How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

downcow

Guys yous are distracting fionn. He is compiling a list of incidents of band parades upsetting nationalist communities in 2019.
He is taking a while so it must be a very long list he is developing. Should be easy because as Francie says, we are rotten.
......or maybe we are not lol

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There are few issues these days.

Never thought I would hear you admit it.
Huge respect to you for getting past your own prejudice to acknowledge loyalist parading issues are ‘few’

Mind you, you would educate me if you could help fion list last years. I thought they were nil rather than few but I guess amongst 1,000+ parades something must have happened.
But thank you

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Guys yous are distracting fionn. He is compiling a list of incidents of band parades upsetting nationalist communities in 2019.
He is taking a while so it must be a very long list he is developing. Should be easy because as Francie says, we are rotten.
......or maybe we are not lol

Perhaps we don't all spend our entire Friday evenings sitting on Boards, Downcow. I was having a rather nice meal at home with my partner and didn't notice your reply until recently.

Once more you're a great one for the aul cherry picking. In a discussion about issues with the Orange Order and 12th July celebrations.....you want to exclude the Orange Order and 11th Night (a fundamental part of the overall festival celebrations, disputed by absolutely no one).

Even within your tight parameters, I'd say walking through Derry with Parachute Regiment symbols on their uniform was pretty intentional and provocative last year. I'd say the Shankhill Star band's memorialising of Brian Robinson is pretty provocative. I'd say the Clarke Memorial Flute Band playing The Famine Song outside a Catholic church in 2018 was pretty nasty. In fact I'd question quite a bit of the repertoire of some of the more Blood and Thunder bands (I believe I've got the terminology correct there?)

Junkyard Tom

downcow wrote: »

Never thought I would hear you admit it.
Huge respect to you for getting past your own prejudice to acknowledge loyalist parading issues are ‘few’

There are fewer issues because you're not allowed to march where you'd like to.

To borrow a phrase, unionism had to be 'house trained'.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Perhaps we don't all spend our entire Friday evenings sitting on Boards, Downcow. I was having a rather nice meal at home with my partner and didn't notice your reply until recently.

Once more you're a great one for the aul cherry picking. In a discussion about issues with the Orange Order and 12th July celebrations.....you want to exclude the Orange Order and 11th Night (a fundamental part of the overall festival celebrations, disputed by absolutely no one).

Even within your tight parameters, I'd say walking through Derry with Parachute Regiment symbols on their uniform was pretty intentional and provocative last year. I'd say the Shankhill Star band's memorialising of Brian Robinson is pretty provocative. I'd say the Clarke Memorial Flute Band playing The Famine Song outside a Catholic church in 2018 was pretty nasty. In fact I'd question quite a bit of the repertoire of some of the more Blood and Thunder bands (I believe I've got the terminology correct there?)

Ok so I gave you the very tight parameters of 1,000+ band parades lol. You found 3 issues. Zero from what my community regard as band parades in 2019. One, the Brian Robinson, could at a stretch be called a band parade. One was from 2018 (not a band parade either) and one was from the apprentice boys day.
This should put things in perspective for people. 1,000+ parades and fionn finds one issue which is a band holding an event to remember a terrorist. Wrong and condemned by me. Just as wrong as the hunger striker marches.

So fionn, what about excepting loyalist bands in ni in 2019 were involved in less controversial issues than gaa teams.
It’s important southerners understand this.

downcow

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

There are fewer issues because you're not allowed to march where you'd like to.

To borrow a phrase, unionism had to be 'house trained'.

I appreciate your acknowledgment. Would you pm fionn and tell him his search is in vain.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Ok so I gave you the very tight parameters of 1,000+ band parades lol. You found 3 issues. Zero from what my community regard as band parades in 2019. One, the Brian Robinson, could at a stretch be called a band parade. One was from 2018 (not a band parade either) and one was from the apprentice boys day.
This should put things in perspective for people. 1,000+ parades and fionn finds one issue which is a band holding an event to remember a terrorist. Wrong and condemned by me. Just as wrong as the hunger striker marches.

So fionn, what about excepting loyalist bands in ni in 2019 were involved in less controversial issues than gaa teams.
It’s important southerners understand this.

