How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

Sinzo

jm08 wrote: »

|Stop dodging the question you were asked? Why do you think Sinn Fein get such a large vote in NI elections bearing in mind there are more moderate nationalist parties/neutral parties (like Alliance, Greens, PFP) that they could vote for, if they didn't want to vote for either SDLP or Sinn Fein)?

TBH you're boring me. I have no interest in Sinn Fein. I'm sick of hearing about the troubles.

50 years and we are still talking back and forth.

Your question has an obvious answer so if you can't work it out I can't help you.

I have no interest in reuniting the island.

It is a recipe for hardship for the south.

There are much more important things happening in the world.

Are u from the north yourself ?? I suspect you might be because if you were from the south u most likely wouldn't have any interest unless of course you are one of those die hard bores that constantly repeats nationalist epithets glorifying a United Ireland.

Life is too short.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

On a completely different note. Have the rest of you just received and advert for cremation a few posts back? It must be very smart. I guess it’s because we discussed Story’s cremation

Is it something to do with 'cookies' ?Google track your search history and show adverts they think maybe of interest to you(I think!)

jm08

Sinzo wrote: »

TBH you're boring me. I have no interest in Sinn Fein. I'm sick of hearing about the troubles.

I can see how you might find it 'boring' alright! What are you doing on this thread then if you have no interest?

50 years and we are still talking back and forth.

Imagine that.

Your question has an obvious answer so if you can't work it out I can't help you.

Whats the obvious answer? That you really don't know what you are talking about?

I have no interest in reuniting the island.

It is a recipe for hardship for the south.

Well, you have a vote. No one is blocking you from voting.

There are much more important things happening in the world.

Like what?

Are u from the north yourself ?? I suspect you might be because if you were from the south u most likely wouldn't have any interest unless of course you are one of those die hard bores that constantly repeats nationalist epithets glorifying a United Ireland.

Life is too short.

Got that wrong as well. And for the record, I gave my number 2 vote to a Sinn Fein candidate for the first time in the last general election.

You really are very poor at getting anything right when it comes to political opinion.

maccored

great live discussion going on at the sinn fein fb page about what a united Ireland could be and the need for a 'civic nationwide discussion'

Sinzo

jm08 wrote: »

I can see how you might find it 'boring' alright! What are you doing on this thread then if you have no interest?

Whats the obvious answer? That you really don't know what you are talking about?


Well, you have a vote. No one is blocking you from voting.

Got that wrong as well. And for the record, I gave my number 2 vote to a Sinn Fein candidate for the first time in the last general election.


You really are very poor at getting anything right when it comes to political opinion.

There is a distinction to be made between this thread and you. YOU are the bore I am referring too and your insistence on going on about Sinn Fein.....

The obvious answer is not obvious to you apparently so I wont bother spelling it out to you...

I dont need you to state the obvious. We all have a vote. It's a democracy after all.

I didn't get it wrong. There were two options. You are either from the north or the south. I guessed that you might be from the north. That was a 50 50 guess.

So you must be one of those bores that drones on and on about tiocfaidh ar la...


Other more important things going on in the world:

Brexit
Threat to the euro currency
Political unrest in America
People starving in Venezuela
People starving in Yemen and Sudan
People trafficking to Europe
The uncertainty around a possible second Covid outbreak
Putin recently paving the way for what could effectively be a dictatorship in Russia.. probably is already
Nuclear weapons in Korea and Iran
Fukushima radiation emissions
World economy on the ropes
Fracking
5.5 billion people on the planet who live on less than 2 dollars a day

Do you want me to go on??

I dare say that my political opinion rivals yours on any day of the week..

And I couldn't give a fiddlers elbow what way you voted in the last election...

Brendan Bendar

maccored wrote: »

great live discussion going on at the sinn fein fb page about what a united Ireland could be and the need for a 'civic nationwide discussion'

More pressing issues right now, a chara

“Civic nationwide discussions” are hardly what the country needs.

FrancieBrady

Brendan Bendar wrote: »

More pressing issues right now, a chara

Yeh dealing with the crimes of FF seems to have taken up the whole week so far. Heather Humphries next week into the soup by the looks of it. When would a coin get the time!

declanflynn

downcow wrote: »

I was amused again last night. I was talking to a couple of South American’s stranded here due to lockdown. Chatting about their future they said ‘like most South Americans’ they would love to move to the UK as that as seen as no1 country to emigrate to, but it is too difficult to get into so they will probably end up in Canada.
Interesting that posters on here think ni people are going to rush to exit the country that the rest of the world want to reside in - and I have heard same story recently from Africans re wanting to live in uk but will settle for USA

I was talking to two American tourists last summer in Kenmare and they said Ireland is the best counrty in the world to be in, but i think a bigger sample is needed

downcow

maccored wrote: »

great live discussion going on at the sinn fein fb page about what a united Ireland could be and the need for a 'civic nationwide discussion'

What do they mean by nationwide. There is an internationally recognised national border at Newry. Which nation do they think need to discuss it?

declanflynn

downcow wrote: »

What do they mean by nationwide. There is an internationally recognised national border at Newry. Which nation do they think need to discuss it?

