How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

No Fionn,I'm genuinely fascinated with all aspects of Ireland.
My 'gurning'comment was meant in jest(the English interpretation of gurning)I was unaware of the Irish meaning until you used it a few weeks ago.

Ah let's be real, Rob....there's no way, 'their gurning gobs' is anything but insulting. I'm open to correction, but I don't recall ever seeing you make such comments, 'in jest' about members of any other party.

I can talk away with Downcow, we might disagree on a lot, but I'm sure we'd have a decent chat over a pint or two. I appreciate that his hostility towards Republicanism is at least open and honest.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Not OO
As i understand local bands are now applying to parade their local towns where people can watch from their gardens. They will restrict it strictly to 30 band members. Rather than joining Michele, rather they will demonstrate discipline and how it should be done.

That's all within regulations and not banned, why would they not have done that anyway?

'Discipline' and Orange parades of the past...you are having a laugh?

There's no Funerals Commission needed yet, bad and all as SF got it.

Fionn1952

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's all within regulations and not banned, why would they not have done that anyway?

'Discipline' and Orange parades of the past...you are having a laugh?

There's no Funerals Commission needed yet, bad and all as SF got it.

I was under the impression that a number of band parades have already been approved in the manner Downcow described? Am I mistaken?

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I was under the impression that a number of band parades have already been approved in the manner Downcow described? Am I mistaken?

yeah, I think you are correct. I think the courts told the Parades Commission that they could not stop them

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I was under the impression that a number of band parades have already been approved in the manner Downcow described? Am I mistaken?

That's what I understood too.
That's why I was asking.

Is the point they are making, 'Because themuns did we should be allowed to as well'?

If it isn't why didn't they apply within the required time...28 days prior to event. Probably to play the victimhood card when refused.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Ah let's be real, Rob....there's no way, 'their gurning gobs' is anything but insulting. I'm open to correction, but I don't recall ever seeing you make such comments, 'in jest' about members of any other party.

I can talk away with Downcow, we might disagree on a lot, but I'm sure we'd have a decent chat over a pint or two. I appreciate that his hostility towards Republicanism is at least open and honest.

I've never denied my dislike of SF which is unremarkable as that's the default view of most British people.
I'm glad the other parties have United against them in Ireland.

munsterlegend

RobMc59 wrote: »

I've never denied my dislike of SF which is unremarkable as that's the default view of most British people.
I'm glad the other parties have United against them in Ireland.

Most British people don’t have a clue who DUP or SF are. I am sure most British people wouldn’t like if their govt drove their artillery into a football pitch and started shooting at the players/crowd but you seem to think that was aright. Enough said about you Rob and your toxic neutrality on the Irish question.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's what I understood too.
That's why I was asking.

Is the point they are making, 'Because themuns did we should be allowed to as well'?

If it isn't why didn't they apply within the required time...28 days prior to event. Probably to play the victimhood card when refused.

They didn’t apply because they were abiding buy the guidelines.
Two things changed in last 48 hrs. Rules are being relaxed to allow 30 people and one of the ladies making the rules pissed of the population by flouting the rules.

Edgware

munsterlegend wrote: »

Most British people don’t have a clue who DUP or SF are. I am sure most British people wouldn’t like if their govt drove their artillery into a football pitch and started shooting at the players/crowd but you seem to think that was aright. Enough said about you Rob and your toxic neutrality on the Irish question.

What's the story Rory

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

They didn’t apply because they were abiding buy the guidelines.
Two things changed in last 48 hrs. Rules are being relaxed to allow 30 people and one of the ladies making the rules pissed of the population by flouting the rules.

So they don't want to abide by regulations because they think themuns didn't?

Figures alright.

And when they get refused because of the notice period, they'll probably wreck the place because they are the real victims.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I've never denied my dislike of SF which is unremarkable as that's the default view of most British people.
I'm glad the other parties have United against them in Ireland.

