How long before Irish reunification? (Part 2) Threadbans in OP

FrancieBrady

RobMc59 wrote: »

I'm not gloating about anything.
This is how I see it:NI are better off because the people are in control of their own destiny.
Ireland is better off, if there is an agreement along with the people of NI there will be a UI.
The UK(including NI)is free of terrorist attacks.
The only organisation that has lost out is the IRA who have been forced to stand down without achieving their goal.

So why the f*** is it that everytime there is a call for a border poll there is a clamour from Unionists? Why the hell d they try to bring the place to a standstill, wreck their own areas whenever there are attempts to bring in normal societal measures and rights?

Who lost out? You might get away with that nonsense wherever you are from...but we are dealing with steadfast unionist belligerence since the GFA. Your government had to step in to provide rights they have been denying ffs.

Hamsterchops

jm08 wrote: »

The only ones who seem to care about the PIRA losing out, are unionists. No one else cares.

Are you crazy

We're all greatfull that the PIRA stopped killing people, and we're all grateful that the PIRA lost out. Only hard-line Republicans would have hoped for the Provos to have attained their aims through Terrorism.

RIP John Hume.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Average full time wage in ni £27434 (e30,458)

Average full time wage in free state e39,000

More to it than just wages. Tax regimes, NHS v private health insurance, property tax etc.

Bottom line in an UI either wages increase in the South or decrease in the North. Obviously the latter is cheaper.

jm08

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Are you crazy

We're all greatfull that the PIRA stopped killing people, and we're all grateful that the PIRA lost out. Only hard-line Republicans would have hoped for the Provos to have attained their aims through Terrorism.

RIP John Hume.

No, I'm not crazy. The only people who keep banging on about the PIRA are unionists because they see it as some sort of a defence for their actions (for example, Irish Nationalist - the British Army were terrible, Unionists - but the PIRA were much worse!


Most of us agree that they were all terrible.

FrancieBrady

jm08 wrote: »

No, I'm not crazy. The only people who keep banging on about the PIRA are unionists

And bitter partitionists who are afraid now that SF are at the gate.

jh79

jm08 wrote: »

So, if more foreign direct investment is brought into NI so that there are more jobs available, the percentage of public service jobs will fall as there will be more people working in the private sector.

Seagate came to Derry in 1994 (brought by John Hume) providing 500 jobs then. It employs about 1500 now.

NI doesn't invest enough to attract FDI which is a big financial obstacle for unification as the Republic would have to invest for a long time with no guarantee of a return.

The prospect of SF in power is another obstacle to a UI, their populist rhetoric about multinationals (Apple Tax that they would of already spent being a prime example) will frighten away FDI.

Jaysus, imagine someone like Conor Murphy trying to get a big company to come to NI?

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And bitter partitionists who are afraid now that SF are at the gate.

My fear of SF has nothing to do with NI, they'll make such a mess of the Republic that unification will never be on the cards anyways. The country will struggle to pay its own bills never mind NI's.

jm08

jh79 wrote: »

NI doesn't invest enough to attract FDI which is a big financial obstacle for unification as the Republic would have to invest for a long time with no guarantee of a return.

What does that mean?

The prospect of SF in power is another obstacle to a UI, their populist rhetoric about multinationals (Apple Tax that they would of already spent being a prime example) will frighten away FDI.

Who said anything about Sinn Fein being in power? A UI doesn't automatically mean that they will be.

Jaysus, imagine someone like Conor Murphy trying to get a big company to come to NI?

Sinn Fein have a lot of very wealthy Irish-Amercian supporters. They are the wealthiest political party on the island of Ireland seemingly. The only reason Gerry Adams got a US Visa at the time was to get him to convince this supporters to support peace.


I recommend that John Hume in America documentary. Its really interesting to see the US angle in all of this.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

a mess of the Republic

Ha ha...as if the crowd running it for 100 years were paragons of virtue oe economic brilliance...have a titter of wit as they'd say.
SF will be just another political party born out of a bloody past like every party on the island almost, nothing more nothing less.

jh79

jm08 wrote: »

What does that mean?




