How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

What do they mean by nationwide. There is an internationally recognised national border at Newry. Which nation do they think need to discuss it?

Jesus, have you regressed that much? I thought you would have licked a bit of civility with your constant musings on Boards.

How come Unionists are always at pains to differentiate themselves. I mean, you do know you "won" right? We have a border.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm referring to events in Dublin in 1916,not the brave Irish soldiers who fought against Germany.

And those brave soldiers that stormed Croke Park that you're fond of?

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

The Irish soldiers weren't fighting for us,they were us.Ireland was regarded as the 'strong right arm' of the UK back in the day.Which made the betrayal even harder to take.

Irish betrayal?

Where did you learn your Irish history?

Yeah_Right

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No one can answer your bullshít question. You see, I have no personal control over how my taxes get spread around society. I don't think you do either.

Personalising the financing makes no sense. It's not how it will be paid for. I said this before and gave a thorough response and you ran away again for a few weeks.

Reunification will cost what it costs. We will be backed to the hilt by the EU to make it successful. The cost of it will be a blip in the national debt over a 50-100 years. It really isn't that difficult to accept that unless you plainly see societal improvement as a zero-sum transactional game with a cost for everything and a value for nothing.

Didn't mean to upset you so much with my "bull**** question". Sorry about that. I must have missed your "thorough response" when I asked my "bull**** question" previously. Very sorry about that. I do try to read through any thread before I post on it but I must have missed it. Could you maybe post a link to your "thorough response" so I can read it now?

I do realise how tax works and that you and I have no control over how its spent. Believe me I know. I pay enough of it as it is. My question was simply, how much more out of your income would you be willing to give to the state in order to see your dream of UI become a reality? It's ok to admit you don't want to pay a cent.

Also I didn't run away for weeks. I browse Boards most days at some point. I just don't get paid per post. Unlike some.

jh79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

The 'Irish nation' disregards current UK jurisdiction in Ireland. As far as the GFA is concerned the all-Ireland Irish nation seeks to end British jurisdiction, Unionists and those with a pro-partition stance need to reconcile themselves with that.

Those who oppose unification in the south need to come up with a vision for a permanently divided nation which will be aligning themselves with Unionists - it would be quite hilarious to see the utter collection off oddballs and misfits that would emerge from the undergrowth.

The Irish nation refers to the Republic and its will to unite the territory of Ireland ie the island.

Why is a vision needed, the island is already partitioned and nothing happens unless a good majority of NI say otherwise which might never happen. There is no timeline it can potentially stay that way forever.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You don't understand nationhood. Irish nationhood has little to do with jurisdiction. The French, Belgians, and Dutch didn't suddenly become German because they lost sovereignty in 1939.

Bar literal extermination there's not a damn thing you can do about Irish nationhood - it's just shows the perverse colonial nature of Unionism that it attempts to deny people of their identity.

The sooner we bring this failed farce of a construct called 'Northern Ireland' to an end the better for all of us.

You regularly put up nonsense you can’t defend. Just because some Irish people live in ni it doesn’t mean ni is part of the Irish nation. Otherwise Liverpool would be part of the Irish nation

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

The Irish nation refers to the Republic

It most definitely does not. Read it again.

downcow wrote: »

You regularly put up nonsense you can’t defend. Just because some Irish people live in ni it doesn’t mean ni is part of the Irish nation. Otherwise Liverpool would be part of the Irish nation

NI is a jurisdiction, it can end overnight. The Irish nation refers to Irish people who live all over Ireland and aren't going anywhere.

You seem to live in a weird alternate unionist universe DC. This is Ireland you're living in, surrounded by Irish people. You'd think you guys would be used to that after being here for a few centuries now.

jh79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

It most definitely does not. Read it again.



NI is a jurisdiction, it can end overnight. The Irish nation refers to Irish people who live all over Ireland and aren't going anywhere.

You seem to live in a weird alternate unionist universe DC. This is Ireland you're living in, surrounded by Irish people. You'd think you guys would be used to that after being here for a few centuries now.

But the important point here is that they decide if it becomes part of the Republic and no one else. And if they don't want it to then you're gonna have to live with that.

There is no need for anybody in the Republic to offer alternatives to the current reality of the Island of Ireland consisting of two countries.

NI can become viable with investment from the UK and peace because of the GFA.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

But the important point here is that they decide..

I don't deny that and yes the onus on on Unionists to make everyone in the north happy to live there as equals which means the likes of DC being nice to those of a nationalist/republican persuasion and keeping the English paying for it.

I think the former is beyond unionists, and goodness knows how long the English will tolerate sending their money to Ireland (as they'd see it) especially with the Brexit freight train coming down the tracks.

One thing is certain, British jurisdiction in the north is in terminal decline.

jh79

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I don't deny that and yes the onus on on Unionists to make everyone in the north happy to live there as equals which means the likes of DC being nice to those of a nationalist/republican persuasion and keeping the English paying for it.

I think the former is beyond unionists, and goodness knows how long the English will tolerate sending their money to Ireland (as they'd see it) especially with the Brexit freight train coming down the tracks.

One thing is certain, British jurisdiction in the north is in terminal decline.

It's a drop in the ocean for the English. They have a GDP in the trillions , the subvention is less than 10bn maybe 5bn.

BonnieSituation

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Didn't mean to upset you so much with my "bull**** question". Sorry about that. I must have missed your "thorough response" when I asked my "bull**** question" previously. Very sorry about that. I do try to read through any thread before I post on it but I must have missed it. Could you maybe post a link to your "thorough response" so I can read it now?

