How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

gormdubhgorm

BonnieSituation wrote: »

I dunno. GDG is giving him a run for his money above with today's nonsense.

I believe you are just unwilling to see my point.
Ireland only has echoes of Irishness at best these days. People who shout the loudest about being republican and Irish. Second generation Irish, or Irish people who have lost thier language/culture (or have appropriated British culture) shout the loudest about a UI because they hope the loudest 'Irish' echo drowns out thier obvious contradictions.
For such people "being Irish" is calling for a UI and/or being anti Brit and so on.

When in reality the cultural ties that bind Britain and Ireland are there for all to see, when the basics of politics are removed.
It is a bit schizophrenic, a dual relationship of sorts many Irish Republicans have with Britain - deep down. I know it and you know it. But you won't admit it. Or are afraid to.

RobMc59

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Blinkers on if ever I saw it. The whole raison d'être of the GFA was to bring about peace on this small island!

I was asked why I thought Ireland relinquished claims to NI which I answered.
Britain signed up for their own reasons which included cessation of terrorism by the IRA

gormdubhgorm

RobMc59 wrote: »

I was asked why I thought Ireland relinquished claims to NI which I answered.
Britain signed up for their own reasons which included cessation of terrorism by the IRA

Fair enough.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with anyone being forced to move regardless of which community they are from.

So why did you suggest that people from the Falls should just move?!

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So why did you suggest that people from the Falls should just move?!

If they decided they wanted to move that would be their decision-whats wrong with that?

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

The possibility of a UI in the future.

The guarantee of a border poll that would allow the people of Ireland to decide whether Ireland should be united. Nationalists have every right to campaign for a border poll if they want to.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

If they decided they wanted to move that would be their decision-whats wrong with that?

Let's not be coy, Rob. If they wanted to move, they would.

You stated that instead of aspiring towards unification, they could just move. I put the opposite to you, that Downcow could just move to Britain rather, and you agreed that it was a horrible and obnoxious sentiment.

You seem to be of the impression that moving a few miles south on the same island will somehow solve anything. I moved to Dublin and then Meath, I haven't suddenly stopped aspiring towards unification. The average Falls Road resident is a fair bit more staunchly Republican than I am, so what does your, 'don't like it, then move' attitude actually help?

You're taking the other side of the, 'Brits Out' coin while trying to convince yourself that you're somehow on the moral high ground. You're not.

Whatever the future of this island, telling people that if they don't like it they should just leave their home for generations is never an appropriate solution, regardless of which background they come from.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Let's not be coy, Rob. If they wanted to move, they would.

You stated that instead of aspiring towards unification, they could just move. I put the opposite to you, that Downcow could just move to Britain rather, and you agreed that it was a horrible and obnoxious sentiment.

You seem to be of the impression that moving a few miles south on the same island will somehow solve anything. I moved to Dublin and then Meath, I haven't suddenly stopped aspiring towards unification. The average Falls Road resident is a fair bit more staunchly Republican than I am, so what does your, 'don't like it, then move' attitude actually help?

You're taking the other side of the, 'Brits Out' coin while trying to convince yourself that you're somehow on the moral high ground. You're not.

Whatever the future of this island, telling people that if they don't like it they should just leave their home for generations is never an appropriate solution, regardless of which background they come from.

That`s a lie,I never said `don`t like it,then move` and regarding people trying to take the high ground,it`s not me whose whipping themselves into a self righteous`how daarre you!` frenzy over imaginary slights.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

They would`nt need to vote to join Ireland they could just move there could`nt they?

I'll remind you of what you said, Rob. The intention was very clear.

BloodyBill

Bambi wrote: »

It worth remembering that Nationalists were also a minority back in the the 70s and they still managed to make **** of the place...

Could have a big population swap and Antrim and Down stay in the UK ..and ....Tipperary

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'll remind you of what you said, Rob. The intention was very clear.

