved away from pettiness and grown up. It would also be a sign that some form of a UI would have much more of a chance of stability, if that was the way things went.

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I don't like the way both sides play with the language. SF cynically using it as a symbolic trick without (most) actually properly using the language. The Unionists just cynically use the Irish language just for the sake of being anti-Irish.

If people care about the language just use the it in daily life simple as that. Miles better than pretend 'status' agendas. On the other hand if anyone is anti a particular language I find that odd. As a language is just a language.

NI will always be a bit of a basket case as everything is politicised and words are analyised. As far as I can see it is a pity the likes of the SDLP and Alliance Party does not have a larger voice in NI. As it would be a sign (imo) that NI has moved away from pettiness and grown up. It would also be a sign that some form of a UI would have much more of a chance of stability, if that was the way things went.

The only parties that politicise Irish are the unionist ones. That's it.

The SDLP and Alliance have only recently increased their representation. Do keep up.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I don't like the way both sides play with the language. SF cynically using it as a symbolic trick without (most) actually properly using the language. The Unionists just cynically use the Irish language just for the sake of being anti-Irish.

If people care about the language just use the it in daily life simple as that. Miles better than pretend 'status' agendas. On the other hand if anyone is anti a particular language I find that odd. As a language is just a language.

NI will always be a bit of a basket case as everything is politicised and words are analyised. As far as I can see it is a pity the likes of the SDLP and Alliance Party does not have a larger voice in NI. As it would be a sign (imo) that NI has moved away from pettiness and grown up. It would also be a sign that some form of a UI would have much more of a chance of stability, if that was the way things went.

An ILA de-politicises Irish for all time...that is why it is sought. No longer will it be depending on somebody who demeans it for political effect/grandstanding.

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

The only parties that politicise Irish are the unionist ones. That's it.

The SDLP and Alliance have only recently increased their representation. Do keep up.

Oh I am well kept up I can see through codology the Irish language act was just the latest political football between both sides. 100% cynical between the pair of them.
It shows me that Ireland is not ready for a UI really with those clowns on both sides. SF and the DUP. A UI needs to moderate in order to succeed not one side deliberately winding the other up to score political points.

Until I see The Alliance Party and SDLP rising I feel that only then will be the proper time to call for a border poll. A UI simply won't work with extremes like SF and the DUP as the main representatives of either side. Impossible.

BonnieSituation

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Oh I am well kept up I can see through codology the Irish language act was just the latest political football between both sides. 100% cynical between the pair of them.
It shows me that Ireland is not ready for a UI really with those clowns on both sides. SF and the DUP. A UI needs to moderate in order to succeed not one side deliberately winding the other up to score political points.

Until I see The Alliance Party and SDLP rising I feel that only then will be the proper time to call for a border poll. A UI simply won't work with extremes like SF and the DUP as the main representatives of either side. Impossible.

Literally the only side doing any winding up is the Unionist side.

Seriously.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

An ILA de-politicises Irish for all time...that is why it is sought. No longer will iT be depending on somebody who demeans it for political effect/grandstanding.

I am not buying that at all. The Irish Language Act was called for precisely for political effect/grandstanding. It would do feck all for the language in reality. Other than symbolism.
Plus symbolism is the main issue why there is border in the first place. And the cycle continues.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Oh I am well kept up I can see through codology the Irish language act was just the latest political football between both sides. 100% cynical between the pair of them.
It shows me that Ireland is not ready for a UI really with those clowns on both sides. SF and the DUP. A UI needs to moderate in order to succeed not one side deliberately winding the other up to score political points.

Until I see The Alliance Party and SDLP rising I feel that only then will be the proper time to call for a border poll. A UI simply won't work with extremes like SF and the DUP as the main representatives of either side. Impossible.

I love this delusional stuff that those in the south are somehow above those in the north politically.

Look at the carry-on here to avoid giving a share of the power to 24% of the electorate.

Just as bad as any Unionist bigotry and exclusion in essence.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I am not buying that at all. The Irish Language Act was called for precisely for political effect/grandstanding. It would do feck all for the language in reality. Other than symbolism.
Plus symbolism is the main issue why there is border in the first place. And the cycle continues.

The act was even called for by a political party.

An act was agreed at St Andrew's...i.e. it was 'de-politicised' because if it is constitutionally protected it no longer can be victim to bigotry or neglect.

Once again as with the restoration of the Executive, Unionists walked away from that (claiming they never signed up to it) and caused political unrest. Unionists want to be the arbiters of rights, both on cultural and religious grounds...they lost on all fronts again.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I love this delusional stuff that those in the south are somehow above those in the north politically.

Look at the carry-on here to avoid giving a share of the power to 24% of the electorate.

Just as bad as any Unionist bigotry and exclusion in essence.

I have already covered this on other threads Francie. Just add up the popular vote of those parties who said they would not go into government with SF. It is twice as much as SF. That is a mandate or 'mondate' as they say up in NI.

Yeah the ROI is above NI politically that is obvious - more copped on, clued in, grown up and sensible. NI always reminds me of glorified County Councillors making noise spinning the same records.