Totally ignoring the toxic elements highlighted by Fionn and no acceptance that the only reason you have managed what you have is down to the vigilance of a parade commission you vehemently hate and oppose.

You are fooling nobody but yourself here.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Totally ignoring the toxic elements highlighted by Fionn and no acceptance that the only reason you have managed what you have is down to the vigilance of a parade commission you vehemently hate and oppose.

You are fooling nobody but yourself here.

Thanks Francie. We might disagree over the catalyst but we are in complete agreement over what the marching bands have managed
Now if we can get the gaa etc to move forward even half as fast it would be great

Fionn1952

downcow wrote: »

Ok so I gave you the very tight parameters of 1,000+ band parades lol. You found 3 issues. Zero from what my community regard as band parades in 2019. One, the Brian Robinson, could at a stretch be called a band parade. One was from 2018 (not a band parade either) and one was from the apprentice boys day.
This should put things in perspective for people. 1,000+ parades and fionn finds one issue which is a band holding an event to remember a terrorist. Wrong and condemned by me. Just as wrong as the hunger striker marches.

So fionn, what about excepting loyalist bands in ni in 2019 were involved in less controversial issues than gaa teams.
It’s important southerners understand this.

Once more he swings the goalposts off to another pitch, as predicted a few posts back.

All of the incidents I highlighted were Loyalist bands. You were the one who specified we were talking about bands, not the Orange Order. The Apprentice Boys parade were accompanied by who, Downcow? The Clyde Valley Flute Band from Larne. The one from 2018 was, as mentioned the Clarke Memorial Flute Band.

Were you expecting a play-by-play on every single band parade of the last five years? You asked for some examples, I took two minutes and found some examples.

Apparently the issues with Loyalist bands don't count if Downcow hand waves it away.

Head in the sand stuff here.

FrancieBrady

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Once more he swings the goalposts off to another pitch, as predicted a few posts back.

All of the incidents I highlighted were Loyalist bands. You were the one who specified we were talking about bands, not the Orange Order. The Apprentice Boys parade were accompanied by who, Downcow? The Clyde Valley Flute Band from Larne. The one from 2018 was, as mentioned the Clarke Memorial Flute Band.

Were you expecting a play-by-play on every single band parade of the last five years? You asked for some examples, I took two minutes and found some examples.

Apparently the issues with Loyalist bands don't count if Downcow hand waves it away.

Head in the sand stuff here.

Absolutely Fionn...he is now turning anything he can find in a post into a huge victory...still ignoring the issues.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

Once more he swings the goalposts off to another pitch, as predicted a few posts back.

All of the incidents I highlighted were Loyalist bands. You were the one who specified we were talking about bands, not the Orange Order. The Apprentice Boys parade were accompanied by who, Downcow? The Clyde Valley Flute Band from Larne. The one from 2018 was, as mentioned the Clarke Memorial Flute Band.

Were you expecting a play-by-play on every single band parade of the last five years? You asked for some examples, I took two minutes and found some examples.

Apparently the issues with Loyalist bands don't count if Downcow hand waves it away.

Head in the sand stuff here.

You wanted parameters and I was very clear that we leave loyal order parades out of it and focus on the 1,000+ band parades. I even said these are the parades happen every Friday and Saturday night accross the province that thousands of young people attend. You could not find one single incident. Quite remarkable and something they should be extremely proud of.
So you could park that issue by acknowledging their discipline and behaviour before moving on to the 1,000+ loyal order parades.
Integrity and levelheadedness and we’ll get somewhere here.

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The fact yous have no issue,with bands parading about through derry with insignias in support of soldier F is nothing short of shocking


Any unionists i know,stomachs turn at what he done and the wipespread support of him is alienating them from mainstream unionism

Who said I had no issue with it? Fionn wanted parameters and then when those parameters did not suit he went way outside them to find something.

Fionn1952

To clear your very confused musings up Downcow, what actually happened was I was complaining about your constant changing of parameters and unnecessarily narrowing of them to try and create a false narrative.

You've got so ridiculous that you're suggesting discussion of the 12th and Orange parades aren't relevant.....to a discussion that started around the 12th and Orange parades.

