How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Pariahs?

SF are really struggling to get votes all over Ireland.

Even from across the Irish sea its plain to see people in NI(regardless of religious persuasion)are moving more central in their views.Also,this attitude appears the norm in Ireland,extremism is a big turn off for moderate minded folk-does'nt the thought -why have the other parties united against SFcross your mind?Is everyone else wrong except them?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

So Francie is afraid to answer this question. Is there anyone on the nationalist/republican viewpoint who would have the courage to answer it. It's quite interesting because I think there is no Unionist will have any difficulty answering it about their own community.

So here's the question again.
Let’s try this! How about we try to name examples of people from our own community who participated in the ‘conflict’ and who we think it would be inappropriate to remember by putting up a statue, memorial stone or naming a play park after.
Unless of course you think no one is beyond the pale with regard to publicly remembering?
I will start the ball rolling.
Michael Stone, Johnny Adair, Billy Hutchinson,
And remember I fully respect their families right to remember them quietly and privately in whatever way they wish, but it should absolutely not be done publicly because of the many victims out there still alive.

What is wrong with you?

The question has been answered three times now.
Just because you want to start silly name games that gets us nowhere doesnt change that.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

It's quite interesting because I think there is no Unionist will have any difficulty answering it about their own community

Unionists condemn unionist paramilitaries but defend the RUC/UDR who colluded with them.

What you want is supremacy, to be free to venerate the forces of the rotten sectarian statelet while demanding Republicans stop commemorating their dead.

You'll never learn.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Unionists condemn unionist paramilitaries but defend the RUC/UDR who colluded with them.

What you want is supremacy, to be free to venerate the forces of the rotten sectarian statelet while demanding Republicans stop commemorating their dead.

You'll never learn.

All this waffle from you and Francie is meaningless.
I have named a few examples from my community for whom I think it would be obscene to remember publicly giveN relatives of their victims would be retraumatised.
You can’t do likewise. You won’t give us examples of people in you community who should not be remembered publicly as it would be obscene and retraumatise their victims.
Seems you don’t care about the feelings of my community.

It is very telling that you can’t do it and keep focusing back on what you see as the unionist perpetrators

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

All this waffle from you and Francie is meaningless.
I have named a few examples from my community for whom I think it would be obscene to remember publicly giveN relatives of their victims would be retraumatised.
You can’t do likewise. You won’t give us examples of people in you community who should not be remembered publicly as it would be obscene and retraumatise their victims.
Seems you don’t care about the feelings of my community.

It is very telling that you can’t do it and keep focusing back on what you see as the unionist perpetrators

Again, what is wrong with you?

I will go further than you ALL of those in your community involved in the conflict should not be memorialised and likewise mine. Along with those who ran the sectarian bigoted state.

Why cant you say that?

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Unionists condemn unionist paramilitaries but defend the RUC/UDR who colluded with them.

What you want is supremacy, to be free to venerate the forces of the rotten sectarian statelet while demanding Republicans stop commemorating their dead.

You'll never learn.

....and just to blow your little nonsense out of the water.
In my view it would be obscene if my community publicly remembered billy Mcgaughey (RUC) as it would retraumitise his catholic victims.

Now let’s hold our breath for a real reply

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, what is wrong with you?

I will go further than you ALL of those in your community involved in the conflict should not be memorialised and likewise mine. Along with those who ran the sectarian bigoted state.

Why cant you say that?

Classic Francie deflection when the question is too hard

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Classic Francie deflection when the question is too hard

The question was answered. You fill in the names in your silly and pointless games yourself.

And answer the question you are avoiding...are you in favour of taking down all memorials to those involved in or who caused the conflict/war or just some?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The question was answered. You fill in the names in your silly and pointless games yourself.

And answer the question you are avoiding...are you in favour of taking down all memorials to those involved in or who caused the conflict/war or just some?

Deflection.
I never avoid a question but you need to answer the one you are avoiding first.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Deflection.
I never avoid a question but you need to answer the one you are avoiding first.

I think this is exactly why you set these silly games up.

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

In my view it would be obscene if my community publicly remembered billy Mcgaughey (RUC) as it would retraumitise his catholic victims.

Yeah the one that was caught murdering innocent Catholics, you have no problem venerating the RUC/UDR that turned a blind eye to these murderers. I'd say an awful of lot of your Catholic neighbours who were around at the time of the Glenanne Gang see little difference in you guys glorifying the RUC/UDR and unionist paramilitaries.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yeah the one that was caught murdering innocent Catholics, you have no problem venerating the RUC/UDR that turned a blind eye to these murderers. I'd say an awful of lot of your Catholic neighbours who were around at the time of the Glenanne Gang see little difference in you guys glorifying the RUC/UDR and unionist paramilitaries.

