How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Oh dear!
Only on republicans could refuse to even say the name of the country they were referring (unless of course you were including the behaviour of those Donegal yahoos)

The public holiday is for the 12th. I have never ever seen any of the behaviour you are talking anoint on the 12th

You know you get the 17th March off as well as a public holiday right?

Or do you go to work or whatever it is you can do to defy it. Mother of God, Unionism is such a pathetically insecure political ideal really.

I asked you this before, but you do know that you have the "Status quo" right,? There is no UI. You act like the ones agitating for Partition still, 100 years after it happened. It must be exhausting.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Well we are not part of Great Britain anyhow, but that's a little pedantic of me, I am sure you mean the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I don't actually think there would be a sustained terrorist campaign by Unionists. Certainly there is the potential for sporadic stuff, and there is the potential of a sustained campaign, but unlikely I think.
Much more of a worry for you should be dealing with what those of us who love Northern Ireland have dealt with for the past 50 years i.e. a significant minority who are fairly determined to ensure state does not work, and who have aspirations to not belong to it.
This is the real conundrum for those living in the Republic of Ireland. You will suddenly have 1 million Unionists who do not feel part of it and want to disassociate with it, who will not work for its benefit and will be agitating for change and for more and more autonomy. They will never be satisfied. It will be like feeding the crocodiles.
They will be a minority feeling discriminated against in the land that they have lived in and called home for 400 years. You will be under serious pressure to transform all about Irish culture and identity so as these 1 million minority feel included - and even then, they will still not feel included
This is just the reality

You could always move to England I guess and into the bosom of all those English people you share so much kulchare with.

That's the sort of thing that Rob advocates.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

if you are correct, that is wonderful news. I suspect though you are out of step with the majority of the Bobby story funeral types. I doubt very much if they inherently support the right of NI to self determine

The majority of the Bobby Storey funeral types signed up to the GFA, and support the right for the people of NI to self determine.

Once more, you mistake their desire for the people to choose a way you don't wish them to with a problem with self determination.

As you're well aware, SFs stance is to achieve unification via the mechanisms set out via the GFA.

So as you pressed me so firmly for a precise answer to your earlier question, would you care to answer the question I actually asked? On this thread, you said a majority of Republicans do not support the North's right to self determination. Do you have any examples of this?

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

The majority of the Bobby Storey funeral types signed up to the GFA, and support the right for the people of NI to self determine.

Once more, you mistake their desire for the people to choose a way you don't wish them to with a problem with self determination.

As you're well aware, SFs stance is to achieve unification via the mechanisms set out via the GFA.

So as you pressed me so firmly for a precise answer to your earlier question, would you care to answer the question I actually asked? On this thread, you said a majority of Republicans do not support the North's right to self determination. Do you have any examples of this?

As I said, if you are correct then that is a wonderful development.
3000+ people died here because most republicans did not accept self-determination for the people of NI.
I genuinely mean this, that if republicans have genuinely done that U turn due to GFA then Trimble was even more impressive that I thought.

It’s great news which I don’t think most unionists believe. It’s hard to take in that, after a 40 year murderous campaign, which drove our communities apart to live and socialise separately, that getting the serial killers released had such an amazing affect.

It would do wonders to hear a republican leader say ‘I believe in self-determination for the people of Northern Ireland’
That would be transformative
But I am really pleased to hear that that is your stance
Any comment from junkyard, Francie, Bonnie, etc.

Good on you fion. You are a peacemaker

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wow. That is actually one of the most horrible things ever posted in this thread.
Those children died because people could not march down a road.

Remember that when you are making a virtue out of this year's restraint.

You can try the old emotional ‘I am so shocked stance’ to try and duck the question again. But I think we can all see what you are at.

So what had the disgusting vile death of the Quinn’s to do with the twelft?

Hamsterchops

So the way I see it is that after 100 years of seperation between North & South, the GFA has put in train a ratchet system whereby NI is on a one way ticket out of the United kingdim & away from Britain ... while slowly being absorbed economically, culturally & politically into the ROI

...like slowing down a big old ship and gradually changing her direction (as demanded by nearly half the passengers) so that she goes off course just enough to seperate her from her sister ship, so that she can sail a new course alongside another sibling thats been on a different course since the 1920s.......