Who said anything about Sinn Fein being in power? A UI doesn't automatically mean that they will be.





Sinn Fein have a lot of very wealthy Irish-Amercian supporters. They are the wealthiest political party on the island of Ireland seemingly. The only reason Gerry Adams got a US Visa at the time was to get him to convince this supporters to support peace.


I recommend that John Hume in America documentary. Its really interesting to see the US angle in all of this.

For FDI investment in 3rd level education, infrastructure etc. NI investment in this area is nearly half of the Republic.

While SF do have plenty of rich benefactors we are talking about huge multi-national corporations who won't just invest because it's Ireland.

Ireland's success with FDI didn't happen by accident it involved years of investment to get us were we are. NI is way behind us.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Ha ha...as if the crowd running it for 100 years were paragons of virtue oe economic brilliance...have a titter of wit as they'd say.
SF will be just another political party born out of a bloody past like every party on the island almost, nothing more nothing less.

I'm sure you'll agree that Ireland transformed itself from the 90's on wards. More recently FG did a good job cleaning up FF mess and on a Macro scale we were in good shape economically pre-COVID.

FrancieBrady

jh79 wrote: »

I'm sure you'll agree that Ireland transformed itself from the 90's on wards. More recently FG did a good job cleaning up FF mess and on a Macro scale we were in good shape economically pre-COVID.

What is the natiobal debt again? Accrued by the mishandling of FF while FG cheerlead them on.
A FG so successful at getting us back into shape they recorded one of their worst results at a GE and had to usher in a FF leader to cling on to the power swap/share.

jh79

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is the natiobal debt again? Accrued by the mishandling of FF while FG cheerlead them on.
A FG so successful at getting us back into shape they recorded one of their worst results at a GE and had to usher in a FF leader to cling on to the power swap/share.

I would judge our economic health on credit ratings and borrowing interest rates not election results.

We have a huge national debt because of FF but the markets decided that the actions of FG made that debt manageable.

Look at how things faired out in Greece which is the direction SF would of taken us.

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

All those who embraced the GFA, have done well out of it. But don't forget what the GFA is: it is oversight and ultimate control vested in partnership between 2 sovereign governments who recognised eventually that power had been usurped by the majority community. The GFA redresses that and ensures it can never happen again.
Instead of gloating about fantasy 'eviscerations' maybe you might be cognizant that one major party in NI has never accepted, much less embraced, the GFA. Those are the people you need to fear and be watchful off if you are a democrat.

Could you tell me what control Roi has over ni. You are in dreamworld.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

While I agree that the people of NI are better off now because of the GFA, they are not in control of their own destiny because they need the Secretary of State (who is a unionist) to give them the opportunity to decide their own destiny.


The only ones who seem to care about the PIRA losing out, are unionists. No one else cares.

Francie Malloy seems a tad upset (and honest)

downcow

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Average full time wage in ni £27434 (e30,458)

Average full time wage in free state e39,000

What are the average two take home pays? Just to get us started

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So why the f*** is it that everytime there is a call for a border poll there is a clamour from Unionists? Why the hell d they try to bring the place to a standstill, wreck their own areas whenever there are attempts to bring in normal societal measures and rights?

Who lost out? You might get away with that nonsense wherever you are from...but we are dealing with steadfast unionist belligerence since the GFA. Your government had to step in to provide rights they have been denying ffs.

Gerry told us what we are dealing with
“They haven’t gone away, you know”
“We will use equality as a Trojan horse”
“We will break the bastards”
“Sinn Fein volunteers worked hard to carry on the struggle through setting up residents groups to oppose unionist parades”
“I was never in the ira” haha

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Surely the credit rating/borrowing rate is due to ecb essentially inventing money,and ecb interest rates near zero??


Took FG a decade to get to 0.1% surplus.....and within 2 years we are in near 20 billion of a hole again and no deal brexit looming

Hardly blaming FG for COVID? Also remember FG kept a brexit fund of 6bn which SF were against and SF wanted to spend 15bn of the Apple tax.

