Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

stephenjmcd

Sooner or later both Aerlingus and Ryanair will come looking for state aid seeing as its the state that is essentially putting them under pressure with travel restrictions

Arghus

His articles are usually quite fair and thoughtful, but, Jesus, Paul Cullen is painful to listen to.

CruelSummer

CruelSummer wrote: »

It won’t be a relocation, they already have multiple locations throughout the world and are going to downsize Ireland. Do you know the company in question? Interesting that you mention South Africa, that’s why I’m asking.

You mentioned SA in your op.

MickeyLeari

Listening to MM, it seems the only green countries will be those with the same or less incidence of cases.

caveat emptor

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Unlike Lufthansa Ryanair didnt get any 10bn bailout though?

I appreciate some or most of Ryanair's staff might very well be getting 350 per week but in terms of huge state subsidies, in Ireland anyways its not really huge in comparison to Germany/France where they gave out 10bn to Lufthansa, 10bn to Airfrance AND all their staff got subsidies wages by the govt.

PS I do not propose we do this. Our deficit will skyrocket to 40-50bn then for the year

Yeah but they have taken money from UK?

Ireland-based Ryanair has received £600m (about $730 million) from the United Kingdom’s Covid Corporate Financing Facility (CCFF). This move comes as the low-cost carrier’s CEO has been critical of state aid to airlines.

https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-730-million-loan/

gral6

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Listening to MM, it seems the only green countries will be those with the same or less incidence of cases.

Great ! We'll be flying to New Zealand and North Corea ! What a wise government!

CruelSummer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

You mentioned SA in your op.

Ah yes I see I did.

ronivek

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ah yes I see I did.

Still haven't managed to name the IT company though?

caveat emptor

caveat emptor wrote: »

Yeah but they have taken money from UK?



https://simpleflying.com/ryanair-730-million-loan/

For someone that is banging on about illegal state aid, they’ve taken on quite a lot of cheap money. Their balance sheet vs burn down is quite strong. 4.7 billion vs 65 million.

Find it hard to countenance them not giving refunds to people when they are in such a strong position. It seems they don’t want to errode that ratio for fear of impacting the share price.

They should help the government in Europe with contact tracing data to make it safer to stop spreading events instead of trying to get people to go against gov advice.

CruelSummer

caveat emptor wrote: »

For someone that is banging on about illegal state aid, they’ve taken on quite a lot of cheap money. Their balance sheet vs burn down is quite strong. 4.7 billion vs 65 million.

Find it hard to countenance them not giving refunds to people when they are in such a strong position. It seems they don’t want to errode that ratio for fear of impacting the share price.

They should help the government in Europe with contact tracing data to make it safer to stop spreading events instead of trying to get people to go against gov advice.

True it’s a good idea to get the airlines to help with contact tracing. I heard Michael O’Leary on the radio a few weeks back making that suggestion saying they could have the information to the relevant authorities within an hour.

stephenjmcd

Staff in Shannon facing paycuts, layoffs and voluntary severance scheme

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0707/1151820-shannon-airport/

tobefrank321

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Staff in Shannon facing paycuts, layoffs and voluntary severance scheme

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0707/1151820-shannon-airport/

Unfortunate but if we go into another generalised lockdown due to a spike related to imported cases, these lay offs will seem like small fry. We have to protect as much of the general economy as possible.

Charles Babbage

CruelSummer wrote: »

I would say to families who've paid thousands on their holidays to look at the information to hand and go if the destination is safe re Covid cases. The Government don't care if your money is gone as they're allowing Ryanair to still fly. They've effectively made no decisions, sounded absolutely useless, and clearly are not fit for the offices they occupy.

Over on the Spain thread today, at least of 2 thirds of the Cork - Alicante flight today were people over 60... the very cohort we're supposed to stay home and protect. Couple this with allowing US and U.K. citizens in here no bother, with just form filling and friendly phone call they they might choose not to answer. WHAT A JOKE.

Those people over 60 will likely spend their time in Spain in their own properties, they will not be down in the pub mingling with all sorts. Because they are probably fairly careful themselves they are not the biggest threat in terms of bringing it back, unlike the class of loudmouth yob that plans to get scuttered every night and exchange body fluids with randomers.