But will she go off course enough for total seperation from GB?

chuff chuff

downcow

Hamsterchops wrote: »

So the way I see it is that after 100 years of seperation between North & South, the GFA has put in train a one way ratchet system whereby NI is on a one way ticket out of the United kingdim & away from Britain ... while slowly being absorbed economically, culturally & politically into the ROI

...like slowing down a big old ship and gradually changing her direction (as demanded by nearly half the passengers) so that she goes off course just enough to seperate her from her sister ship so that she can sail a new course alongside another sibling thats been on a different course since the 1920s.......

But will she go off course enough for total seperation from GB?

chuff chuff

A great analogy, but can I be cheeky enough to add to it.

Maybe they are not simply passengers that are on the boat but rather oarsmen, who have never really agreed to go in same direction. The political leaders are fighting over the rudder. The unionist leaders have managed to just about control the rudder, but the Republican leaders are trying hard to pull in the other direction.
Some believe the majority Unionist oarsmen will soon be majority Republican oarsmen, but more importantly they think that Republicans will gain maximum control of the rudder. If that happens I guess we just start going in a circle the other direction.
The other big problem for the Republican leaders and some of the more extreme Unionist leaders, is that the oarsmen have been talking to each other over the last 40 years of rowing, and wondering why they cannot just reach an agreed direction and all row together. That of course can only be an agreed Northern Ireland, and the oarsmen can decide how much connection or support they want from the two mother ships. Some leaders, most Republicans oarsmen, and some extreme Unionists oarsmen may need to be chucked overboard

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

As I said, if you are correct then that is a wonderful development.
3000+ people died here because most republicans did not accept self-determination for the people of NI.
I genuinely mean this, that if republicans have genuinely done that U turn due to GFA then Trimble was even more impressive that I thought.

It’s great news which I don’t think most unionists believe. It’s hard to take in that, after a 40 year murderous campaign, which drove our communities apart to live and socialise separately, that getting the serial killers released had such an amazing affect.

It would do wonders to hear a republican leader say ‘I believe in self-determination for the people of Northern Ireland’
That would be transformative
But I am really pleased to hear that that is your stance
Any comment from junkyard, Francie, Bonnie, etc.

Good on you fion. You are a peacemaker

So over 20 years on since the GFA and you think it's all a big hoax and the Provos have just been on holidays to lure you into a false sense of security?

Your attempts to credit only David Trimble for the GFA are very transparent, Downcow. And yes, it was impressive. Possibly one of the most impressive treaties in modern history.

As is your attempt to reduce the 3000+ deaths during the Troubles as totally the fault of the Republican community, with no acknowledgement of the festering situation which led to the PIRA, the actions of British armed forces or Loyalist paramilitaries (often in tandem). No, 'side' sat down at the table with clean hands during the GFA negotiations, Downcow.

You've got the biggest, 'I believe in self determination for the people of NI' possible - support for the GFA and PIRA decommissioning. SF have repeatedly stated their support for the GFA, and endlessly stated that they would continue to work towards unification using exclusively peaceful, democratic means.

It's becoming quite clear that your idea of support for self-determination exclusively means support for NI remaining part of the UK. It is perfectly plausible for SF to support the idea of self-determination for the North while maintaining aspirations towards unification.

All of this aside, just to point you back on track - you stated that the majority of Republicans on this thread do not support the right to self-determination for the people of NI. For the third or fourth time, can you give examples on this thread of a few Republicans stating that they do not support the GFA? I can personally think of potentially one post across the thread that would imply leanings towards dissident Republicanism, but the vast majority? I don't think so.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So over 20 years on since the GFA and you think it's all a big hoax and the Provos have just been on holidays to lure you into a false sense of security?

Your attempts to credit only David Trimble for the GFA are very transparent, Downcow. And yes, it was impressive. Possibly one of the most impressive treaties in modern history.

As is your attempt to reduce the 3000+ deaths during the Troubles as totally the fault of the Republican community, with no acknowledgement of the festering situation which led to the PIRA, the actions of British armed forces or Loyalist paramilitaries (often in tandem). No, 'side' sat down at the table with clean hands during the GFA negotiations, Downcow.