The post you highlighted didn't say anything remotely like 'if you don't like it,move'' neither did any of my posts.
If I've been wrong in the past I would apologise,are you big enough to admit you are mistaken?

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

The post you highlighted didn't say anything remotely like 'if you don't like it,move'' neither did any of my posts.
If I've been wrong in the past I would apologise,are you big enough to admit you are mistaken?

To quote my poat, 'You stated that instead of aspiring towards unification, they could just move. I put the opposite to you, that Downcow could just move to Britain rather, and you agreed that it was a horrible and obnoxious sentiment.'

I have admitted and apologised when mistaken in the past, but I think your intentions were right on with what I took it up as.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

To quote my poat, 'You stated that instead of aspiring towards unification, they could just move. I put the opposite to you, that Downcow could just move to Britain rather, and you agreed that it was a horrible and obnoxious sentiment.'

I have admitted and apologised when mistaken in the past, but I think your intentions were right on with what I took it up as.

So you have a feeling in your water my intentions meant something but you can't highlight what exactly as I never said anything like what you 'think'I meant.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

The post you highlighted didn't say anything remotely like 'if you don't like it,move'' neither did any of my posts.
If I've been wrong in the past I would apologise,are you big enough to admit you are mistaken?

But Rob, cmon. Look at it again.

Now tell us what you meant by that then?

Given that we know you don't believe reunification is a valid aspiration for Nationalists to have and that you condone the killing of Irishmen, women and children by the British State security forces, how else would we have interpreted it?

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

But Rob, cmon. Look at it again.

Now tell us what you meant by that then?

Given that we know you don't believe reunification is a valid aspiration for Nationalists to have and that you condone the killing of Irishmen, women and children by the British State security forces, how else would we have interpreted it?

If he's not up to admitting his mistake,fine.Quite how you feel it's any of your business escapes me.

jm08

BloodyBill wrote: »

Could have a big population swap and Antrim and Down stay in the UK ..and ....Tipperary

Tipperary? In the 1st Count the Sinn Fein Candidate came 2nd after Michael Lowry - even getting more votes than Mattie McGrath. No Fine Gael TD in Tipperary with Fianna Fail just about scraping in for the last seat.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

So you have a feeling in your water my intentions meant something but you can't highlight what exactly as I never said anything like what you 'think'I meant.

Your reading comprehension drops drastically with your attempts to be pithy, Rob.

Not a feeling in my water, not something I can't highlight. Exactly what I suspect your intentions behind the post are explained in the post you quoted.

If you think I'm misinterpreting you, then please do clarify exactly what you did mean, that would contextually make sense with regards to the Republican population of the Falls Rd's aspirations towards unification.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

If he's not up to admitting his mistake,fine.Quite how you feel it's any of your business escapes me.

Now we can't discuss posts on a discussion forum? Well I Never!

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Your reading comprehension drops drastically with your attempts to be pithy, Rob.

Not a feeling in my water, not something I can't highlight. Exactly what I suspect your intentions behind the post are explained in the post you quoted.

If you think I'm misinterpreting you, then please do clarify exactly what you did mean, that would contextually make sense with regards to the Republican population of the Falls Rd's aspirations towards unification.

There you go again,"what I suspect"
You can't provide anything other than assumptions "I think"or "I suspect "
Trying to squirm out of your mistake by attempting to put the onus on me to get you out of the predicament...unbelievable.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

There you go again,"what I suspect"
You can't provide anything other than assumptions "I think"or "I suspect "
Trying to squirm out of your mistake by attempting to put the onus on me to get you out of the predicament...unbelievable.

It's really simple, Rob....if I'm mistaken, please clarify what you meant by your post. If you won't clarify, then people will make up their own mind on what it appears you meant.

RobMc59

Fionn1952 wrote: »

It's really simple, Rob....if I'm mistaken, please clarify what you meant by your post. If you won't clarify, then people will make up their own mind on what it appears you meant.