If SF were in power that would be an extra 21bn. They also wanted a higher COVID payment and increases in Corpo tax.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

Hardly blaming FG for COVID? Also remember FG kept a brexit fund of 6bn which SF were against and SF wanted to spend 15bn of the Apple tax.

If SF were in power that would be an extra 21bn. They also wanted a higher COVID payment and increases in Corpo tax.

And free gaffs for all with no evictions. Increased social and PS pay. All the expensive populist stuff.

jh79

jh79 wrote: »

And free gaffs for all with no evictions. Increased social and PS pay. All the expensive populist stuff.

Probably should have changed account there pal

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Where did i say i was blaming em for it....just your saying sf would lead to x position....while falling inline and ignoring that ffg alteady have us there



Seems to me sinn fein arent allowed into power here,any and all scams are pulled to insure it,so any and all critism of them over an imagined scearnio is surely pointless??

SF ran away from power according to all the minor parties. Not even an attempt at forming a government.

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Gerry told us what we are dealing with

“They haven’t gone away, you know”

Well, I don't think they had gone away in 1995 when he made that comment.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ira-has-not-gone-away-adams-warns-ministers-ira-has-not-gone-away-1596152.html

“We will use equality as a Trojan horse”
“We will break the bastards”

The 'bastards' Adams was referring to were bigots and homophobes (which unionism is riddle with but Gregory Campbell in particular here) and they were the ones equality would break.


Full quote (read the link for full story) https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/13868873.gerry-adams-on-bigotry-in-unionism-the-point-is-to-break-these-brds/

“But what’s the point? The point is to actually break these ba***rds - that’s the point. And what’s going to break them is equality. That’s what’s going to break them - equality. Who could be afraid of equality? Who could be afraid of treating somebody the way you want to be treated. That’s what we need to keep the focus on - that’s the trojan horse of the entire republican strategy.”

So, DC, are you afraid of equality?

“Sinn Fein volunteers worked hard to carry on the struggle through setting up residents groups to oppose unionist parades”

Not sure what your objection is to this is. Civil rights and all that.

“I was never in the ira” haha

Who cares if he was or he wasn't? Facts are he was interned twice and was never charged with being a member of the PIRA.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gerry-adams-i-was-not-a-member-of-the-ira-i-have-never-disassociated-myself-from-the-ira-and-never-will-until-the-day-i-die-38093014.html

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Probably should have changed account there pal

Rather than edit the post i just quoted myself.

Brendan Bendar

“Breaking things” seems to be a bit of a catchphrase amongst certain circles....uuuuhn

Specially down in the sunny south East.

jh79

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Anyone,who believes this,

PM me,ive some magic beans for sale

What account do you think is my sock puppet?

jm08

downcow wrote: »

Francie Malloy seems a tad upset (and honest)

Yes. And we know why.

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Gerry told us what we are dealing with
“They haven’t gone away, you know”
“We will use equality as a Trojan horse”
“We will break the bastards”
“Sinn Fein volunteers worked hard to carry on the struggle through setting up residents groups to oppose unionist parades”
“I was never in the ira” haha

Like I said...the siege mentality is strongest in those who feel they lost something. And you did lose and are still losing and will continue to lose because you hanker after the sectarian statelet you controlled. Again, your own government had to go above your wee heads to deliver rights to all of the people.

downcow

jm08 wrote: »

Well, I don't think they had gone away in 1995 when he made that comment.
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/ira-has-not-gone-away-adams-warns-ministers-ira-has-not-gone-away-1596152.html




The 'bastards' Adams was referring to were bigots and homophobes (which unionism is riddle with but Gregory Campbell in particular here) and they were the ones equality would break.


Full quote (read the link for full story) https://www.impartialreporter.com/news/13868873.gerry-adams-on-bigotry-in-unionism-the-point-is-to-break-these-brds/



So, DC, are you afraid of equality?