You've got the biggest, 'I believe in self determination for the people of NI' possible - support for the GFA and PIRA decommissioning. SF have repeatedly stated their support for the GFA, and endlessly stated that they would continue to work towards unification using exclusively peaceful, democratic means.

It's becoming quite clear that your idea of support for self-determination exclusively means support for NI remaining part of the UK. It is perfectly plausible for SF to support the idea of self-determination for the North while maintaining aspirations towards unification.

All of this aside, just to point you back on track - you stated that the majority of Republicans on this thread do not support the right to self-determination for the people of NI. For the third or fourth time, can you give examples on this thread of a few Republicans stating that they do not support the GFA? I can personally think of potentially one post across the thread that would imply leanings towards dissident Republicanism, but the vast majority? I don't think so.

Good post, and I take on a certain degree of your observations about how I have a prejudiced view. Pity a few more on here, yourself included, might not have a similar self-examination.

To deal with your last point first. I did hold out an invitation several posts ago to a number of Republicans on here who seemed to have loads of time to post endless posts, but they have not taken up my invitation to confirm that they accept the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination. That should tell you all you need to know about evidence about where Republicans are. No doubt a few of them will come on now to rescue you with a waffle of words, but I will certainly to eat humble pie if they use the words I have stated.. So watch this space

Your comment about whether I think it is all just a big hoax and that IRA/Sinn Fein have not actually genuinely moved to a position of respecting the right of self-determination for Northern Ireland. Absolutely I think it is a big hoax. The turnaround is too remarkable for me to accept. They were trying to kill my community because we did believe in the right of self-determination for Northern Ireland, and now you're telling me that they now believe in it themselves. Pull the other one, it's got bells on!
And as for believing what they tell us. We have Gerry Adams continuing to state categorically that he was never in the IRA, we have Michelle O'Neill telling us that she broke no restrictions at the Story funeral, and we have Martin McGuinness telling us that he left the IRA in 1972 just after bloody Sunday. ...and that's just the last three leaders of republicanism in Northern Ireland. You are having a laugh think I should believe anything they tell us.

Maybe this is the point where you need to now take a wee look at your prejudiced view. We are dealing with a movement who will tell lies ad nauseam to suit their own agenda - they have zero integrity

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Wow. That is actually one of the most horrible things ever posted in this thread.
Those children died because people could not march down a road.

Remember that when you are making a virtue out of this year's restraint.

I see Francie has disappeared, when asked to justify why he said that the Quinn children were killed because of the twelfth.
I am sure Francie knows the facts of the situation, but because he has planted the seed in many southerners heads I think it is worth expanding a little.

This was an horrendous despicable act that turned almost everyone's stomach in Northern Ireland, and indeed across the world.
Three beautiful young children burned to their deaths by scumbags.

These three young children were reared as Protestants and lived in a predominantly, but not exclusively, Protestant estate in Ballymoney. They naturally went to their local Protestant school and the vast majority of their friends were also Protestant.
They had helped with the building of the bonfire in the lead up to the 11th night, and that very evening they had been at the bonfire. They were intending to go and enjoy the 12th the next day

Their mother was from a mixed marriage and their father was estranged. Their mum was living with a loyalist who was mixed up in drugs trade. There had been a simmering feud in the area around drugs control and their mums partner was involved - he also had a string of offences. Their mums brother had also fallen out with the assailants around drugs a week previously and they had threatened him.
The assailants were UVF scumbag drug dealers
Late on the 11th night early twelfth morning the house had a petrol bomb thrown into it. Their mum, her sibling and her loyalist partner escaped the house, and the three lovely boys were horrifically burned to death.

Now there is no question Francie knows the story. For him to raise it to score points against my community festival, the twelfth, is absolutely despicable. But sure that is nothing new. .... Don't let the truth get in the way of a chance to have a good boot at the prods

Hamsterchops

Forget a "United" Ireland as it's not very realistic in the short term, or the mid term or ever!

SHARED ISLAND

All colours, flags, and shades represented on a shared island .... that's the way to go.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Good post, and I take on a certain degree of your observations about how I have a prejudiced view. Pity a few more on here, yourself included, might not have a similar self-examination.