It isn't as, 'default' a view as you'd like to think, Rob. I'd vouch we could cobble together majority in Britain who either don't give a toss about SF (possibly a majority on this alone, with smaller additions from the next two), outright favour SF (leaning further North mostly I'd guess), or while not outright supporting SF, understanding where they are coming from. I'd

'Other parties' haven't united against them, they've just had their best electoral return, and the two parties with a vested interest in maintaining the two party false-dichotomy ramped up the rhetoric and some small players decided not to partner with either side. Perhaps a little more reading on Irish politics would give you greater insight into this. For the record, my first preference went Social Democrat during the most recent election, and SF haven't featured highly in my voting preferences for the entire time I've lived south of the border. prefer none of the three in government, but I doubt that's likely to occur in my lifetime.

The thing is, I have a fundamental dislike of the Conservative party. I'm not a particularly subtle or tactful man, but I'd say you'd have a hard time finding me being as personally insulting towards any Tories as you have just been towards SF.....and I'd CERTAINLY be willing to bet that my life has been negatively impacted more significantly by Tory policies and actions than yours has by SF policies and actions.

All I'm saying is perhaps there are better ways to share opinions than petty insults?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So they don't want to abide by regulations because they think themuns didn't?

Figures alright.

And when they get refused because of the notice period, they'll probably wreck the place because they are the real victims.

Wishful thinking Francie.
I can guarantee you they will not be wrecking the place.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So Covid knows to stay away from one and not the other. Cool story!

I thought this post below (from I assume a southerner) fairly well sums up the hypocrisy going on. As you read it try and think how many posters on this thread fit the bill as the ‘shinnerbots online army’, as well as yourself of course Francie lol.

“ Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.”

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I thought this post below (from I assume a southerner) fairly well sums up the hypocrisy going on. As you read it try and think how many posters on this thread fit the bill as the ‘shinnerbots online army’, as well as yourself of course Francie lol.

“ Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.”

No more than the parades that have been allowed, which nobody has complained about or begrudges which bit of the bolded bit above was against the regulations?

I'll tell you downcow what was against the regulations 'taking selfies'.
Totally wrong and should not have happened and sends the completely wrong signal.

If regulations were broken in the numbers of the cortege and whatever arrangements were made with the PSNI then fines should follow.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No more than the parades that have been allowed, which nobody has complained about or begrudges which bit of the bolded bit above was against the regulations?

I'll tell you downcow what was against the regulations 'taking selfies'.
Totally wrong and should not have happened and sends the completely wrong signal.

If regulations were broken in the numbers of the cortege and whatever arrangements were made with the PSNI then fines should follow.

Just a few of the regs broken which people who have lost children obeyed.

Friends can only attend funerals if there is no family to attend. - storey family was there
30 max gathering outside - hundreds were there.
Places of worship were opened for prayer not for 180 to go in for funeral.
Friends (Adams, Kelly etc)broke all rules by carrying coffin. Should have been family only
Podium and loudspeakers erected - why?

Etc etc etc. And you think only the selfie !!!

downcow

And this may sound rediculous but there are strong rumours circulating in my community that he wasn't even buried. That it was all theatre.
Unbelievable I know but from reliable sources.
Could you shed some light on this Francie ?

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Just a few of the regs broken which people who have lost children obeyed.

Friends can only attend funerals if there is no family to attend. - storey family was there
30 max gathering outside - hundreds were there.

That isn't for you and me to assess. Arrangement satisfactory to the PSNI were made before the funeral so IF they were broken then charges will follow.

Places of worship were opened for prayer not for 180 to go in for funeral.

Easing of regs. Numbers inside are based on size of venue. I have heard various figures claimed...up to authorities again.

Friends (Adams, Kelly etc)broke all rules by carrying coffin. Should have been family only

I haven't seen a rule on this in the regs...can you link to it?

Podium and loudspeakers erected - why?

Forgive me here, but 'why a band parade?' Podium etc was erected for the traditional oration obviously.
PSNI monitored the cortege all the way to the graveyard...again if there were breaches in whatever arrangements were agreed...charges will follow.

Etc etc etc. And you think only the selfie !!!

So yes, until the PSNI call it, a selfie seems to be about it, so far.

