How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It's the implied slur on the PSNI I don't get.

Psni day they were not involved in the arrangements. Mary Lou says it was arranged meticulously with the Psni. Some one is telling lies and my guess is it’s the Psni

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So comparing what somebody political did in his life to what others did, is turning the whole funeral into a political football?

Must take a look at other eulogies in that context.

Funny that is not why it has become controversial...I think somebody other than MON taking a selfie is the 'football' and no social distancing in places, is the reason given.

I think you are being a bit disingenuous here JH. I get it, there is a certain level of bitterness this man got a ceremony at all.

Neither Leo or Martin had much to do with the GFA and i doubt had much interactions with the man. Picking the current leaders of the Republic for criticism had nothing to do with the mans legacy and was only of benefit to the Republic's branch of SF.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Psni day they were not involved in the arrangements. Mary Lou says it was arranged meticulously with the Psni. Some one is telling lies and my guess is it’s the Psni

Where have the PSNI said they were not involved? Here's all I can find on that.

The PSNI told the Belfast Telegraph that it had engaged with the celebrant and service organisers to highlight the public health advice and risks around Covid-19, and the requirement for those attending to adhere to social distancing.

Superintendent Melanie Jones said: "We had assurances that those attending would observe the health guidelines and that marshals would be in place to encourage those lining the cortege route to observe social distancing.

“We will now review footage gathered during the funeral and will consider any suspected breaches of the Health Protection (Coronavirus Restrictions) Regulations NI 2020.”

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Neither Leo or Martin had much to do with the GFA and i doubt had much interactions with the man. Picking the current leaders of the Republic for criticism had nothing to do with the mans legacy and was only of benefit to the Republic's branch of SF.

Life didn't come to an end with the GFA...the GFA is a process, not an end in itself. The clue is in what it is called - The Peace Process.

gormdubhgorm

I was looking at the GFA.

https://www.dfa.ie/media/dfa/alldfawebsitemedia/ourrolesandpolicies/northernireland/good-friday-agreement.pdf

See Schedule 1:

"2. Subject to paragraph 3, the Secretary of State shall exercise the power
under paragraph 1 if at any time it appears likely to him that a majority of
those voting would express a wish that Northern Ireland should cease to
be part of the United Kingdom and form part of a united Ireland.

3. The Secretary of State shall not make an order under paragraph 1
earlier than seven years after the holding of a previous poll under this
Schedule. "

When it comes down to it, it is up to the Secretary of State for NI Brandon Lewis. Who has not even discussed the issue of a border poll as yet.
This tells me that the Francie Brady's of this world have to out produce the DownCow's of this world in order to make it a clear majority. Lewis will then be under pressure to call a border poll.

But sure SF are so active on social media where would republicans find time to reproduce? Also social distancing has not helped 'the cause' for those young new republicans.

Plus even if there is a border poll in my life time. If SF lose the poll there is another long 7 year itch at least.

jh79

At least they have apologies now but i don't understand why MON is continuing the lie that she adhered to regulations when there is photographic evidence that she didn't?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-apologises-for-hurt-caused-by-photos-of-busy-pathways-at-bobby-storeys-funeral-39337465.html

I have a feeling that if the PSNI investigation doesn't go SF's way they will claim it was politically motivated;)

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

At least they have apologies now but i don't understand why MON is continuing the lie that she adhered to regulations when there is photographic evidence that she didn't?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-apologises-for-hurt-caused-by-photos-of-busy-pathways-at-bobby-storeys-funeral-39337465.html

I have a feeling that if the PSNI investigation doesn't go SF's way they will claim it was politically motivated;)

What 'photographic evidence'?

gormdubhgorm

jh79 wrote: »

At least they have apologies now but i don't understand why MON is continuing the lie that she adhered to regulations when there is photographic evidence that she didn't?

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/mary-lou-mcdonald-apologises-for-hurt-caused-by-photos-of-busy-pathways-at-bobby-storeys-funeral-39337465.html

I have a feeling that if the PSNI investigation doesn't go SF's way they will claim it was politically motivated;)

No understanding of irony from her that the fella died of a lung transplant operation failure, and spread of covid19 affects those with respiratory issues more acutely.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/bobby-storey-the-ira-s-planner-and-enforcer-who-stayed-in-the-shadows-1.4292981

But I doubt Storey himself would have been afraid of a bit of covid19 like Mary Lou was when she thought she was going to die.

"one former police officer, recalled a beating delivered by Storey to another republican who had dared to challenge the Adams-McGuinness leadership at one of key moments in the peace process.