To deal with your last point first. I did hold out an invitation several posts ago to a number of Republicans on here who seemed to have loads of time to post endless posts, but they have not taken up my invitation to confirm that they accept the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination. That should tell you all you need to know about evidence about where Republicans are. No doubt a few of them will come on now to rescue you with a waffle of words, but I will certainly to eat humble pie if they use the words I have stated.. So watch this space

Your comment about whether I think it is all just a big hoax and that IRA/Sinn Fein have not actually genuinely moved to a position of respecting the right of self-determination for Northern Ireland. Absolutely I think it is a big hoax. The turnaround is too remarkable for me to accept. They were trying to kill my community because we did believe in the right of self-determination for Northern Ireland, and now you're telling me that they now believe in it themselves. Pull the other one, it's got bells on!
And as for believing what they tell us. We have Gerry Adams continuing to state categorically that he was never in the IRA, we have Michelle O'Neill telling us that she broke no restrictions at the Story funeral, and we have Martin McGuinness telling us that he left the IRA in 1972 just after bloody Sunday. ...and that's just the last three leaders of republicanism in Northern Ireland. You are having a laugh think I should believe anything they tell us.

Maybe this is the point where you need to now take a wee look at your prejudiced view. We are dealing with a movement who will tell lies ad nauseam to suit their own agenda - they have zero integrity

What prejudices of mine would you like me to examine, Downcow? Nothing I've said is particularly controversial.

Regarding inviting others to state that they support self determination, that's not how it works. You made the statement that most Republicans on here do not support self determination for the North. When you make a statement like that, the burden of proof rests with you. It is a total logical fallacy to insist that you're correct unless everyone comes on and specifically states otherwise. Surely you can see the ridiculousness of this? If I made a statement on a thread that you were a member of the UVF, and someone asked me for evidence, I couldn't just state, 'well Downcow hasn't said he's not in the UVF, until he does, I'll continue to claim that he is'.

Your community by in large didn't stand for self determination for NI any more than the Republican community did pre-GFA. Your community stood largely for continued British rule with a Unionist veto on any change to that status. Decades of, "never, never" and, "Ulster is British" made that very clear, as you well know. It takes a serious amount of revisionism to try and present the historical Unionist ethos as even accepting the legitimacy of non-violent aspirations towards unification. You'll recall Sunningdale was rejected by Unionism.

Your distrust for SF in general I understand. I wouldn't trust them too much myself. Their support for the GFA as a hoax though.....over 20 years on? That's moving from reasonable suspicion into major paranoia. What do you think the goal is? How much longer are they going to lure you into a false sense of security before they put the long game plan into action?!

As for, 'dealing with a movement who will tell lies ad nauseum...' I'm going to politely assume you're referring exclusively to SF here rather than making a broader statement about the entire Republican/Nationalist movement, lest it be taken as a direct insult towards my honesty and integrity as a person who aspires towards unification.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I see Francie has disappeared, when asked to justify why he said that the Quinn children were killed because of the twelfth.
I am sure Francie knows the facts of the situation, but because he has planted the seed in many southerners heads I think it is worth expanding a little.

I haven't disappeared...truth be known I am trying to decipher what questions you are asking amid the slanting and twisting.

The Quinn children died because people could not get to march down a road...is what I said by the way and I stand fully by that statement. It came at the end of a week of escalating tensions and intimidation brought on by the protests at Drumcree.

That is as much as I want to use them as victims and I am not going to get into a back and forth argument or try the case here. That is my opinion and you will not change it. We know yours, so let's leave the victims in peace.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Wait, isn't the devolved Northern administration a cross community shared administration?

So republicans are involved.

What you fail to remember was republicans and Nationalists were píssed off at unionist insistence on following Westminster's disastrous approach at the beginning.

It was the insistence to stick closely with Dublin at that stage has meant that the North is in such good shape right now. But yeah, republicans bad etc.

I think the suggestion about your comments is that it's a bit rich for someone in England to be preaching to anyone here about Covid nevermind your goodself who doesn't exactly get or understand "Ireland".

---

You never did answer my question as to why Irish people should move from their homes say on the Falls to South of the border for no other reason than you don't think their aspiration for a UI is a legitimate one?