Band Parade organisers will have made the same type of arrangement. They will have had to assure authorities that they are prepared for more people to turn out than might be expected.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

And this may sound rediculous but there are strong rumours circulating in my community that he wasn't even buried. That it was all theatre.
Unbelievable I know but from reliable sources.
Could you shed some light on this Francie ?

I know as much as you do. His funeral arrangements/notice say that the cortege was due to go to Milltown Republican plot for a short ceremony and oration.

Probably done to cope with the crowds. When a member of my family died and was cremated, we left the bulk of the mourners behind and only family and close friends went to the crematorium because of the size.

Are you suggesting mourners and the police where conned? Fake coffin etc?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That isn't for you and me to assess. Arrangement satisfactory to the PSNI were made before the funeral so IF they were broken then charges will follow.


Easing of regs. Numbers inside are based on size of venue. I have heard various figures claimed...up to authorities again.


I haven't seen a rule on this in the regs...can you link to it?
Forgive me here, but 'why a band parade?' Podium etc was erected for the traditional oration obviously.
PSNI monitored the cortege all the way to the graveyard...again if there were breaches in whatever arrangements were agreed...charges will follow.



So yes, until the PSNI call it, a selfie seems to be about it, so far.

Band Parade organisers will have made the same type of arrangement. They will have had to assure authorities that they are prepared for more people to turn out than might be expected.

Nonsense
We all know the spacing rules which cannot be adhered to carrying a coffin. The very reason only close family have been allowed to.
If they put up podium with speakers they were expecting more than 30 people.

Open your eyes. Stop the denial.

It’s astounding the news that is now breaking to confirm rumours. This was not a funeral. It was theatre.
Sf/ira took over council owned crematorium. Staff sent home so ira could do the ‘boys with toys’ guard of honour. I wonder how those who attended the theatre and thought they were at a funeral will feel LOL. LOL.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I know as much as you do. His funeral arrangements/notice say that the cortege was due to go to Milltown Republican plot for a short ceremony and oration.

Probably done to cope with the crowds. When a member of my family died and was cremated, we left the bulk of the mourners behind and only family and close friends went to the crematorium because of the size.

Are you suggesting mourners and the police where conned? Fake coffin etc?

Well you tell me. I know republicans who thought they were watching a funeral LOL

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Well you tell me. I know republicans who thought they were watching a funeral LOL

Oh not another 'republican' that tells you what you want to hear.

No doubt this will all be made as sinister as possible.

Everyone knew this was going to be a big funeral, that crowds were going to turn out no matter what (I predict btw, the same thing will happen with the band parades) so were SF responsible in trying to mange that or were they wrong?

As regards 'cremation', funerals (yes, they are called 'funerals') are held all the time where the cremation might not happen for a few days after depending on the crematorium.

Nothing particularly unusual in that. Were people conned into thinking they were at a burial? I don't know, but the arrangemets I have seen online do not say the usual...'burial after....' it says this:

▪️Funeral Arrangements
The remains of our late friend and comrade Óglach Bobby Storey will arrive at his family home at 9 Owenvarragh Park, Belfast this evening, tonight at 6pm.

🙏 His wake will be open to the public from 10.00am to 10.00pm ,on Saturday and Sunday the 27th and 28th June, and from 10.00am to 6.00pm on Monday 29th June.

➕ Bobby’s remains will leave his home at 10.30am, on Tuesday 30 June, for 11.00am Mass in St Agnes’ Church, Belfast.

Following the funeral Mass the cortege will proceed to the Republican Plot at Milltown Cemetery for a short ceremony, including an oration by Bobby’s friend and comrade and iar-Uachtarán Shinn Féin Gerry Adams.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That isn't for you and me to assess. Arrangement satisfactory to the PSNI were made before the funeral so IF they were broken then charges will follow.


Easing of regs. Numbers inside are based on size of venue. I have heard various figures claimed...up to authorities again.