As for people spending money, they have spent the money whether they go or not, so they have the same "loss" either way.

FintanMcluskey

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Those people over 60 will likely spend their time in Spain in their own properties, they will not be down in the pub mingling with all sorts. Because they are probably fairly careful themselves they are not the biggest threat in terms of bringing it back, unlike the class of loudmouth yob that plans to get scuttered every night and exchange body fluids with randomers.

As for people spending money, they have spent the money whether they go or not, so they have the same "loss" either way.

It appears Covid has given power to a new movement in Ireland, a kind of anti socialising movement.

One where seeking company and entertainment is completely unjustified unless you are above 60.

Young person, at negligible risk from Covid wants to travel= Drunken scumbag, wont protect the elderly

Old dear, high risk from Covid = get on the plane, your well entitled.

Stay home save lives my bol#ix. Utter hyprocracy

charlie14

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Staff in Shannon facing paycuts, layoffs and voluntary severance scheme

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0707/1151820-shannon-airport/

Even before Covid-19, when was it any different in Shannon.
That news headline could be from any year going as far back as I can remember.

CruelSummer

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Those people over 60 will likely spend their time in Spain in their own properties, they will not be down in the pub mingling with all sorts. Because they are probably fairly careful themselves they are not the biggest threat in terms of bringing it back, unlike the class of loudmouth yob that plans to get scuttered every night and exchange body fluids with randomers.

As for people spending money, they have spent the money whether they go or not, so they have the same "loss" either way.

So...it's ok for over 60's to travel, the very group of people we're supposed to be protecting, because they're rich enough to own properties on the Med...
Meanwhile middle class families who may have rented out or indeed own a similar property cannot travel as they're all under 60 and therefore 'drunken yobs'?

And absolutely NO, it is not the same 'loss'.
Option One - you get to to the Mediterranean on your holidays to the sun.
Option Two - you get to look at all of Europe going to the Med on their holidays while you can't even pay the rip off Staycation prices as your money is in a non-existent holiday and your plane left without you on it.

CruelSummer

charlie14 wrote: »

Even before Covid-19, when was it any different in Shannon.
That news headline could be from any year going as far back as I can remember.

Ah here, it just might have something to do with the fact that Airports were expecting a more organised and coherent response from Government to travel this summer. They saw airlines were allowed to resume travel from the beginning of July and borders reopen. Staff were probably kept on for this reason. However the anti-travel - we're a Green Utopia brigade went into full swing to try and convince hard pressed families to flush their already paid for holidays down the toilet, which would then curb new bookings. Cue many more layoffs over the summer, some of which could have been avoided if the Government had a clue.

CruelSummer

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0707/1151855-schools-holidays-abroad/

The propaganda campaign continues...exactly why would it matter to school principals if the families were back well before schools reopened and had completed the 2 week quarantine?
What about many pupils and families that need to travel to see family now over the summer before schools restarts? Many of whom would have been worried about their relatives during the pandemic.
Why can schools reopen across the EU and their families can travel to other EU locations & ours cannot? We are some bunch of sheep here accepting this ‘Don’t you dare go abroad and have a good time’ finger wagging...

road_high

CruelSummer wrote: »

Ah here, it just might have something to do with the fact that Airports were expecting a more organised and coherent response from Government to travel this summer. They saw airlines were allowed to resume travel from the beginning of July and borders reopen. Staff were probably kept on for this reason. However the anti-travel - we're a Green Utopia brigade went into full swing to try and convince hard pressed families to flush their already paid for holidays down the toilet, which would then curb new bookings. Cue many more layoffs over the summer, some of which could have been avoided if the Government had a clue.