As you say,republicans are part of the devolved government but whilst Unionists are making it work,in stark contrast are the likes of Michelle O'Neil who doesn't contribute anything constructive and who is under orders from headquarters to make things as awkward as possible,constantly whinging or getting selfies with terrorists whilst ignoring social distancing rules.
Suggesting a British person can't pass comment about how well another part of the UK is doing in the fight against covid is pathetic.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

As you say,republicans are part of the devolved government but whilst Unionists are making it work,in stark contrast are the likes of Michelle O'Neil who doesn't contribute anything constructive and who is under orders from headquarters to make things as awkward as possible,constantly whinging or getting selfies with terrorists whilst ignoring social distancing rules.
Suggesting a British person can't pass comment about how well another part of the UK is doing in the fight against covid is pathetic.

The UK will most likely not make the Irish government's Green List Rob.

Diplomatically, I fully understand that FG/FF will find that a difficult thing to do. But health comes first. And in health standings the UK has done very very badly indeed.

Hamsterchops

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The UK will most likely not make the Irish government's Green List Rob.

Diplomatically, I fully understand that FG/FF will find that a difficult thing to do. But health comes first. And in health standings the UK has done very very badly indeed.

Britain (GB) will most likely not make the list ....

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The UK will most likely not make the Irish government's Green List Rob.

Diplomatically, I fully understand that FG/FF will find that a difficult thing to do. But health comes first. And in health standings the UK has done very very badly indeed.

Both governments try to get along which is the best we can hope for considering how both countries are inoxerably linked whether republicans like it or not.
SF and the discord they bring is an unfortunate necessity as they are democratically elected.Its just a pity they don't contribute positively in any way as their sole purpose,under orders from the shadowy terrorist junta is to cause anarchy.

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

Both governments try to get along which is the best we can hope for considering how both countries are inoxerably linked whether republicans like it or not.
SF and the discord they bring is an unfortunate necessity as they are democratically elected.Its just a pity they don't contribute positively in any way as their sole purpose,under orders from the shadowy terrorist junta is to cause anarchy.

Are you perchance ignoring the point?
'Great Britain' (Hamster is correct) is not considered a safe place because of how it has handled Covid by the Irish government. (The Irish Government doesn't include SF to my knowledge, so can you avoid deflecting to them)

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

As you say,republicans are part of the devolved government but whilst Unionists are making it work,in stark contrast are the likes of Michelle O'Neil who doesn't contribute anything constructive and who is under orders from headquarters to make things as awkward as possible,constantly whinging or getting selfies with terrorists whilst ignoring social distancing rules.
Suggesting a British person can't pass comment about how well another part of the UK is doing in the fight against covid is pathetic.

Yes Rob.

RobMc59

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you perchance ignoring the point?
'Great Britain' (Hamster is correct) is not considered a safe place because of how it has handled Covid by the Irish government. (The Irish Government doesn't include SF to my knowledge, so can you avoid deflecting to them)

My mistake,reference to SF is in regards to devolved government.I agree the mainland covid response has been very poor whilst Ireland has handled it well,as has NI.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

What prejudices of mine would you like me to examine, Downcow? Nothing I've said is particularly controversial.

Regarding inviting others to state that they support self determination, that's not how it works. You made the statement that most Republicans on here do not support self determination for the North. When you make a statement like that, the burden of proof rests with you. It is a total logical fallacy to insist that you're correct unless everyone comes on and specifically states otherwise. Surely you can see the ridiculousness of this? If I made a statement on a thread that you were a member of the UVF, and someone asked me for evidence, I couldn't just state, 'well Downcow hasn't said he's not in the UVF, until he does, I'll continue to claim that he is'.

Your community by in large didn't stand for self determination for NI any more than the Republican community did pre-GFA. Your community stood largely for continued British rule with a Unionist veto on any change to that status. Decades of, "never, never" and, "Ulster is British" made that very clear, as you well know. It takes a serious amount of revisionism to try and present the historical Unionist ethos as even accepting the legitimacy of non-violent aspirations towards unification. You'll recall Sunningdale was rejected by Unionism.