I'd laugh, but I get the impression you genuinely think you're being reasonable here.

downcow

Fionn1952 wrote: »

To clear your very confused musings up Downcow, what actually happened was I was complaining about your constant changing of parameters and unnecessarily narrowing of them to try and create a false narrative.

You've got so ridiculous that you're suggesting discussion of the 12th and Orange parades aren't relevant.....to a discussion that started around the 12th and Orange parades.

I'd laugh, but I get the impression you genuinely think you're being reasonable here.

The discussion was about fitz saying that the twelfth cost £14,000,000 to police. I thought we had scuppered that and were then dealing with your accusation that I keep jumping about with parameters. So I repeated exactly the request I had made weeks ago with very clear parameters which no one answered. You then moved the parameters again because you didn’t like that question.
Anyone can look back and see who is telling the truth about the sequence of events.

So if you want to go back to fitz issue with the twelfth then I am very happy to. - same question. Can you give me examples from the last twelfth (2019 as 2020 didn’t really happen) of incidents or of issues which might require high levels of policing or of issues. Simple question and tight parameters that you like. The twelfth involves several hundred parades with almost half a million people in attendance. Should be very easy again for you
But do not be heading to stuff that absolutely no unionist or honest nationalist refers to as the twelfth. The twelfth starts from about 10am and finishes on the same evening. 500,000 people at festival, plenty of drink. Must be loads of stuff lol

downcow

Someone sent me this article about the Irish eu deal. I am unaware of the source so am genuinely interested in what you guys think? Is it anywhere near the truth? It wouldn’t auger well for a UI if true. You would be net contributors to eu and we are net receivers from uk. A no brainer for us.
https://gript.ie/new-eu-deal-lets-face-it-ireland-got-screwed/

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

You wanted parameters and I was very clear that we leave loyal order parades out of it and focus on the 1,000+ band parades. I even said these are the parades happen every Friday and Saturday night accross the province that thousands of young people attend. You could not find one single incident. Quite remarkable and something they should be extremely proud of.
So you could park that issue by acknowledging their discipline and behaviour before moving on to the 1,000+ loyal order parades.
Integrity and levelheadedness and we’ll get somewhere here.

Which is probably why nobody has a problem when your bands parade and behave themselves.

What people specifically HAVE A PROBLEM with, what the Parades Commission was created for was to deal with the 'toxic, rotten' elements on show every year around parades, 11th night etc.
You still don't recognise and thank the Parades Commission for tidying up your image. You should.

RobMc59

downcow wrote: »

Someone sent me this article about the Irish eu deal. I am unaware of the source so am genuinely interested in what you guys think? Is it anywhere near the truth? It wouldn’t auger well for a UI if true. You would be net contributors to eu and we are net receivers from uk. A no brainer for us.
https://gript.ie/new-eu-deal-lets-face-it-ireland-got-screwed/

That's a phenomenal amount of money and must be irritating as Ireland has been responsible.To now have to pay to bail out others is wrong imo and would definitely affect any potential Irish/EU financial input to a UI.
As a UK tax payer I have concerns about paying for economic measures the chancellor brought in for covid.If I had to pay for other countries I'd be very unhappy.

BonnieSituation

RobMc59 wrote: »

That's a phenomenal amount of money and must be irritating as Ireland has been responsible.To now have to pay to bail out others is wrong imo and would definitely affect any potential Irish/EU financial input to a UI.
As a UK tax payer I have concerns about paying for economic measures the chancellor brought in for covid.If I had to pay for other countries I'd be very unhappy.

Responsible?

You were constantly bleating about how irresponsible we were and how the border needed to be shut to stop the rampaging hoardes infecting the good Brits of Poyntzpass and Jonesboro.

RobMc59

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Responsible?

You were constantly bleating about how irresponsible we were and how the border needed to be shut to stop the rampaging hoardes infecting the good Brits of Poyntzpass and Jonesboro.