Kind of like teenagers. And you never know if the hormones would get the better of them again - and violence flares up. A UI in order to be stable has no hope with that sort of eejitry.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

I have already covered this on other threads Francie. Just add up the popular vote of those parties who said they would not go into government with SF. It is twice as much as SF. That is a mandate or 'mondate' as they say up in NI.

Childishly ignoring 24% of the electorate. No better or worse than the exclusionary politics practiced by Unionists. Unionist lost on that one as will the childish exclusionists in the south...it's only a matter of time.

Yeah the ROI is above NI politically that is obvious - more copped on, clued in, grown up and sensible. NI always reminds me of glorified County Councillors making noise spinning the same records.

Kind of like teenagers. And you never know if the hormones would get the better of them again - and violence flares up. A UI in order to be stable has no hope with that sort of eejitry.

The civil war parties in the south are more 'copped on, clued in, grown up and sensible'...are you having a fecking laugh here. It is only just over a decade since they put this country on the economic rocks ffs.

Get a grip on reality there GDG.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And what about your nationalist neighbours? Reckon they'll join ye for another go at the partition merry-go-round?

I would think they'll be trying to make it work, same as all but republicans are doing now with Northern Ireland

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So now it isnt, 'no Unionists', but rather, 'not the right Unionists' talking about it?

I suppose Jamie Bryson and Sammy Wilson would be the leading voices of Unionism in your eyes.

The Unionist pride in hand outs is also quite disturbing. 'Our wee country is so f*cked that only the Brits can afford us'.

I am a UUP voter and supporter, so more like Doug Beattie and Robin Swann, if you need examples. I am a very long way from Sammy wilson

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

I would think they'll be trying to make it work, same as all but republicans are doing now with Northern Ireland

So they'll vote for re-partitioning the state AFTER a UI is achieved?

gormdubhgorm

Here was a discussion of a UI in 2015. Opinion polls and the like.

By the way Pearse Doherty was captioned as FF

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Childishly ignoring 24% of the electorate. No better or worse than the exclusionary politics practiced by Unionists. Unionist lost on that one as will the childish exclusionists in the south...it's only a matter of time.

They were not ignored they just did not get more than the 50% of the parties who did not want them in government. For moral and transparency reasons many like myself think SF is not ready for government in the ROI. They carry too much baggage and bring Ireland back to a past rather than a future.

The civil war parties in the south are more 'copped on, clued in, grown up and sensible'...are you having a fecking laugh here. It is only just over a decade since they put this country on the economic rocks ffs. Get a grip on reality there GDG.

That was because of a worldwide economic crash. I honestly don't think both sides in NI are ready for a UI. Too much pantomime politics, symbolism, and flag waving in each others faces.

If anyone wants a laugh you only need to listen to many of the discussions on that Nolan show on BBC. It is ridiculous when you stand back from it. Like the Jerry Springer show at times. Unionists and Nationalists roaring about 'identity'.
As a person living in the ROI. I think do I really want all that baggage? It will just drag the ROI down to NI's level. Let the Brits deal with it and keep them.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They were not ignored they just did not get more than the 50% of the parties who did not want them in government. For moral and transparency reasons many like myself think SF is not ready for government in the ROI. They carry too much baggage and bring Ireland back to a past rather than a future.

The Greens gor 7%. 93% didnt want them in government .see where this is going?

That was because of a worldwide economic crash. I honestly don't think both sides in NI are ready for a UI. Too much pantomime politics, symbolism, and flag waving in each others faces.

If anyone wants a laugh you only need to listen to many of the discussions on that Nolan show on BBC. It is ridiculous when you stand back from it. Like the Jerry Springer show at times. Unionists and Nationalists roaring about 'identity'.
As a person living in the ROI. I think do I really want all that baggage? It will just drag the ROI down to NI's level. Let the Brits deal with it and keep them.

Nolan is a click bait controversialist...if you judged the south on the cobtriburions to the Joe Duffy circus...it would be a similar mistake.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I love this delusional stuff that those in the south are somehow above those in the north politically.

Look at the carry-on here to avoid giving a share of the power to 24% of the electorate.

Just as bad as any Unionist bigotry and exclusion in essence.

What kind of an argument is that, pure rubbish.

Since when is ‘power’ disbursed on a percentage of those elected from a particular party.

If you think you deserve ‘power’ go ahead an form a government.

If you can’t, then ask why the electorate voted for candidates who can?

Ask why there are issues with a party which the majority of the electorate cannot agree to.... CCC is an example.

The murder of a Garda in Our territory is another , not condemned by one of its members. Dancing on the head of a pin stuff.

It’s all fine, there was a war on.

Jeez man, there are some naive folk around this territory.

The mind boggles as to how these folk thing how ‘simple’ the electorate are.


As the dog says “News for ya, pal…………………

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

What kind of an argument is that, pure rubbish.

Since when is ‘power’ disbursed on a percentage of those elected from a particular party.

If you think you deserve ‘power’ go ahead an form a government.

If you can’t, then ask why the electorate voted for candidates who can?