Your distrust for SF in general I understand. I wouldn't trust them too much myself. Their support for the GFA as a hoax though.....over 20 years on? That's moving from reasonable suspicion into major paranoia. What do you think the goal is? How much longer are they going to lure you into a false sense of security before they put the long game plan into action?!

As for, 'dealing with a movement who will tell lies ad nauseum...' I'm going to politely assume you're referring exclusively to SF here rather than making a broader statement about the entire Republican/Nationalist movement, lest it be taken as a direct insult towards my honesty and integrity as a person who aspires towards unification.

First point last again. Absolutely no suggestion you do not have integrity. Apologies if that was implied.

You say I want everyone to come on and say they support ni self determination. Not at all. One would be good.
I do think you don’t understand republicans. There is no way they accept self determination for NI.

.....and the vast majority of my community have wanted nothing more that self determination.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I haven't disappeared...truth be known I am trying to decipher what questions you are asking amid the slanting and twisting.

The Quinn children died because people could not get to march down a road...is what I said by the way and I stand fully by that statement. It came at the end of a week of escalating tensions and intimidation brought on by the protests at Drumcree.

That is as much as I want to use them as victims and I am not going to get into a back and forth argument or try the case here. That is my opinion and you will not change it. We know yours, so let's leave the victims in peace.

You are a laugh. It was you who tried to use their deaths to have a dig at my festival.
It was all about drugs and scumbags from both sides were involved. And 3 innocent kids had to die
I am happy now that everyone has heard the two sides to now leave it. But it would be much better if you admitted you were using their deaths when you knew the facts all along

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You are a laugh. It was you who tried to use their deaths to have a dog at my festival.
I am happy now that everyone has heard the two sides to now leave it

I didn't the 12th downcow. I very clearly attributed those deaths to tensions arising from people trying to get to march down a road.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I didn't the 12th downcow. I very clearly attributed those deaths to tensions arising from people trying to get to march down a road.

I am not good at searching old posts but you are a master at it. So why don’t you post both the comment you responded to and the response.
Say what you like. You were associating this terrible tragedy with my favourite festival.
If you can’t find it then rather than playing silly nasty games, you can put it all to bed by saying ‘the murder of those three kids had nothing to do with the twelfth’
I’ll not hold my breath

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am not good at searching old posts but you are a master at it. So why don’t you post both the comment you responded to and the response.
Say what you like. You were associating this terrible tragedy with my favourite festival.
If you can’t find it then rather than playing silly nasty games, you can put it all to bed by saying ‘the murder of those three kids had nothing to do with the twelfth’
I’ll not hold my breath

Drumcree, is held before the 12th. Is it a part of the 12th? I don't know.

What I do know is that house was attacked as tensions rose around marching at Drumcree.

If the cap fits and it is a part of 'your favourite festival', wear it. I'm not bothered about the distinction to be honest.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

So over 20 years on since the GFA and you think it's all a big hoax and the Provos have just been on holidays to lure you into a false sense of security?

Your attempts to credit only David Trimble for the GFA are very transparent, Downcow. And yes, it was impressive. Possibly one of the most impressive treaties in modern history.

As is your attempt to reduce the 3000+ deaths during the Troubles as totally the fault of the Republican community, with no acknowledgement of the festering situation which led to the PIRA, the actions of British armed forces or Loyalist paramilitaries (often in tandem). No, 'side' sat down at the table with clean hands during the GFA negotiations, Downcow.

You've got the biggest, 'I believe in self determination for the people of NI' possible - support for the GFA and PIRA decommissioning. SF have repeatedly stated their support for the GFA, and endlessly stated that they would continue to work towards unification using exclusively peaceful, democratic means.

It's becoming quite clear that your idea of support for self-determination exclusively means support for NI remaining part of the UK. It is perfectly plausible for SF to support the idea of self-determination for the North while maintaining aspirations towards unification.

All of this aside, just to point you back on track - you stated that the majority of Republicans on this thread do not support the right to self-determination for the people of NI. For the third or fourth time, can you give examples on this thread of a few Republicans stating that they do not support the GFA? I can personally think of potentially one post across the thread that would imply leanings towards dissident Republicanism, but the vast majority? I don't think so.