Only the eejits from inchicore.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Someone sent me this article about the Irish eu deal. I am unaware of the source so am genuinely interested in what you guys think? Is it anywhere near the truth? It wouldn’t auger well for a UI if true. You would be net contributors to eu and we are net receivers from uk. A no brainer for us.
https://gript.ie/new-eu-deal-lets-face-it-ireland-got-screwed/

Well, the source is John McGuirk who is a ring wing conservative catholic who was Director of Libertas that opposed the Lisbon Treaty and claims that Irish people do not understand the EU! He opposed the 8th Amendment, LGBT rights, etc. etc. Nice you have pals who are conservative catholics DC and who thoughtfully forwarded you that article!

Most Irish people see being a net contributor as a good thing because it is based on how well you are doing as EU contributions are based on affordability. In the event of a UI, Ireland would probably end up being a net beneficiary, so irrelevant to the UI question.

jm08

RobMc59 wrote: »

That's a phenomenal amount of money and must be irritating as Ireland has been responsible.To now have to pay to bail out others is wrong imo and would definitely affect any potential Irish/EU financial input to a UI.
As a UK tax payer I have concerns about paying for economic measures the chancellor brought in for covid.If I had to pay for other countries I'd be very unhappy.

UK missed big time not being in the EU because it would have done well out of this fund as it has been hard hit.


Since Ireland is an exporting country, it is in our interests that countries like France, Spain and Italy recover quickly so that they can be back contributing again so that we are not the 5th highest contributor and we can sell stuff to them.


Just for the record, the EU has set aside €5 billion for the countries that are most affected by Brexit where it looks like Ireland will be the major beneficiary of that fund (along with Belgium).

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Which is probably why nobody has a problem when your bands parade and behave themselves.

What people specifically HAVE A PROBLEM with, what the Parades Commission was created for was to deal with the 'toxic, rotten' elements on show every year around parades, 11th night etc.
You still don't recognise and thank the Parades Commission for tidying up your image. You should.

Thanks Francie. Others should note that when a belligerent republican like Francie says the band scene has now a tidy image, it is quite a recommendation.
This would be a good starting point for a real discussion about the future. Let’s park the past as we have totally different perspectives of it.
Let’s bank the fact that republicans on here have accepted that the ‘twelfth day’ is fine and tidy. Let’s bank that no one can find a single incident or issue with each of the 600+ bands own parade competitions on fri and say nights and there seems acceptance that that is sorted.
People clearly feel there is much work needed re the 11th night and I accept that and am happy to discuss as it is moving fast in the right direction.
The other issue from 2019 was a band wearing parachute regiment wings on its sleeve. That’s another very complex one. It is difficult and unfortunate, but it is certainly not as presented here.

It’s interesting how my culture goes under the microscope here and the gaa etc gets a fairly by ball, but I guess understandable.

BonnieSituation

downcow wrote: »

Thanks Francie. Others should note that when a belligerent republican like Francie says the band scene has now a tidy image, it is quite a recommendation.
This would be a good starting point for a real discussion about the future. Let’s park the past as we have totally different perspectives of it.
Let’s bank the fact that republicans on here have accepted that the ‘twelfth day’ is fine and tidy. Let’s bank that no one can find a single incident or issue with each of the 600+ bands own parade competitions on fri and say nights and there seems acceptance that that is sorted.
People clearly feel there is much work needed re the 11th night and I accept that and am happy to discuss as it is moving fast in the right direction.
The other issue from 2019 was a band wearing parachute regiment wings on its sleeve. That’s another very complex one. It is difficult and unfortunate, but it is certainly not as presented here.

It’s interesting how my culture goes under the microscope here and the gaa etc gets a fairly by ball, but I guess understandable.

You think the GAA is the equivalent of a sectarian abomination like the OO?

See why no one takes you seriously on here.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

UK missed big time not being in the EU because it would have done well out of this fund as it has been hard hit.


Since Ireland is an exporting country, it is in our interests that countries like France, Spain and Italy recover quickly so that they can be back contributing again so that we are not the 5th highest contributor and we can sell stuff to them.


Just for the record, the EU has set aside €5 billion for the countries that are most affected by Brexit where it looks like Ireland will be the major beneficiary of that fund (along with Belgium).