That border was at Newry but it's now in the Irish sea because of brexit

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

What do they mean by nationwide. There is an internationally recognised national border at Newry. Which nation do they think need to discuss it?

Your future is tied with ours in the EU...we can be open and transparent about it Unionists have to keep be quiet about it, but that's the way it is. That's where Arlene has led you.

Sinzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Your future is tied with ours in the EU...we can be open and transparent about it Unionists have to keep be quiet about it, but that's the way it is. That's where Arlene has led you.

I think we would be more than happy to leave Arlene and her friends on the other side of the border for now and for always..

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

What do they mean by nationwide. There is an internationally recognised national border at Newry. Which nation do they think need to discuss it?

The Irish nation is 32 county phenomenon. Even when you had 30,000 heavily armed professional soldiers where the British border was there was one 32 county nation.



You'll never ever bring that to an end.

Sinzo

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Irish nation is 32 county phenomenon. Even when you had 30,000 heavily armed professional soldiers where the British border was there was one 32 county nation.



You'll never ever bring that to an end.

Hopefully it will eventually be all forgotten. Just because a former UK prime minister says it is one nation doesn't necessarily make it so.

There are currently 2 irelands and hopefully that's the way it will stay..

Junkyard Tom

Sinzo wrote: »

Hopefully it will eventually be all forgotten.

You can't erase centuries of history much as some extremist Unionists might like to.

There are currently 2 irelands and hopefully that's the way it will stay..

There most definitely is not 'two Irelands'. If you want permanent division of the nation then please stop appropriating our flag, our anthem, and our history, and go make up a new one to get behind.

RobMc59

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The Irish nation is 32 county phenomenon. Even when you had 30,000 heavily armed professional soldiers where the British border was there was one 32 county nation.



You'll never ever bring that to an end.

Tom,I thought you weren't going to post that quote again as it was made when Ireland was part of the UK .

Sinzo

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You can't erase centuries of history much as some extremist Unionists might like to.



There most definitely is not 'two Irelands'. If you want permanent division of the nation then please stop appropriating our flag, our anthem, and our history, and go make up a new one to get behind.

Well ... there are currently two internationally recognised Irelands.

The national anthem of the Republic is exactly that... the national anthem of the Republic..

The tricolour is the flag of the Republic...

Long may it continue. The unionists have no nose in our business and they never will... we sincerely hope...

Junkyard Tom

Sinzo wrote: »

Well ... there are currently two internationally recognised Irelands.

The part of Ireland currently under UK jurisdiction is not a country - the British don't even refer to it as a country.

The national anthem of the Republic is exactly that... the national anthem of the Republic..The tricolour is the flag of the Republic...

Both predate partition of Ireland and were designed with respect to all of Ireland governed by the Irish people, you have no right to claim 26 county exclusivity of them. If you want a permanently partitioned nation then come up with a vision for it.

The unionists have no nose in our business and they never will... we sincerely hope...

Unionists are welcome to be part of the Irish nation too and many of them consider themselves Irish.

Junkyard Tom

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,I thought you weren't going to post that quote again as it was made when Ireland was part of the UK .

Ireland was a colony then, British rule never had the consent of the Irish people.

Sinzo

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The part of Ireland currently under UK jurisdiction is not a country - the British don't even refer to it as a country.



Both predate partition of Ireland and were designed with respect to all of Ireland governed by the Irish people, you have no right to claim 26 county exclusivity of them. If you want a permanently partitioned nation then come up with a vision for it.



Unionists are welcome to be part of the Irish nation too and many of them consider themselves Irish.

The British refer to it as the United kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The anthem and flag predate the Republic but obviously they were never adopted until after the establishment of the Republic.

Unionists being part of a notional 32 county nation doesn't make sense unless you want us to rejoin the UK...

FrancieBrady

Sinzo wrote: »

I think we would be more than happy to leave Arlene and her friends on the other side of the border for now and for always..