Hear hear. Week or two in I’m deeply unimpressed with the new Taoiseach- for reasons unknown I expected him to grasp the Covid nonsense by the horns and lead - instead i hear nothing but a bit of hollow threatening and hiding behind what the last govt had done and deciding to go no further/ride it out and hope things don’t get worse.
The travel and aviation sectors are key sectors of our economy. They can’t be just swept under the carpet fir months on end. Our domestic market is very small and is no way big enough to sustain the tourism sector whatsoever

road_high

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0707/1151855-schools-holidays-abroad/

The propaganda campaign continues...exactly why would it matter to school principals if the families were back well before schools reopened and had completed the 2 week quarantine?
What about many pupils and families that need to travel to see family now over the summer before schools restarts? Many of whom would have been worried about their relatives during the pandemic.
Why can schools reopen across the EU and their families can travel to other EU locations & ours cannot? We are some bunch of sheep here accepting this ‘Don’t you dare go abroad and have a good time’ finger wagging...

Foreign travel is the new 5/20 km moral shaming rubbish that we endured for months

FintanMcluskey

road_high wrote: »

Hear hear. Week or two in I’m deeply unimpressed with the new Taoiseach- for reasons unknown I expected him to grasp the Covid nonsense by the horns and lead - instead i hear nothing but a bit of hollow threatening and hiding behind what the last govt had done and deciding to go no further/ride it out and hope things don’t get worse.
The travel and aviation sectors are key sectors of our economy. They can’t be just swept under the carpet fir months on end. Our domestic market is very small and is no way big enough to sustain the tourism sector whatsoever

I've said it before, Leo was not the biggest issue during the crisis, he didnt lead, but he did stray from the official line so to speak.

The pics of him enjoying the few beers in the park actually showed that he is a human and its ok to live.

MM has robotic tendencies, and has displayed no leadership this far, but the budget will call for leadership I imagine.

SusieBlue

Just saw a petition being shared on FB calling for the under 60’s to all cocoon for the second wave of coronavirus, to allow the elderly a chance to have some bit of normality because they had to cocoon last time, and the younger people have to take their turn at ur now.
The risk for the elderly will be way lower if all the young people are cocooning, so they’ll be able to go out for dinner etc without too much risk.

Logic seems to be gone out the window.

fm

road_high wrote: »

Foreign travel is the new 5/20 km moral shaming rubbish that we endured for months

Blackmail now, schools can't open if people go on holiday

Emmersonn

fm wrote: »

Blackmail now, schools can't open if people go on holiday

No difference whatever between Irish people going on holidays and returning home and foreign tourists holidaying in Ireland.

facehugger99

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0707/1151855-schools-holidays-abroad/

The propaganda campaign continues...exactly why would it matter to school principals if the families were back well before schools reopened and had completed the 2 week quarantine?
What about many pupils and families that need to travel to see family now over the summer before schools restarts? Many of whom would have been worried about their relatives during the pandemic.
Why can schools reopen across the EU and their families can travel to other EU locations & ours cannot? We are some bunch of sheep here accepting this ‘Don’t you dare go abroad and have a good time’ finger wagging...

What a load of bollox - the sad thing is this unrelenting campaign of hysteria by our national broadcaster' barely raises an eyebrow with me these days.

It's hard to adequately describe the amount of fcuks I don't give to what my kid's school principal thinks of my holiday plans, but let's just say it's a very large number.

Unfortunately there's probably a load of people who this extended guilt-trip is working on

fm

Emmersonn wrote: »

No difference whatever between Irish people going on holidays and returning home and foreign tourists holidaying in Ireland.

I agree

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

We are some bunch of sheep here accepting this ‘Don’t you dare go abroad and have a good time’ finger wagging...

The fact that there isn't more of an outcry about this demonstrates that the vast majority of the public continue to support the restrictions.

facehugger99

road_high wrote: »

Hear hear. Week or two in I’m deeply unimpressed with the new Taoiseach- for reasons unknown I expected him to grasp the Covid nonsense by the horns and lead - instead i hear nothing but a bit of hollow threatening and hiding behind what the last govt had done and deciding to go no further/ride it out and hope things don’t get worse.
The travel and aviation sectors are key sectors of our economy. They can’t be just swept under the carpet fir months on end. Our domestic market is very small and is no way big enough to sustain the tourism sector whatsoever

The sad fact is that the political class of today would rather flush billions of euros and thousands of jobs down the toilet than risk being branded a granny-killer on social media.