Fair play jm08. You are certainly an optimist 😂

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Thanks Francie. Others should note that when a belligerent republican like Francie says the band scene has now a tidy image, it is quite a recommendation.
This would be a good starting point for a real discussion about the future. Let’s park the past as we have totally different perspectives of it.
Let’s bank the fact that republicans on here have accepted that the ‘twelfth day’ is fine and tidy. Let’s bank that no one can find a single incident or issue with each of the 600+ bands own parade competitions on fri and say nights and there seems acceptance that that is sorted.
People clearly feel there is much work needed re the 11th night and I accept that and am happy to discuss as it is moving fast in the right direction.
The other issue from 2019 was a band wearing parachute regiment wings on its sleeve. That’s another very complex one. It is difficult and unfortunate, but it is certainly not as presented here.

It’s interesting how my culture goes under the microscope here and the gaa etc gets a fairly by ball, but I guess understandable.

I suppose DC, the GAA confine their activity to a big field and are not marching up and down the public roads annoying everyone.



Why not just get the bands to confine themselves to marching around a big field. A compromise could be that the GAA players could get and follow them around (oh, I forgot, thats what happens in the GAA anyway). Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGZMdEupFkM

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Fair play jm08. You are certainly an optimist ��

I can see you might be sceptical bearing in mind that the British Government make it up as they go on. That isn't the case with the EU who stick to what they say they will do.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

I suppose DC, the GAA confine their activity to a big field and are not marching up and down the public roads annoying everyone.



Why not just get the bands to confine themselves to marching around a big field. A compromise could be that the GAA players could get and follow them around (oh, I forgot, thats what happens in the GAA anyway). Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGZMdEupFkM

Firstly that is nonsense that they confine their activities to the field. Their activities off the field was what drove the last few Protestant families out off my town.

Also rediculous that you want my culture to mirror your culture. That’s the most rediculous thing you have said yet.
I hope someday you with see the rich value of diversity. Francie says the twelfth has tidied up its image. Why don’t you go along next year and get a real sense what it is like. It’s very hard to judge from the outside, get in there and see what it is really like in a town centre on the twelfth. You might even enjoy it

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

I suppose DC, the GAA confine their activity to a big field and are not marching up and down the public roads annoying everyone.



Why not just get the bands to confine themselves to marching around a big field. A compromise could be that the GAA players could get and follow them around (oh, I forgot, thats what happens in the GAA anyway). Watch this

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGZMdEupFkM

Firstly that is nonsense that they confine their activities to the field. Their activities off the field was what drove the last few Protestant families out off my town.

Also rediculous that you want my culture to mirror your culture. That’s the most rediculous thing you have said yet.
I hope someday you with see the rich value of diversity. Francie says the twelfth has tidied up its image. Why don’t you go along next year and get a real sense what it is like. It’s very hard to judge from the outside, get in there and see what it is really like in a town centre on the twelfth. You might even enjoy it

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Firstly that is nonsense that they confine their activities to the field. Their activities off the field was what drove the last few Protestant families out off my town.

Also rediculous that you want my culture to mirror your culture. That’s the most rediculous thing you have said yet.
I hope someday you with see the rich value of diversity. Francie says the twelfth has tidied up its image. Why don’t you go along next year and get a real sense what it is like. It’s very hard to judge from the outside, get in there and see what it is really like in a town centre on the twelfth. You might even enjoy it

Francie said no such thing...there are still huge issues with the 12th and Orangism in general.

What 'Francie said' was that band parades are now passing off relatively peacefully because they had been made to by the Parades Commission - behave yourselves or forget getting permission.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Firstly that is nonsense that they confine their activities to the field. Their activities off the field was what drove the last few Protestant families out off my town.

What did the GAA do to drive protestant families out of your town?

Also rediculous that you want my culture to mirror your culture. That’s the most rediculous thing you have said yet.

Whats the important bit of your band culture? The marching or the playing of music?

I hope someday you with see the rich value of diversity. Francie says the twelfth has tidied up its image. Why don’t you go along next year and get a real sense what it is like. It’s very hard to judge from the outside, get in there and see what it is really like in a town centre on the twelfth. You might even enjoy it

There has been plenty of people who have made documentaries on the 12th like John Creedon which was very interesting. Here is the Irish Passport Podcast on the ''Glorious 12th''. I'd be interesting to hear what you have to say about their experience of it, DC.


https://www.theirishpassport.com/podcast/s2-episode-9-the-glorious-twelfth/