“The man was a repeat murderer, with a penchant for cutting people’s throats, but even he was scared of Bobby Storey,” the former officer recalled.

I always find it amusing that SF seek to forget aspects of thier past and say 'move on' when it suits them. But yet glorify provo dead at every opportunity. Does that type of thing really encourage previous Unionist voters to consider voting for a UI in a future border poll I wonder?

Plus was there much Northern Bank money spent on the funeral looks like a lot of people to feed?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'photographic evidence'?

Two photographs of her getting selfies with different groups of people.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What 'photographic evidence'?

jh79 wrote: »

Two photographs of her getting selfies with different groups of people.

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1278041314815344641

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbyBhubXkAkqrX4?format=jpg&name=900x900

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Where have the PSNI said they were not involved? Here's all I can find on that.

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-deny-mary-lou-mcdonald-claim-that-force-involved-in-planning-of-bobby-storey-funeral-39337494.html

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-deny-mary-lou-mcdonald-claim-that-force-involved-in-planning-of-bobby-storey-funeral-39337494.html

What an odd statement from PSNI. First part of it states they were not involved, followed by the following

'Accordingly we were made aware of the plans for Tuesday’s funeral and local officers engaged with the celebrant and service organisers to highlight both the public health advice and risks around Covid-19, and the requirement for those attending to adhere to social distancing.'

jh79

Fionn1952 wrote: »

What an odd statement from PSNI. First part of it states they were not involved, followed by the following

'Accordingly we were made aware of the plans for Tuesday’s funeral and local officers engaged with the celebrant and service organisers to highlight both the public health advice and risks around Covid-19, and the requirement for those attending to adhere to social distancing.'

They weren't involved in the organising of it and just reminded the organisers of the regulations that should of been adhered to.

Certainly seems like SF lied that they were involved in "meticulous planning" of the event. I'm sure if they were, SF will have a paper trail or emails to support their claim.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

What an odd statement from PSNI. First part of it states they were not involved, followed by the following

'Accordingly we were made aware of the plans for Tuesday’s funeral and local officers engaged with the celebrant and service organisers to highlight both the public health advice and risks around Covid-19, and the requirement for those attending to adhere to social distancing.'

I don't really see much contradiction in what you are highlighting. It seems the PSNI just reminded the organisers of the regulations.

The huge contradiction is the PSNI saying they were not involved in the organisation, while Marylou states quite categorically that the PSNI were involved meticulously in the organisation.

I am not having a go at Sinn Fein about that issue, I actually am more inclined to think that Marylou may well be telling the truth here and the police may end up very embarrassed.

I see calls to have the issue investigated and lawyers stating clearly that it needs to be an outside force as the PSNI should not investigate itself.
It will be interesting when the truth outs

downcow

downcow wrote: »

https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/psni-deny-mary-lou-mcdonald-claim-that-force-involved-in-planning-of-bobby-storey-funeral-39337494.html

I am curious as I am out of touch with news in ROI. How is this all going down? Is there pressure on Marylou for being involved in such an outrageous event? Is it being reported widely in ROI about the cremation versus funeral saga?

Yeah_Right

jh79 wrote: »

They weren't involved in the organising of it and just reminded the organisers of the regulations that should of been adhered to.

Certainly seems like SF lied that they were involved in "meticulous planning" of the event. I'm sure if they were, SF will have a paper trail or emails to support their claim.

Like the paper trail they produced showing an agreement between the Irish government and the North to purchase PPE together I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that.

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

https://twitter.com/SJAMcBride/status/1278041314815344641

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EbyBhubXkAkqrX4?format=jpg&name=900x900

jh79 wrote: »

Two photographs of her getting selfies with different groups of people.

She has already dealt with the selfies. (23 hours ago)

O’Neill did acknowledge that she was wrong to have had a selfie taken with two of the mourners, but as SDLP leader Colum Eastwood allowed, that was perhaps another thing outside her control.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/storey-funeral-fallout-executive-safe-for-now-but-things-could-turn-toxic-1.4294772

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I don't really see much contradiction in what you are highlighting. It seems the PSNI just reminded the organisers of the regulations.

The huge contradiction is the PSNI saying they were not involved in the organisation, while Marylou states quite categorically that the PSNI were involved meticulously in the organisation.

I am not having a go at Sinn Fein about that issue, I actually am more inclined to think that Marylou may well be telling the truth here and the police may end up very embarrassed.