I do realise how tax works and that you and I have no control over how its spent. Believe me I know. I pay enough of it as it is. My question was simply, how much more out of your income would you be willing to give to the state in order to see your dream of UI become a reality? It's ok to admit you don't want to pay a cent.

Also I didn't run away for weeks. I browse Boards most days at some point. I just don't get paid per post. Unlike some.

Oooh. Getting shirty today aren't we.

You say you know how tax works and yet ask me how much I am "personally willing to pay"?

So say I say, 5 grand a year right? Is that enough? I dunno. Maybe only €500 would do? I dunno. Hmmmm... how would we ever work this out?

So is this spread amongst general taxation or would you expect a line on your payslip that says "United Ireland cash"?

Such a disingenuous level of discussion.

You'd think as "New Ulster" man yourself you'd have a bit more affinity to the place. That you don't get why Irish nationalists would approach reunification in a more wholesome way rather than in a solely transactional approach, really is not something we can help you with at this stage.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

The Irish nation refers to the Republic and its will to unite the territory of Ireland ie the island.

Why is a vision needed, the island is already partitioned and nothing happens unless a good majority of NI say otherwise which might never happen. There is no timeline it can potentially stay that way forever.

A good majority? Is that like a simple majority?

Yes the status quo remains as long as the people of Ireland decide it to be the case,. It could indeed be forever.

This does not remove the right to have an aspiration to remove British jurisdiction once and for all.

Junkyard Tom

jh79 wrote: »

It's a drop in the ocean for the English. They have a GDP in the trillions , the subvention is less than 10bn maybe 5bn.

'£100,000,000 a week for the NHS: get rid of NI' would look good on the side of a bus.

BonnieSituation

jh79 wrote: »

NI can become viable with investment from the UK and peace because of the GFA.

So what have they been waiting on?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

It's a drop in the ocean for the English. They have a GDP in the trillions , the subvention is less than 10bn maybe 5bn.

:D Yes sure, nobody in the UK complains of lack of money to do stuff.

jh79

BonnieSituation wrote: »

A good majority? Is that like a simple majority?

Yes the status quo remains as long as the people of Ireland decide it to be the case,. It could indeed be forever.

This does not remove the right to have an aspiration to remove British jurisdiction once and for all.

No, it remains as long as the people of NI wish it. The republic is a secondary player in this.

A simple majority is all that is required but the vote only goes ahead if it is likely to pass which means a good majority will be required in reality.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

downcow wrote: »

I was amused again last night. I was talking to a couple of South American’s stranded here due to lockdown. Chatting about their future they said ‘like most South Americans’ they would love to move to the UK as that as seen as no1 country to emigrate to, but it is too difficult to get into so they will probably end up in Canada.
Interesting that posters on here think ni people are going to rush to exit the country that the rest of the world want to reside in - and I have heard same story recently from Africans re wanting to live in uk but will settle for USA

I've very rarely encountered anyone in Colombia who hopes to move to the UK.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

No, it remains as long as the people of NI wish it. The republic is a secondary player in this.

A simple majority is all that is required but the vote only goes ahead if it is likely to pass which means a good majority will be required in reality.

If 'in the opinion of a SoS it is likely to pass'.

jh79

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So what have they been waiting on?

On i dunno maybe a sectarian terrorist org to surrender and their political wing to get comfortable on their salaries and pensions?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D Yes sure, nobody in the UK complains of lack of money to do stuff.

Do you really need an explanation on how the true cost of something is relative to overall wealth?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Do you really need an explanation on how the true cost of something is relative to overall wealth?

Could you do that for a UI?

Cool.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

If 'in the opinion of a SoS it is likely to pass'.

Which means in practical terms opinion polls showing a majority at least above the margin of error.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Could you do that for a UI?

Cool.

Our GDP is 330 bn for 4 million.

NI is in the 30's about 10 to 15% of that for 2 million. It should be about half of the republics

That's a huge amount of inward investment to get NI at an appropriate level.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Which means in practical terms opinion polls showing a majority at least above the margin of error.

Or a SoS could do it for political expediency and say, 'I think it willl pass'.

Which is the likely outcome IMO.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Our GDP is 330 bn for 4 million.

NI is in the 30's about 10 to 15% of that for 2 million. It should be about half of the republics

That's a huge amount of inward investment to get NI at an appropriate level.

They're pulling money out of NI.

Come back to the real world JH.

BloodyBill

This thread has gone where it aas always bound to go, nowhere. There is no unification on the horizon. There might never be. Its not in the wider public consciousness no matter how much Sinn Fein want it to be.

BonnieSituation

BloodyBill wrote: »

This thread has gone where it aas always bound to go, nowhere. There is no unification on the horizon. There might never be. Its not in the wider public consciousness no matter how much Sinn Fein want it to be.

Great stuff.

Pack up everyone.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Or a SoS could do it for political expediency and say, 'I think it willl pass'.

Which is the likely outcome IMO.

Based on tarot cards or tea leaves ! A feeling in their waters!

Jaysus Francie, Red C polls and the like will decide wether it goes ahead.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They're pulling money out of NI.

Come back to the real world JH.

And? That only increases what we have to put in.

You're fond of the term belligerent unionism. Maybe you're underestimating how belligerent they are?

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

Based on tarot cards or tea leaves ! A feeling in their waters!

Jaysus Francie, Red C polls and the like will decide wether it goes ahead.

The Scottish Ref went ahead when it was politically expedient for Westminster to allow it.
It will be same here, polls will have little to do with it.