More deflection. It was a simple question and very telling that no one will even attempt to answer it.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

More deflection. It was a simple question and very telling that no one will even attempt to answer it.

It's answered...any NAME YOU COME UP WITH...if they were involved in the conflict = no memorial.


WTF is wrong with you?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's answered...any NAME YOU COME UP WITH...if they were involved in the conflict = no memorial.


WTF is wrong with you?

Francie. You needed get angry. I am asking something very different to what you are replying.

Let’s be really clear. I can name you people from my community who were responsible for murdering catholics. I can say unequivocally and unilaterally that they should not be remembered publicly, have memorial stones, statues or playparks. Simply because I care about the feelings of my catholic neighbours.
I oppose memorials to these guys no matter what memorials the ira etc have.

You seem unable to do this. It’s all whataboutery.

Can you not just give us a few examples from your community and say categorically that you oppose any public remembering of them no matter what the brits or the prods do.

It is really enlightening for me that not one republican on here can name one single person from their own community that they believe should not get a public memorial.

I do think it gets right to the phycology of republicans.

And you are clearly not on your own Francie.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Francie. You needed get angry. I am asking something very different to what you are replying.

Let’s be really clear. I can name you people from my community who were responsible for murdering catholics. I can say unequivocally and unilaterally that they should not be remembered publicly, have memorial stones, statues or playparks. Simply because I care about the feelings of my catholic neighbours.
I oppose memorials to these guys no matter what memorials the ira etc have.

You seem unable to do this. It’s all whataboutery.

Can you not just give us a few examples from your community and say categorically that you oppose any public remembering of them no matter what the brits or the prods do.

It is really enlightening for me that not one republican on here can name one single person from their own community that they believe should not get a public memorial.

I do think it gets right to the phycology of republicans.

And you are clearly not on your own Francie.

NONE OF THEM SHOULD. Seriously...what is unclear or unequivocal about this.

I am not getting into a stupid name game with you.

Can I be any clearer.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Francie. You needed get angry. I am asking something very different to what you are replying.

Let’s be really clear. I can name you people from my community who were responsible for murdering catholics. I can say unequivocally and unilaterally that they should not be remembered publicly, have memorial stones, statues or playparks. Simply because I care about the feelings of my catholic neighbours.
I oppose memorials to these guys no matter what memorials the ira etc have.

You seem unable to do this. It’s all whataboutery.

Can you not just give us a few examples from your community and say categorically that you oppose any public remembering of them no matter what the brits or the prods do.

It is really enlightening for me that not one republican on here can name one single person from their own community that they believe should not get a public memorial.

I do think it gets right to the phycology of republicans.

And you are clearly not on your own Francie.

What's the "psychology of republicans"?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

NONE OF THEM SHOULD. Seriously...what is unclear or unequivocal about this.

I am not getting into a stupid name game with you.

Can I be any clearer.

Yes. It would be much clearer if you answered the question I am asking.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

NONE OF THEM SHOULD. Seriously...what is unclear or unequivocal about this.

I am not getting into a stupid name game with you.

Can I be any clearer.

Just to be a bit clearer. Are you saying no republicans should be remembered publicly, irrespective of what the brits and prods do? Or is it just more whataboutery from you?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Yes. It would be much clearer if you answered the question I am asking.

Jesus. How much clearer do you need than ALL OF THEM.

Any name you care to come up with in your silly game. Go on try it...name somebody....see what my answer is. It will be a big fat emphatic NO.

Stop playing dense and answer what you were asked...this silly tangent is your tried and tested strawman to avoid answering something. I can read you like a book at this stage.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Jesus. How much clearer do you need than ALL OF THEM.

Any name you care to come up with in your silly game. Go on try it...name somebody....see what my answer is. It will be a big fat emphatic NO.

Stop playing dense and answer what you were asked...this silly tangent is your tried and tested strawman to avoid answering something. I can read you like a book at this stage.

I think all other posters know you were asked a deadly simple question which you refuse to answer but I will take your offer at face value and name one and see what your answer is.

Do you believe Raymond mcriesh should not be remembered publicly in the name of a play park, irrespective of what unionists/brits/etc do. And that it is extremely hurtful to his victims?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think all other posters know you were asked a deadly simple question which you refuse to answer but I will take your offer at face value and name one and see what your answer is.