I haven't seen a rule on this in the regs...can you link to it?
Forgive me here, but 'why a band parade?' Podium etc was erected for the traditional oration obviously.
PSNI monitored the cortege all the way to the graveyard...again if there were breaches in whatever arrangements were agreed...charges will follow.



So yes, until the PSNI call it, a selfie seems to be about it, so far.

Band Parade organisers will have made the same type of arrangement. They will have had to assure authorities that they are prepared for more people to turn out than might be expected.

Out of curiosity, what do you think should happen if the PSNI conclude a serious breach of regulations occured?

jh79

Taken from the other thread. Looks like he was cremated.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/late-ira-chief-storey-taken-for-cremation-after-graveside-orations-39336304.html

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Out of curiosity, what do you think should happen if the PSNI conclude a serious breach of regulations occured?

Fines as laid out in the regs.

If Michelle O'Neill is responsible, resignation.

I find the request for her to stand aside during the police investigation peculiar...is the implication here that the police are not independent?
I understand why a First Minister or Deputy first minister should stand aside while a body within and appointed by the executive investigates something...but the police?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Fines as laid out in the regs.

If Michelle O'Neill is responsible, resignation.

I find the request for her to stand aside during the police investigation peculiar...is the implication here that the police are not independent?
I understand why a First Minister or Deputy first minister should stand aside while a body within and appointed by the executive investigates something...but the police?

I'd imagine because she lacks credibility now when they have to update the public on changes in the regulations which is fair enough. Good PR for the DUP too by asking for her to step aside but also saying they won't collapse the executive over it. Makes it look like they are putting the country first unlike SF with the 3 year hiatus.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I'd imagine because she lacks credibility now when they have to update the public on changes in the regulations which is fair enough. Good PR for the DUP too by asking for her to step aside but also saying they won't collapse the executive over it. Makes it look like they are putting the country first unlike SF with the 3 year hiatus.

Absolutely good PR and it is why a funeral has turned into a political football.

My take is that they will do their best to keep this an issue until the 12th stuff happens.

It's the implied slur on the PSNI I don't get.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Absolutely good PR and it is why a funeral has turned into a political football.

My take is that they will do their best to keep this an issue until the 12th stuff happens.

It's the implied slur on the PSNI I don't get.

Don't think there is an implied slur on the PSNI. We all saw the photos. She breached the regulations, to what extent we'll find out in time.

To be fair SF turned the funeral into a political football by putting the party front and centre of the ceremony.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Don't think there is an implied slur on the PSNI. We all saw the photos. She breached the regulations, to what extent we'll find out in time.

Of course there is. What would impede the PSNI investigation if O'Neill stays in her role?

To be fair SF turned the funeral into a political football by putting the party front and centre of the ceremony.

Well he wasn't a key member of the DUP or FF or FG. They gave a fairly typical honour for a key member, as every other organisation would do and previous members of SF got similar funerals. That's a bit of a cheap shot JH.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course there is. What would impede the PSNI investigation if O'Neill stays in her role?

Well he wasn't a key member of the DUP or FF or FG. They gave a fairly typical honour for a key member, as every other organisation would do and previous members of SF got similar funerals. That's a bit of a cheap shot JH.

I seen it as a question of credibility, the PSNI will say there was some level of rule breaking based on the 2 selfies. Until she has a chance to apologies for whatever level of rule breaking there was she can't lecture others on how they conduct themselves.

Once Gerry used his funeral as a chance to have a cheap shot at Leo and Martin it became political.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I seen it as a question of credibility, the PSNI will say there was some level of rule breaking based on the 2 selfies. Until she has a chance to apologies for whatever level of rule breaking there was she can't lecture others on how they conduct themselves.

Once Gerry used his funeral as a chance to have a cheap shot at Leo and Martin it became political.

So comparing what somebody political did in his life to what others did, is turning the whole funeral into a political football?

Must take a look at other eulogies in that context.

Funny that is not why it has become controversial...I think somebody other than MON taking a selfie is the 'football' and no social distancing in places, is the reason given.

I think you are being a bit disingenuous here JH. I get it, there is a certain level of bitterness this man got a ceremony at all.