Ask why there are issues with a party which the majority of the electorate cannot agree to.... CCC is an example.

The murder of a Garda in Our territory is another , not condemned by one of its members. Dancing on the head of a pin stuff.

It’s all fine, there was a war on.

Jeez man, there are some naive folk around this territory.

The mind boggles as to how these folk thing how ‘simple’ the electorate are.


As the dog says “News for ya, pal…………………

As vitriolic and one sided as any belligerent unionist, I'll give you that.

Majority of the electorate do not endorse FG or Ff or the Greens.

That they huddle together ignoring other larger mandates is the point.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As vitriolic and one sided as any belligerent unionist, I'll give you that.

Majority of the electorate do not endorse FG or Ff or the Greens.

That they huddle together ignoring other larger mandates is the point.

He heh…………trying to subtly goad people with your favourite tactic..


Choosing to ignore reality and continue to peddle idealistic vacuous tosh .

Game is up.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

He heh…………trying to subtly goad people with your favourite tactic..


Choosing to ignore reality and continue to peddle idealistic vacuous tosh .

Game is up.

Not trying to goad you. Telling you clearly that you are speaking like a Unionist in the 60's 70' or 80's.

They tried their best to exclude and ignore.
But they couldn't do it. Inevitably (just as it will happen here too) the mandate became too strong and they were dragged kicking and screaming to democracy.

Same here. The belligerent exclusionists day's are numbered. You know it and so do I.

BonnieSituation

I appear to have wandered into yet another "SF are the devil" thread.

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Not trying to goad you. Telling you clearly that you are speaking like a Unionist in the 60's 70' or 80's.

They tried their best to exclude and ignore.
But they couldn't do it. Inevitably (just as it will happen here too) the mandate became too strong and they were dragged kicking and screaming to democracy.

Same here. The belligerent exclusionists day's are numbered. You know it and so do I.

Central Criminal Court.... wouldn’t be in favour of that bad boy going down.

Chap could get ‘ taken to a shed’ and told politely he/ she saw nothing.

How many were in that bar in Belfast... blind convention as it turned out

Police cock up again..... big toilets up there....... seat forty or fifty they say.

Can’t understand their incompetence.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Central Criminal Court.... wouldn’t be in favour of that bad boy going down.

Chap could get ‘ taken to a shed’ and told politely he/ she saw nothing.

How many were in that bar in Belfast... blind convention as it turned out

Police cock up again..... big toilets up there....... seat forty or fifty they say.

Can’t understand their incompetence.

And this has what to do with a United Ireland?

Brendan Bendar

BonnieSituation wrote: »

And this has what to do with a United Ireland?

Everything,dude, everything.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Everything,dude, everything.

Is that all you have against it Brendan, your dislike of the Shinners?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Is that all you have against it Brendan, your dislike of the Shinners?

Merely pointing out some, and there’s plenty more, of the reasons sensible folk in our country have in having folk like those I have mentioned about the place.

Worked far too hard and gave far too much to let that lot and their fellow travelers to take control.

The shadowy figures working the puppets from secure well sinecured pensioned haciendas wouldn’t have much respect for the Brenner.

Feeling would be mutual

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Merely pointing out some, and there’s plenty more, of the reasons sensible folk in our country have in having folk like those I have mentioned about the place.

Worked far too hard and gave far too much to let that lot and their fellow travelers to take control.

The shadowy figures working the puppets from secure well sinecured pensioned haciendas wouldn’t have much respect for the Brenner.

Feeling would be mutual

like those I have mentioned about the place.

Did you channel Unionist bigotry on purpose there?

As I said, you know, history knows, what is inevitable here. You'll lose and just be a sad belligerent watching as the world moves on without you.

BonnieSituation

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

Merely pointing out some, and there’s plenty more, of the reasons sensible folk in our country have in having folk like those I have mentioned about the place.

Worked far too hard and gave far too much to let that lot and their fellow travelers to take control.

The shadowy figures working the puppets from secure well sinecured pensioned haciendas wouldn’t have much respect for the Brenner.

Feeling would be mutual

All you have to do is vote No.

downcow

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Here was a discussion of a UI in 2015. Opinion polls and the like.

By the way Pearse Doherty was captioned as FF

Well there we are. That puts the lie to all the nonsense being peddled on here. It just not happening, in our lifetimes, or ever. And the gfa prevents any silly stuff going on. As unionists we are rock solid and safe in the union. Thanks to the gfa

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Well there we are. That puts the lie to all the nonsense being peddled on here. It just not happening, in our lifetimes, or ever. And the gfa prevents any silly stuff going on. As unionists we are rock solid and safe in the union. Thanks to the gfa

Well, seeing as you have no idea about anything south of Newry you'd be unaware of Miriam's agenda.

Also, I wonder, has anything happened since 2015 to maybe, change these attitudes? Anything monumental?

As I've said before on several occasions:-

- You and your belligerent are a lost cause and energy shouldn't be wasted on you.

- When a border poll comes all you have to do is vote No.

So yeah, the principle of consent keeps the union safe as it should no idea why you think it doesn't and need to harp on and on.