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

The sad fact is that the political class of today would rather flush billions of euros and thousands of jobs down the toilet than risk being branded a granny-killer on social media.

The most expensive PC exercise ever undertaken

FishOnABike

TaurenDruid wrote: »

Do you not think this is the perfect opportunity for the school to go "Look, lads, work away on the confirmation yourselves if yiz want, but we're a school, and the kids have lost out on enough education without us also doing the indoctrination for ye. Organise something yourselves on your own time."

Grand unless the church owns the building + grounds the school is in, the patron is the local bishop, the local parish priest is a member on the board of management and the board is appointed by the patron. Hardly likely to be a hotbed of dissent.

CruelSummer

What I cannot understand is how would any Principal even have had ‘foreign travel’ on his agenda today.
Here are a few issues that should have been top of his list:
1. Increased funding for education sector as a matter of urgency to support smaller class sizes particularly in developing schools and those with class numbers over 30.
2. Sanitary procedures for schools.
3. Immunocompromised teachers and what protections they might be afforded.
4. PPE equipment.
5. Projections of how children will mix and in groups/classes of how many.
6. Staff room procedures.
7. Covid 19 cases in schools - procedures to follow
8. Test and trace - are teachers needed to help re classroom and school environment.
9. Are extra prefabs needed to support smaller class numbers in certain schools - they would need to be built as a matter of urgency.
10. Is there a programme being developed to help children process what happened re the lockdown, being told you could kill Granny or Grandad if you hugged them, ‘no children allowed’ signs at shops and all the other emotional trauma that was lumped on them unfairly during this crisis.

There are so so many issues, and he chose to ramble on about planes and holidays...

caveat emptor

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I've said it before, Leo was not the biggest issue during the crisis, he didnt lead, but he did stray from the official line so to speak.

The pics of him enjoying the few beers in the park actually showed that he is a human and its ok to live.

MM has robotic tendencies, and has displayed no leadership this far, but the budget will call for leadership I imagine.

Money is cheap......

We constantly remortgage year after year. With rates being what they are it's likely going to cost less than the year before. Issue a hundred year bond like Austria. It'll be inflated away in no time.



https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/parliamentaryBudgetOffice/2020/2020-04-21_national-debt-an-overview_en.pdf

Merry_Hell

CruelSummer wrote: »

What I cannot understand is how would any Principal even had ‘foreign travel’ on his agenda today.
Here are a few issues that should have been top of his list:
1. Increased funding for education sector as a matter of urgency to support smaller class sizes particularly in developing schools and those with class numbers over 30.
2. Sanitary procedures for schools.
3. Immunocompromised teachers and what protections they might be afforded.
4. PPE equipment.
5. Projections of how children will mix and in groups/classes of how many.
6. Staff room procedures.
7. Covid 19 cases in schools - procedures to follow
8. Test and trace - are teachers needed to help re classroom and school environment.
9. Are extra prefabs needed to support smaller class numbers in certain schools - they would need to be built as a matter of urgency.
10. Is there a programme being developed to help children process what happened re the lockdown, being told you could kill Granny or Grandad if you hugged them, ‘no children allowed’ signs at shops and all the other emotional trauma that was lumped on them unfairly during this crisis.

There are so so many issues, and he chose to ramble on about planes and holidays...

To be fair, when you read the article it does appear that it was a passing comment and a tiny fraction of what he spoke about. Can't figure out why the reporters would pounce on it and make it the headline of their subsequent articles.

LilyShame

This is such utter nonsense. I doubt principles give a toss where anyone goes on holidays. RTE running agendas again. Absolute nonsense!! I'm sure some principles will be on that plane to the Sun!!

GOVT have handled this really poorly and if anything it will encourage those who fully paid for a holiday, pre covid, to simply fly regardless.

facehugger99 wrote: »

What a load of bollox - the sad thing is this unrelenting campaign of hysteria by our national broadcaster' barely raises an eyebrow with me these days.

It's hard to adequately describe the amount of fcuks I don't give to what my kid's school principal thinks of my holiday plans, but let's just say it's a very large number.