I love the way you valiantly pretend you are talking for a majority, with the 'we' stuff.

Sinzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I love the way you valiantly pretend you are talking for a majority, with the 'we' stuff.

Well there is more than one other person who shares my opinion so therefore that is how I choose to phrase it.

I believe that once we see how much it will cost logical pragmatism will replace rose tinted idealism

FrancieBrady

Sinzo wrote: »

Well there is more than one other person who shares my opinion so therefore that is how I choose to phrase it.

I believe that once we see how much it will cost logical pragmatism will replace rose tinted idealism

100 years ago there was a sizable 'we' who thought of their pockets only and nobody else but they lost. I think they would even have to admit we have built a better place.

Sinzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

100 years ago there was a sizable 'we' who thought of their pockets only and nobody else but they lost. I think they would even have to admit we have built a better place.

Just over 100 years ago there was little support for Padraig Pearce and the Rising. Most people were quite happy to remain part of the UK.

It was only as a result of the executions that support increased for independence..

FrancieBrady

Sinzo wrote: »

Just over 100 years ago there was little support for Padraig Pearce and the Rising. Most people were quite happy to remain part of the UK.

It was only as a result of the executions that support increased for independence..

That's a myth, there was little support in the media of the time. Plenty of support among ordinary people that is why it happened despite the begrudgers and the selfish and it worked out, this is a better place today for it.

Sinzo

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's a myth, there was little support in the media of the time. Plenty of support among ordinary people that is why it happened despite the begrudgers and the selfish and it worked out, this is a better place today for it.

Well I guess it depends on which media you choose to believe. I thought it was recognised to be the case in Irish history books.

Ireland became a better place after it joined the EU and because of multinational investment. Not to say we didn't make strides on our own and using our own intellectual capital but we were massively helped along the way. It was also aided at various times by mass emigration....

Brendan Bendar

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That's a myth, there was little support in the media of the time. Plenty of support among ordinary people that is why it happened despite the begrudgers and the selfish and it worked out, this is a better place today for it.

Is Brian re-instated yet I wonder.

FrancieBrady

Sinzo wrote: »

Well I guess it depends on which media you choose to believe. I thought it was recognised to be the case in Irish history books.

Ireland became a better place after it joined the EU and because of multinational investment. Not to say we didn't make strides on our own and using our own intellectual capital but we were massively helped along the way. It was also aided at various times by mass emigration....

My fathers generation would mostly disagree, it was better immediately. The hardship was worth it and the sacrifices. They always are when you are building something that is worth it.
Yes the EC-EEC-EU helped build it some more but then the EC-EEC-EU helped everywhere even the place that is leaving in a huff.
Maybe their coming hardships and sarcrifices will be worth it too, not looking like it as they will probably have to downsize to survive.

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

Tom,I thought you weren't going to post that quote again as it was made when Ireland was part of the UK .

Well, how about this quote from Henry Grattan in 1782 (prior to the Act of Union) when Henry VII was King of Ireland.

"I found Ireland on her knees," Grattan exclaimed, "I watched over her with a paternal solicitude; I have traced her progress from injuries to arms, and from arms to liberty. Spirit of Swift, spirit of Molyneux, your genius has prevailed! Ireland is now a nation!" After a month of negotiation the claims of Ireland were conceded. The gratitude of his countrymen to Grattan was shown by a parliamentary grant of £100,000, which had to be reduced by half before he would accept it.


Grattan then asked for the British House of Commons to reconfirm the British Government's decision, and on 22 January 1783, the final Act was passed by parliament in London, including the text:

Be it enacted that the right claimed by the people of Ireland to be bound only by laws enacted by his Majesty and the Parliament of that kingdom*, in all cases whatever shall be, and is hereby declared to be established and ascertained for ever, and shall at no time be questioned or questionable.

*that 'Kingdom' refers to the Kingdom of Ireland and the Parliament refers to the Irish House of Commons commonly known then as Grattan's Parliament. By the way, there was an Irish House of Commons in existence from 1297 until 1800.

jm08

Sinzo wrote: »

Just over 100 years ago there was little support for Padraig Pearce and the Rising. Most people were quite happy to remain part of the UK.

It was only as a result of the executions that support increased for independence..

It was a bit more than that. The slaughter in WWI made returning soldiers think that maybe having nothing to do with the British Empire might be for the best. An Independent Republic became very attractive with the threat of conscription in 1918 and that is the major reason why people voted for Sinn Fein and a Republic.


The slaughter in WWI had the opposite effect on Northern Protestants who felt their sacrifice in WWI tied them even more tightly to the Empire.