Not sure what your objection is to this is. Civil rights and all that.




Who cares if he was or he wasn't? Facts are he was interned twice and was never charged with being a member of the PIRA.
https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/gerry-adams-i-was-not-a-member-of-the-ira-i-have-never-disassociated-myself-from-the-ira-and-never-will-until-the-day-i-die-38093014.html

I don't know how to do the fancy quotes so I can just list my answers.

It is a bit simplistic to say that it was set in 1995. Here is Gerry's IRA boss saying it 20 years later in front of Gerry.s mural https://bostoncollegesubpoena.wordpress.com/2014/05/12/bobby-storey-martin-mcguinness-at-adams-arrestsinn-fein-election-rally-west-belfast/

.... And you think this is okay to say. "equality...... - that’s the trojan horse of the entire republican strategy.”

You say it does not matter whether jury was in the IRA not. If Boris had been a paratrooper on bloody Sunday, would you say that was irrelevant when he was making decisions Northern Ireland?

downcow

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Like I said...the siege mentality is strongest in those who feel they lost something. And you did lose and are still losing and will continue to lose because you hanker after the sectarian statelet you controlled. Again, your own government had to go above your wee heads to deliver rights to all of the people.

Wishful thinking
I was listening to David Trimble interviewed after John Hume's death- you can pick it up on Nolan on the day of his death on BBC iPlayer.
Nolan was affirming John Hume for bringing Sinn Fein along.
Trimble said he disagreed and was incredibly clear of two things in response.
1) Sinn Fein had exploited John Hume
2) Sinn Fein and the IRA had reached a point of realising that they could not achieve their ends. He said they were so heavily infiltrated that the vast majority of their cells could not operate.
Yes of course I know you will say they pulled off a spectacular in Manchester and maybe one or two others, but it was over, they were defeated, Manchester was the final kicks of a dying ruthless animal.
Everyone, except a few old Republicans in dingy bars with several pints taken, realise that they were defeated. They used the John Hume initiative to try and save a little face.

You can say as many times as you like that the Unionists lost, but we have got absolutely everything that we had 25 years ago, and you have got absolutely nothing that you and the IRA aspired towards.

Yes you can continue to aspire, and try to lift your self esteem, by trying to convince yourselves that you were in control the process. John Hume was very intelligent and realised that you were defeated but that you needed some sort of face-saving exercise. He didn't get you very much but then he didn't need to because beggars cannot be choosers

FrancieBrady

downcow wrote: »

Wishful thinking
I was listening to David Trimble interviewed after John Hume's death- you can pick it up on Nolan on the day of his death on BBC iPlayer.
Nolan was affirming John Hume for bringing Sinn Fein along.
Trimble said he disagreed and was incredibly clear of two things in response.
1) Sinn Fein had exploited John Hume
2) Sinn Fein and the IRA had reached a point of realising that they could not achieve their ends. He said they were so heavily infiltrated that the vast majority of their cells could not operate.
Yes of course I know you will say they pulled off a spectacular in Manchester and maybe one or two others, but it was over, they were defeated, Manchester was the final kicks of a dying ruthless animal.
Everyone, except a few old Republicans in dingy bars with several pints taken, realise that they were defeated. They used the John Hume initiative to try and save a little face.

You can say as many times as you like that the Unionists lost, but we have got absolutely everything that we had 25 years ago, and you have got absolutely nothing that you and the IRA aspired towards.

Yes you can continue to aspire, and try to lift your self esteem, by trying to convince yourselves that you were in control the process. John Hume was very intelligent and realised that you were defeated but that you needed some sort of face-saving exercise. He didn't get you very much but then he didn't need to because beggars cannot be choosers

The IRA that was so heavily infiltrated it was defeated argument, when it suits, and the IRA that is still operating and pulling the strings in Sinn Fein when that argument suits.

Do us a favour downcow...convene a meeting of Unionists and get the story straight will you...it has long since become a stale pivot point for a weak weak argument. Trimble trotting it out is just pathetic.