Unfortunately there's probably a load of people who this extended guilt-trip is working on

Spanish Eyes

I don't know what the problem is or why all the angst TBH. People can travel where the flights are going, the so called quarantine on return is not monitored.

The Green Lane thing is just a guide. So if you want to go, go. Nothing to stop you really.

Insurance is the only issue I can see, or irresponsibility, or selfishness, or finger pointing whatever. You decide. If you are willing to go, just fekkin go now and shut the F up already. I'm sick listening to people moaning.

CruelSummer

Merry_Hell wrote: »

To be fair, when you read the article it does appear that it was a passing comment and a tiny fraction of what he spoke about. Can't figure out why the reporters would pounce on it and make it the headline of their subsequent articles.

Yes it does appear to be driven by RTÉ using it as their main headline & extract on the news. News report I watched didn't mention the other major issues but glad to hear they were at least discussed.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Can we all snap out of this social distancing, post lockdown mentality and just go back to normal.

3 months ago fair enough but we know the virus is not that bad. Will we now lock down every year for flu season?

Annasopra

I think you've missed the point completely. Its not as bad as it could have been because the country social distanced and locked down. Its not a minir flu.

Beasty

Threads merged

v638sg7k1a92bx

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

I think you've missed the point completely. Its not as bad as it could have been because the country social distanced and locked down. Its not a minir flu.

The virus has moved on.

3 months ago when people should have been wearing masks and everyone suddenly needed their 2km.

It’s ridiculous at this stage we need to open up.

Quantum Erasure

It hasn't gone away you know

MickeyLeari

Interesting in the Irish times from Miriam Lord on the madness of the new Docklands Dail -

What’s so special about us? Look at the way they have been successfully operating in shops and supermarkets,” fumed one TD privately.

“If the level of restrictions imposed on us in Leinster House is so critically important, why then are people not dropping like flies in Supervalu and Lidl? Society is starting to function again and the Oireachtas needs to get with the programme.”

hmmm

Braylen Short Tumbleweed wrote: »

3 months ago fair enough but we know the virus is not that bad. Will we now lock down every year for flu season?

Of course this is not flu.

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/health-family/warning-of-serious-brain-disorders-in-people-with-mild-coronavirus-symptoms-1.4299112

YellowBucket

Not that I'm much a fan of the place, and I would prefer to support independent coffee shops, but I was just wondering what's going on with Costa Ireland?

They're the only convenient coffee place near where I work usually and they're not open. The store looks completely abandoned with a big sign up just saying it's closed and there's no cash on premises. Their social media feeds look to have stopped posting several weeks ago too, but the UK stores are definitely all up and running.

It just seems odd given a lot of their suburban / business park stores are pretty big spaces and could definitely handle socially distanced tables without much fuss. I think the one near where I work was even 2m+ between tables long before any of this ever happened.

Seems to be a lot of UK retailers going bang here.

MickeyLeari

Beasty wrote: »

Threads merged

Did posts disappear or was this thread quiet for 24 hours?

Goldengirl

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Did posts disappear or was this thread quiet for 24 hours?

Don't know what thread it was merged with?

Nothing for 24 hours when I checked earlier, and for a while before that just echoes and ..tumbleweed..

Penfailed

Braylen Short Tumbleweed wrote: »

It’s ridiculous at this stage we need to open up.

Almost everything has opened up.

Penfailed

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Did posts disappear or was this thread quiet for 24 hours?

It was just quiet for a day or so. Restrictions have been eased so much that there's little to complain about I suppose. Although someone started a thread claiming that social distancing should also stop and his thread was merged with this one. The most vociferous anti lockdown posters in this thread haven't even gone that far...yet!

Hector Savage

Braylen Short Tumbleweed wrote: »

The virus has moved on.

3 months ago when people should have been wearing masks and everyone suddenly needed their 2km.

It’s ridiculous at this stage we need to open up.

Don't you live in Spain ? you see what's happening in Lleida ?
New epicentre, we will be back at lockdown on national level in a matter of weeks..

Penfailed

Hector Savage wrote: »

New epicentre, we will be back at lockdown on national level in a matter of weeks..

I don't think that's going to happen.