Here you go fionn.
You wanted evidence sf/ira don’t support self-determination for NI.
sf will be ducking and diving now that a very senior MP has nailed it. Hahaha. I love it.
https://sluggerotoole.com/2020/07/18/we-were-sold-a-pup-with-the-gfa-sinn-fein-mp/

jm08

downcow wrote: »

I see Francie has disappeared, when asked to justify why he said that the Quinn children were killed because of the twelfth.
I am sure Francie knows the facts of the situation, but because he has planted the seed in many southerners heads I think it is worth expanding a little.

This was an horrendous despicable act that turned almost everyone's stomach in Northern Ireland, and indeed across the world.
Three beautiful young children burned to their deaths by scumbags.

These three young children were reared as Protestants and lived in a predominantly, but not exclusively, Protestant estate in Ballymoney. They naturally went to their local Protestant school and the vast majority of their friends were also Protestant.
They had helped with the building of the bonfire in the lead up to the 11th night, and that very evening they had been at the bonfire. They were intending to go and enjoy the 12th the next day

Their mother was from a mixed marriage and their father was estranged. Their mum was living with a loyalist who was mixed up in drugs trade. There had been a simmering feud in the area around drugs control and their mums partner was involved - he also had a string of offences. Their mums brother had also fallen out with the assailants around drugs a week previously and they had threatened him.
The assailants were UVF scumbag drug dealers
Late on the 11th night early twelfth morning the house had a petrol bomb thrown into it. Their mum, her sibling and her loyalist partner escaped the house, and the three lovely boys were horrifically burned to death.

Now there is no question Francie knows the story. For him to raise it to score points against my community festival, the twelfth, is absolutely despicable. But sure that is nothing new. .... Don't let the truth get in the way of a chance to have a good boot at the prods

Shame on you Downcow for twisting the Quinn boys story.


No. 1: Both parents were catholics. The boys' mother had come from a mixed marriage.

No. 2: They were not brought up as protestants. They just went to the State school rather than a catholic school because the area they lived in was predominantly protestant. Their mother encouraged the boys to make friends with their protestant neighbours so as they would not get any hasslel.
No. 3: The week prior to the 12th and the fire bombing of the Quinn home,

''The Ballymoney Times reported a story the week of the deaths, stating that a resident of the Carnany estate called in and was concerned about tension in the area adding something serious might happen "unless Catholic residents were left alone".

No. 4: The Orange Order made a statement disassociating themselves from it, but saying that it was a sectarian attack.
No. 5: Ian Paisley said ''described the killings as "diabolical", "repugnant" and it "stained Protestantism". He also said that the IRA had done much worse!
No. 6: The Mrs Quinn moved back to her mother's home where they buried the boys.

A number of loyalist bands defied RUC requests not to play music while marching past the boys' grandmother's house in the days after the killings.

7. The judge's comments:

The judge said it was a "UVF attack with a clear inference that its motive was sectarian". It came as a wave of violence swept Northern Ireland in the wake of the Drumcree Orange Order parade stand-off.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Drumcree, is held before the 12th. Is it a part of the 12th? I don't know.

What I do know is that house was attacked as tensions rose around marching at Drumcree.

If the cap fits and it is a part of 'your favourite festival', wear it. I'm not bothered about the distinction to be honest.

Well have some balls Francie. Be clear with us all.
Select an option below
1) the Quinn murders were because of the twelfth
2) the Quinn murders had nothing to do with the twelfth.

This is developing into one of you most pathetic despicable contributions

You hate my community and you hate my culture

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Well have some balls Francie. Be clear with us all.
Select an option below
1) the Quinn murders were because of the twelfth
2) the Quinn murders had nothing to do with the twelfth.

This is developing into one of you most pathetic despicable contributions

You hate my community and you hate my culture

Some of your community's culture is very, very ugly Downcow. What kind of fanatics would celebrate their ''culture'' by playing music outside the house of the boys' grandmother where their mother was staying when they were asked not to by the RUC?

droidman123

RobMc59 wrote: »

My mistake,reference to SF is in regards to devolved government.I agree the mainland covid response has been very poor whilst Ireland has handled it well,as has NI.

What "mainland" are you talking about? I was born and raised in dublin and the only mainland in relation to my country is the mainland of ireland