I see calls to have the issue investigated and lawyers stating clearly that it needs to be an outside force as the PSNI should not investigate itself.
It will be interesting when the truth outs

What else would the PSNI be contributing...picking the hymns?

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

She has already dealt with the selfies. (23 hours ago)








https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/storey-funeral-fallout-executive-safe-for-now-but-things-could-turn-toxic-1.4294772

Not the only things out her control.

The lads up in the whins and heather could tell you that, a chara.

Junkyard Tom

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Plus even if there is a border poll in my life time. If SF lose the poll there is another long 7 year itch at least.

This shows where you, and people with similar views, fail to understand seeking a United Ireland. I'm fairly sure that Republicans will lose the first border poll and so are Unionists yet Unionists don't want one and Republicans do. Can you figure out why?

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Does that type of thing really encourage previous Unionist voters to consider voting for a UI in a future border poll I wonder?

We neither seek nor require Unionist consent. When are people going to learn that Unionist electoral privilege is over? Have a read over the GFA and point out where it stipulates Unionist consent for a United Ireland.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What else would the PSNI be contributing...picking the hymns?

This is where it all falls apart when anyone attempts to have a civil reasonable discussion with you.

You know rightly there is a huge range of communication between reminding them of the regs and meticulous planning.

They could talk about numbers, marshalling, etc etc
I have from good authority that the ira were stopping cars and checking ID in west Belfast before the funeral.

downcow

I am sure most southerners, prior to talk of unification, would be interested to know who the ‘black & whites’ are. Hundreds of them invited by Sinn Fein.
Could anyone help us and explain who they are??

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

This is where it all falls apart when anyone attempts to have a civil reasonable discussion with you.

You know rightly there is a huge range of communication between reminding them of the regs and meticulous planning.

They could talk about numbers, marshalling, etc etc
I have from good authority that the ira were stopping cars and checking ID in west Belfast before the funeral.

You tell the PSNi the numbers of marshalls and their locations and like everyone else...estimate the numbers.
You say that you will comply with regs...what else is there?
What are the OO doing in relation to parades but the very same.
The PSNI were there monitoring according to media...if the RA were stopping cars, did they intervene?
Another convenient 'friend' pops up to tell you something that feeds the belligerent loyalist agenda.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What else would the PSNI be contributing...picking the hymns?

There is a difference between being involved in the "meticulous planning" of an event and just being made aware of it. SF made this claim of the PSNI. Either it's a lie or a gross exaggeration.

jh79

downcow wrote: »

I am sure most southerners, prior to talk of unification, would be interested to know who the ‘black & whites’ are. Hundreds of them invited by Sinn Fein.
Could anyone help us and explain who they are??

They seem to turn up at a lot at IRA funerals. Some coincidence alright.

jh79

downcow wrote: »

I am curious as I am out of touch with news in ROI. How is this all going down? Is there pressure on Marylou for being involved in such an outrageous event? Is it being reported widely in ROI about the cremation versus funeral saga?

Working from home today and it was just behind COVID and the recent TD appointments in the news all day.

Any more fallen "comrades" and MLD might have a tough decision to make.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

They seem to turn up at a lot at IRA funerals. Some coincidence alright.

I showed a picture on the other thread of the Garda funeral, with men in the same shirt and tie.
They were I presume the local GAA team. I presume it is SFs way of showing the 'team' support.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Working from home today and it was just behind COVID and the recent TD appointments in the news all day.

Any more fallen "comrades" and MLD might have a tough decision to make.

If you live in Ireland the same thing happens everytime SF make a mistake, particularly when high in the polls.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I showed a picture on the other thread of the Garda funeral, with men in the same shirt and tie.
They were I presume the local GAA team. I presume it is SFs way of showing the 'team' support.

Bit unusual for a political party.

gormdubhgorm

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

We neither seek nor require Unionist consent. When are people going to learn that Unionist electoral privilege is over? Have a read over the GFA and point out where it stipulates Unionist consent for a United Ireland.

Again you fail to see nuance life is not all kneecapping, bankrobbing, cover ups, and my glorified fallen are better than yours 'nah, nah, nah, nah' and so on.

In order to have any sort of a stable UI you will have to make the Unionist tradition feel included.

Otherwise any UI has no hope. It will be United in name only. And the Unionists will take up arms against Republican oppression. Rinse and repeat the Nordie pantomime of madness will continue from the headbangers on both sides. Sad thing is so called Irish Republicans have far more in common with thier so called West Brit enemy than they like to admit.