Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Golf is my Game

Golf is my Game wrote: »

No,then we have to keep that it is only a tiny death rate by paying the price of doing without nonessential parts of life even if we like them that add high risk like closing pubs completely or keeping it only for the nine euro food thing, only for over 65s, or maybe a rationing system for it. If theres no vacine then somethings gotta give give like the Jack Nickolson movie and there no point kidding ourselves that we can have everything we did have and say sure live has to go on. The the death rate wont be tiny and youl be sorry. So pubs never opening again like we used to know them is a real possibility and we shouldnt dismiss that. Same for nightclubs, cinemas, big crows and the football and whatever.

The virus destroying our way of life would be more tragic than actual deaths.

That’s never going to happen though.

Arghus

Arghus wrote: »

The death rate is only part of it.

A bigger problem is how infectious it is and how easily outbreaks can get out of hand, with the potential to overwhelm your health system.

Maybe 90-95% of people won't need hospital treatment, but that remaining 10-5% could all need it simultaneously, or near enough to that. And it has the potential to infect a lot of people quickly. It's very easy to lose control of the situation.

And then it has other knock on effects. People who would otherwise survive, don't make it because they can't get access to treatment, people die of other causes because the health system can't cope with the excess burden.

That's why governments are so scared, because outbreaks can get out of control quickly and easily, like what's happening right now in many parts of the US.

Everyone hopes that a vaccine or an effective treatment comes along sooner rather than later because then the endgame is a lot less clear. There isn't really an easy way out otherwise.

Actually agree with most of this.

But we need more information on the vaccine soon. Most people have written this year off already.

But if we reach New Year’s Eve and head into 2021 with no further info on a vaccine, there will be a lot of unrest.

Golf is my Game

Deleted User wrote: »

The virus destroying our way of life would be more tragic than actual deaths.

That’s never going to happen though.

It only destroys your way of life if it kills you otherwise it only changes your way of life which everyone will agree is better. Do you want to volunteer for death so that the rest of us can go to the pub and live like we did before. You wont see many hands up. So things are going to stay changed one way are another and i for one would rather see them changed in the stuff we cant do anymore like we used than take a lottery ticket for death.

Arghus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Actually agree with most of this.

But we need more information on the vaccine soon. Most people have written this year off already.

But if we reach New Year’s Eve and head into 2021 with no further info on a vaccine, there will be a lot of unrest.

Things do seem to be moving on a little on the vaccine front. I think a further five were announced to be ready to go to phase three testing today.

A lot of knowledgeable posters post in the specific vaccine thread, lots of information in there.

Early signs seem to be encouraging, but things are still a long way off, it's a mammoth undertaking. And distributing a potential vaccine is another mammoth task again. As much as we all want news about it and work is going on at pace, there's just much of the whole process that is going to take time. And, unfortunately, it still isn't guaranteed. At the moment, that isn't something people want to think about. Can't say that I blame them really.

Another hope is that as more and more is discovered about the virus - and an awful lot has been learned in a very short time - there'll be better strategies in how to defend against it and fight it. But a certain level of disruption to our lives is inevitable for the foreseeable.

Dickie10

i can see the older people having to coccoon while therest get on with life from august 10th. my local is opening next monday with only token food menu. chipper across the road stuff and big pot of curry and stew on go. The local Gardai have been in and gave it their blessing. told them to keep strict opening hours i think there asking place cleared by 12:30 friday and saturday nights and 11 weeknights. just told them play the game as there will be plenty trying to get them shutdown by taking sneaky videos while on premises.

Charles Babbage

Dickie10 wrote: »

i can see the older people having to coccoon while therest get on with life from august 10th. my local is opening next monday with only token food menu. chipper across the road stuff and big pot of curry and stew on go. The local Gardai have been in and gave it their blessing. told them to keep strict opening hours i think there asking place cleared by 12:30 friday and saturday nights and 11 weeknights. just told them play the game as there will be plenty trying to get them shutdown by taking sneaky videos while on premises.

Where is it? We might like to check that they are still serving food at 10:30, there are many scofflaws out there.

Dickie10

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Where is it? We might like to check that they are still serving food at 10:30, there are many scofflaws out there.

whos WE?