Fionn,if I have wrongly accused someone of saying something and after checking was wrong I have apologised.I would expect that from anyone,you've probably gathered by now after double checking my posts I didn't say or imply anything remotely like you accused me of.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

Fionn,if I have wrongly accused someone of saying something and after checking was wrong I have apologised.I would expect that from anyone,you've probably gathered by now after double checking my posts I didn't say or imply anything remotely like you accused me of.

I'll ask one last time, can you clarify what you meant when you said the residents of the Falls could just move if they wanted to live in Ireland then, Rob?

I won't bother asking again, if I'm mistaken on your intentions I'll happily apologise, if you refuse to clarify, I'd consider it quite telling and leave the topic at that.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

I'll ask one last time, can you clarify what you meant when you said the residents of the Falls could just move if they wanted to live in Ireland then, Rob?

I won't bother asking again, if I'm mistaken on your intentions I'll happily apologise, if you refuse to clarify, I'd consider it quite telling and leave the topic at that.

This reminds me of the time downcow said that he 'couldn't guarantee to remain peaceful if there was a vote for a UI', apparently that didn't mean he wasn't going to be peaceful.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

It has been decided, Downcow. The GFA says it's all or nothing. NI won't be sliced up and repartitioned again to create another false majority for Unionists.

So until the majority decides otherwise, all of NI will remain part of the UK, if and when that should come to pass, I don't think there would be anything stopping you from campaigning to have the road you live on made part of the UK again, though I can't see you having much luck.

Surely you can see that even from an administrative perspective, the idea of deciding on a street by street basis is absurd?

Same old Republican tactic of completely avoiding the question. Let me remind you what the question was and then you can reflect on whether your answer has anything to do with the question.
So how would you decide the geographical area that should be allowed self determination and what would determine an area that should not be allowed to self determination?

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This reminds me of the time downcow said that he 'couldn't guarantee to remain peaceful if there was a vote for a UI', apparently that didn't mean he wasn't going to be peaceful.

I've given up with Fionn,first time in two years I have had to press the ignore button.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Same old Republican tactic of completely avoiding the question. Let me remind you what the question was and then you can reflect on whether your answer has anything to do with the question.
So how would you decide the geographical area that should be allowed self determination and what would determine an area that should not be allowed to self determination?

And you got an answer - the geographical area is already determined.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

WHy do you keep trying to rewrite the Agreement you said you support?

The geographical area referred to in that is 'the island of Ireland'.

It is for the people of the island of Ireland to decide it's fate.

If you want to have a referendum on the Shankill getting 'self determination' I suggest you get your politicians to begin lobbying for that.

Another complete avoidance of the question. As well as some spinning of the facts. the GFA give self-determination to Northern Ireland.
But here was the question for you to have another go.
So how would you decide the geographical area that should be allowed self determination and what would determine an area that should not be allowed to self determination?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

This reminds me of the time downcow said that he 'couldn't guarantee to remain peaceful if there was a vote for a UI', apparently that didn't mean he wasn't going to be peaceful.

Francie that is pure nonsense you are writing.
If I said that I couldn't guarantee that I will break the speed limit tonight, it absolutely does not mean that I will break the speed limit tonight.

Just nonsense

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And you got an answer - the geographical area is already determined.

Francie are you really struggling with the question. The question is not specific to Northern Ireland and what has been determined.
The question is a general question about self-determination. I guess my point is that these things are not as simple as you would like to make them.
But I will repeat the question one last time in the hope that you might have a go at answering it in general terms rather than trying to make political points.

So how would you decide the geographical area that should be allowed self determination and how would determine an area that should not be allowed to self determination?

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

So how would you decide the geographical area that should be allowed self determination and how would determine an area that should not be allowed to self determination?

If it is economically viable, if it is practical, if it is workable. With Britain being out of the EU now it has made the idea of Unionist micro-cantons utterly ridiculous.

Don't worry DC in a United Ireland nobody is going to stop you from painting your kerbs, wearing union flag underpants, or marching around every summer.