How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I think you misunderstood by post. I was affirming you for referring to Northern Ireland, and I very much appreciate it I regard it as a very respectable gesture from someone who referred themselves as a Republican. I was pointing out that is out of step with most Republicans.

Your UVF example is like comparing apples with pairs (I avoided the obvious there).
If you said that most of the posters on here thought I was in the UVF, then I would expect posters to be more than willing to come on and challenge that.
Anyhow your request was that I find one poster who does not agree with the right of the people of Northern Ireland to exercise self-determination. So let's take a random few.

Junkyard Tom, Francie, Bonnie do you support the right of the people of Northern Ireland to exercise self-determination?

Of course I support their right to 'self determination'.

I told you this before, if you want self determination for specific areas, then it is up to you to politically lobby for that.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Once more, the burden of proof lies with you. To take your random few, it is down to you to provide evidence that those posters do not support the right of the people of NI to exercise self determination. It isn't down to anyone else to prove your point for you. Either you can evidence your statement or you can't. The absence of negative evidence is not positive evidence itself.

Fionn, this is pathetic tbh

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Of course I support their right to 'self determination'.

I told you this before, if you want self determination for specific areas, then it is up to you to politically lobby for that.

Well there we are now. I apologise as it seems even Francie supports self-determination for NI. That is genuine learning for me,

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Well there we are now. I apologise as it seems even Francie supports self-determination for NI. That is genuine learning for me,

What are you on about?

You've lost me.

gormdubhgorm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Nothing to do with Carson and Craig playing soldiers and putting the gun back into Irish politics?

It's all dem republicans fault.

Well it is yeah. If there was no 1916 history would be very different now. Republicans were basically in too much of a rush, waited 300 years already at that stage and could not wait a few more. A gradual process instead of crash bang wallop.

Plus here is a good article entitled '800 years of myths' - which is a good antidote to Republican dogma and myth.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/800-years-of-myths-1.1125328

FrancieBrady

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Well it is yeah. If there was no 1916 history would be very different now. Republicans were basically in too much of a rush, waited 300 years already at that stage and could not wait a few more. A gradual process instead of crash bang wallop.

Plus here is a good article entitled '800 years of myths' - which is a good antidote to Republican dogma and myth.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/800-years-of-myths-1.1125328

Jaysus...I knew I shouldn't have engaged. :D:D

Rock on there GD.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are you on about?

You've lost me.

I am admitting to fionn that I was wrong. I am surprised that you support self-determination for the people of NI.
You have certainly cheered me up this Sunday afternoon.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

I am admitting to fionn that I was wrong. I am surprised that you support self-determination for the people of NI.
You have certainly cheered me up this Sunday afternoon.

Why are you surprised that somebody who supports the GFA would support self determination?
It isn't an á la carte agreement you know. Well you should know as Unionists have tried to pick items off it, but have so far failed to get away with that.

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Fionn, this is pathetic tbh

Expecting someone to back up their assertion is pathetic, Downcow?

Perhaps you and I have different standards for debate. I suspect if I made such a wild claim, you'd expect me to provide some evidence.

Either way, I'm glad to see that you've acknowledged the claim was totally incorrect so we can move on.

BonnieSituation

So what is it we've done now to the poor wee non-sectarian OO that's put DC out?

---

No idea why I got dragged into this self determination strawman, but I guess to clear matters up for DC so he can move the goalposts again I probably should engage.

I support the GFA and as a Nationalist I look forward to the day we have an independent 32 county republic.

Now, until then, any bizarre repartitioning fantasy you have can probably wait. No idea why any Nationalist would want to be joined Together in another weird sectarian statelet, but if you want to lobby for it DC, then more power to you. You have that right as a citizen of a republic.

BonnieSituation

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Expecting someone to back up their assertion is pathetic, Downcow?

Perhaps you and I have different standards for debate. I suspect if I made such a wild claim, you'd expect me to provide some evidence.

Either way, I'm glad to see that you've acknowledged the claim was totally incorrect so we can move on.

As we've seen on thread, the standard of debate espoused by Unionists' is stick fingers in ears or click ignore. They don't have many robust arguments.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Expecting someone to back up their assertion is pathetic, Downcow?

Perhaps you and I have different standards for debate. I suspect if I made such a wild claim, you'd expect me to provide some evidence.

Either way, I'm glad to see that you've acknowledged the claim was totally incorrect so we can move on.

Well I wouldn’t go quite that far. I confess I am surprised that Francie is comfortable supporting self-determination for NI. Indeed I am surprised he is comfortable with the whole concept of NI existing. You are the one that said all or most republicans felt similarly (can’t be bothered trawling back to find your actual quote) , I Am sure you won’t mind me making a similar demand for evidence to prove this, and of course you will have it, I am sure or you wouldn’t have stated it otherwise.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Well I wouldn’t go quite that far. I confess I am surprised that Francie is comfortable supporting self-determination for NI. Indeed I am surprised he is comfortable with the whole concept of NI existing. You are the one that said all or most republicans felt similarly (can’t be bothered trawling back to find your actual quote) , I Am sure you won’t mind me making a similar demand for evidence to prove this, and of course you will have it, I am sure or you wouldn’t have stated it otherwise.

You are the only one on this thread (I don't have to trawl posts either, to say it) who has said that 'they could not guarantee to remain peaceful' if the majority vote to end the constitutional status of NI.

That's YOU downcow not guaranteeing peaceful acceptance of the agreement you say you support.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So what is it we've done now to the poor wee non-sectarian OO that's put DC out?