Do you believe Raymond mcriesh should not be remembered publicly in the name of a play park, irrespective of what unionists/brits/etc do. And that it is extremely hurtful to his victims?

Yes, if you had noticed, I said all of those involved in the conflict should not be memorialised.
The second 'add-on' part to your question...'irrespective of what the British or uniionsts do' is immaterial.

I said ALL...it's means ALL, republicans, unionists, british Irish etc etc.

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, if you had noticed, I said all of those involved in the conflict should not be memorialised.
The second 'add-on' part to your question...'irrespective of what the British or uniionsts do' is immaterial.

I said ALL...it's means ALL, republicans, unionists, british Irish etc etc.

Best to move on I think.

The absolute hack of his posting today; streams of nonsense. Beckett would be proud.

FrancieBrady

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Best to move on I think.

The absolute hack of his posting today; streams of nonsense. Beckett would be proud.

Unbelievable. All done to avoid accepting that if one is removed they all have to go.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Yes, if you had noticed, I said all of those involved in the conflict should not be memorialised.
The second 'add-on' part to your question...'irrespective of what the British or uniionsts do' is immaterial.

I said ALL...it's means ALL, republicans, unionists, british Irish etc etc.

I am afraid you are still talking in riddles. Is this still whataboutery

Why can you not just be as clear as me.

“I am completely opposed to a public memorial to Jonny Adair,billy Hutchinson (MLA) or Billy McGaughy (RUC) as it would be so hurtful to my catholic neighbours. “

No mention of the ‘other side’ and whataboutery. It’s just the decent thing to say unilaterally.

It’s really interesting that you can’t say it and no other republican will even comment except for Bonnie trying to rescue you out of the hole.

It’s interesting but it’s very sad and unfortunately does not surprise me. It’s also how sf do politics

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Unbelievable. All done to avoid accepting that if one is removed they all have to go.

This is one of the big problems here. Republicans can never just for ‘the right thing’ It has to be negotiated out of them.

No matter what memorials republicans have, I can say categorically that I believe public remembrance of Jonny Adair is wrong, hurtful and simply should not happen. Sad you can’t say same about an ira member who has murdered my community. Actually it is disgusting

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Best to move on I think.

The absolute hack of his posting today; streams of nonsense. Beckett would be proud.

One simple sentence from you or Francie would sort it. Or even having the balls to say, “I disagree and while others put up offensive memorials then I am happy republicans put up memorials that offend unionists“
Which is the subtext of what he is saying

Shefwedfan

downcow wrote: »

One simple sentence from you or Francie would sort it. Or even having the balls to say, “I disagree and while others put up offensive memorials then I am happy republicans put up memorials that offend unionists“
Which is the subtext of what he is saying

Too much sense , you won’t get an answer to that

You should know it’s ok for one side to do things but no way are the unionist allowed to do the same

That’s the SF way

You will be happy the good people of the Rep had the good grace not to vote in SF so we have an excellent group of politicians for the next few years

Junkyard Tom

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You should know it’s ok for one side to do things but no way are the unionist allowed to do the same

If glorifying war, violence, paramilitaries, paramilitary police forces, and so on, was outlawed in the north Unionists wouldn't have much of culture left.

By the way Fianna Fáil are finished. They're a nothing party with nothing to offer but more of the same, total sell-outs. MM is their last first term Taoiseach.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If glorifying war, violence, paramilitaries, paramilitary police forces, and so on, was outlawed in the north Unionists wouldn't have much of culture left.

By the way Fianna Fáil are finished. They're a nothing party with nothing to offer but more of the same, total sell-outs. MM is their last first term Taoiseach.

Well now junkyard. Is there one single ira murderer that you would say remembering publicly would be obscene. I give you another from my community Terence Knight (UDA).
Go on Tom have the balls that Francie and Bonnie don’t have

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

One simple sentence from you or Francie would sort it. Or even having the balls to say, “I disagree and while others put up offensive memorials then I am happy republicans put up memorials that offend unionists“
Which is the subtext of what he is saying

What are you on about?

I said that I personally would NOT put any memorials to ANYONE up.

Memorials are put up by loyalists and republicans. If you advocate taking ONE of them down, then it must be ALL of them. That is the only democratic way to do it. If McCreesh is 'offensive' then Carson is equally offensive.

Are you prepared for that conversation downcow? (the question you were inventing games to deflect from, is back)




I have already given my opinion of the McCreesh park.