---

No idea why I got dragged into this self determination strawman, but I guess to clear matters up for DC so he can move the goalposts again I probably should engage.

I support the GFA and as a Nationalist I look forward to the day we have an independent 32 county republic.

Now, until then, any bizarre repartitioning fantasy you have can probably wait. No idea why any Nationalist would want to be joined Together in another weird sectarian statelet, but if you want to lobby for it DC, then more power to you. You have that right as a citizen of a republic.

Fionn was much more clear.
He said that you ‘supported the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination’.
Now that you are in the debate do you care to confirm that this is the case? No need to reference gfa etc

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Fionn was much more clear.
He said that you ‘supported the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination’.
Now that you are in the debate do you care to confirm that this is the case? No need to reference gfa etc

What's the question?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You are the only one on this thread (I don't have to trawl posts either, to say it) who has said that 'they could not guarantee to remain peaceful' if the majority vote to end the constitutional status of NI.

That's YOU downcow not guaranteeing peaceful acceptance of the agreement you say you support.

Francie, I can’t guarantee I won’t become a rampant republican. Never say never.

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What's the question?

There was no question.
Fionn said that you supported the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination.

My question is, would you do me a favour and state that without equivocation?

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Well I wouldn’t go quite that far. I confess I am surprised that Francie is comfortable supporting self-determination for NI. Indeed I am surprised he is comfortable with the whole concept of NI existing. You are the one that said all or most republicans felt similarly (can’t be bothered trawling back to find your actual quote) , I Am sure you won’t mind me making a similar demand for evidence to prove this, and of course you will have it, I am sure or you wouldn’t have stated it otherwise.

Easy, Downcow. It's called the Good Friday Agreement.

71% of voters in NI voted YES. More Nationalists voted Yes than Unionists also. I believe the Nationalist vote was over 90% Yes. As self determination was a core tenet of the GFA, that would be evidence that the vast majority of Nationalists support self determination.

I certainly didn't say ALL Republicans, in fact I specifically referenced dissidents who did not support the GFA as an example of Republicans who do not support self determination for NI.

You also have my statement of support, Francie's and Bonnie's on here.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

There was no question.
Fionn said that you supported the right of Northern Ireland to self-determination.

My question is, would you do me a favour and state that without equivocation?

If there's no question then what am I answering?

What was unclear in my statement above that needs further clarification?

downcow

BonnieSituation wrote: »

If there's no question then what am I answering?

What was unclear in my statement above that needs further clarification?

I had told fionn some time ago that I thought some would come on to rescue him with a carefully chosen form of words but not exactly what he was saying

FrancieBrady

Could somebody explain what it is downcow is getting at? Because he isn't doing a great job of it himself.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

I had told fionn some time ago that I thought some would come on to rescue him with a carefully chosen form of words but not exactly what he was saying

I know exactly what you mean Downcow and you're correct!

BonnieSituation

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Could somebody explain what it is downcow is getting at? Because he isn't doing a great job of it himself.

In a shocking turn of events, Rob seems to get it.

Fionn1952

BonnieSituation wrote: »

In a shocking turn of events, Rob seems to get it.

I am SHOCKED, shocked I say! Our, 'neutral' curious external observer being impartial as always.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

In a shocking turn of events, Rob seems to get it.

You seem to flit in and out of the mainly anti British threads,with flippant one liners and your low level trolling,even getting mentioned by name for it...well done!...

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

You seem to flit in and out of the mainly anti British threads,with flippant one liners and your low level trolling,even getting mentioned by name for it...well done!...

What anti British threads are these?

The Brexit thread? The UK response to Covid thread? The United Ireland thread?

How are they anti British? How am I trolling?

It's a bit rich for you to be accusing me of trolling when you had the audacity to come in here and condone State sanctioned murder of innocent people in Croke Park and give us the "woe is me" when called out on it. Not to mention your little strop yesterday with Fionn which all stemmed from you bring called out for your hypocrisy.

You're some man.

Junkyard Tom

BonnieSituation wrote: »

No idea why I got dragged into this self determination strawman, but I guess to clear matters up for DC so he can move the goalposts again I probably should engage.

Does he mean an independent six counties?

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

What anti British threads are these?

The Brexit thread? The UK response to Covid thread? The United Ireland thread?

How are they anti British? How am I trolling?

It's a bit rich for you to be accusing me of trolling when you had the audacity to come in here and condone State sanctioned murder of innocent people in Croke Park and give us the "woe is me" when called out on it. Not to mention your little strop yesterday with Fionn which all stemmed from you bring called out for your hypocrisy.

You're some man.

You`ve some front as it was you amongst others who thought it fine to murder innocent civilians who were working legitimately for the Crown.To say some deaths are worse than others is sickening and the epitome of hypocrisy.

Fionn1952

RobMc59 wrote: »

You`ve some front as it was you amongst others who thought it fine to murder innocent civilians who were working legitimately for the Crown.To say some deaths are worse than others is sickening and the epitome of hypocrisy.

Except when you do it....

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

You`ve some front as it was you amongst others who thought it fine to murder innocent civilians who were working legitimately for the Crown.To say some deaths are worse than others is sickening and the epitome of hypocrisy.

Well, I never said any of those things. But you DID say that the crowd in Croke Park we're legitimate targets and that you condoned their killing.

So maybe whist a bit before coming in here talking nonsense about my apparent "trolling".