Dickie10

i suppose like any restaurnt there drinking up time, prob have finger food from 10 pm, if plates are on tables whos to know how long the food is eaten. anyway the Gardai told them they wont be bothering them unless there called so make sure there not called. i think the seargent is a referree hes only knew on the scene but the local club got him to ref a few games already and the publican git in with him through that. to be honest there wont be any problems rural village there would be max 8 during week maybe max 20 people at weekends. loads of room too.should be open 3 weeks

Charles Babbage

Dickie10 wrote: »

whos WE?

The responsible law-abiding people of Ireland.

UDAWINNER

Penfailed wrote: »

Pubs in the north have been given an indicative date of the 10th of August for reopening (depending on the prevailing Covid situation).

i was under the impression thet they wre open already, was i wrong?

Penfailed

UDAWINNER wrote: »

i was under the impression thet they wre open already, was i wrong?

Only pubs serving food are open at the minute.

Just came up in conversation yesterday between a few of us and nobody knew the answer. I know that 10 people can meet in a house from 4 households but is there a time limit or can people sleep over? I wouldn’t anyway but I’ve asked a few people since and nobody seems to know either.

robbiezero

Dickie10 wrote: »

i can see the older people having to coccoon while therest get on with life from august 10th. my local is opening next monday with only token food menu. chipper across the road stuff and big pot of curry and stew on go. The local Gardai have been in and gave it their blessing. told them to keep strict opening hours i think there asking place cleared by 12:30 friday and saturday nights and 11 weeknights. just told them play the game as there will be plenty trying to get them shutdown by taking sneaky videos while on premises.

I can see this happening more and more and know of a few places that are just paying lip service to the rules using the local takeaway menu.
They can't rely on the clown car of a Government to allow them to open anytime soon.
Good luck to them.

yosemitesam1

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Just came up in conversation yesterday between a few of us and nobody knew the answer. I know that 10 people can meet in a house from 4 households but is there a time limit or can people sleep over? I wouldn’t anyway but I’ve asked a few people since and nobody seems to know either.

They mentioned on the news the other night that there's not actually any law regarding that so you can do whatever you like

Jackman25

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Just came up in conversation yesterday between a few of us and nobody knew the answer. I know that 10 people can meet in a house from 4 households but is there a time limit or can people sleep over? I wouldn’t anyway but I’ve asked a few people since and nobody seems to know either.

If you're not going to do it, why do you care?

is_that_so

Penfailed wrote: »

So he didn't do an excellent job then?

Some of what he said was very good on the health side, some of it was quite alarmist and the predictions, well ...

facehugger99

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

Just came up in conversation yesterday between a few of us and nobody knew the answer. I know that 10 people can meet in a house from 4 households but is there a time limit or can people sleep over? I wouldn’t anyway but I’ve asked a few people since and nobody seems to know either.

You can ride each other senseless for an hour and 45 minutes as long as ye have a toasted cheese sandwich at some point.

bucketybuck

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There seems to be a lot of anger and all that on this thread.

I cannot understand it, we have done very well. A lot of things are open again now. It must be the pubs issue so.

But whingers will whinge. No matter what.

Another example of somebody who likely hasn't really been affected by any of the measures not bothering to understand why those who have might be angry.

"I haven't lost my job, my education, my social life or all my future prospects so what are you all whinging about? Must be the pubs."

FintanMcluskey

facehugger99 wrote: »

You can ride each other senseless for an hour and 45 minutes as long as ye have a toasted cheese sandwich at some point.

Does the sandwich come with mayonnaise?

hamburgham

Good letter in the Irish Times today about the standoff between the Dept. of Justice and the Dept. of Heath with regard to who should be doing the stupid follow up calls checking incoming travellers’ whereabouts. It's worth reading. Apparently the Border/Immigration people had to focus on their “core immigration duties” so weren’t in a position to make the calls. This is despite the airports being comparatively empty. What on earth have all these public servants on full pay been doing?

Really feeling for all involved in the airline industry. To reassure people, procedures could be put in place at the airports etc but govt know they couldn’t in practice roll them out because of obstructiveness and incompetence so instead a whole industry and thousands of private sector employees are being absolutely hammered.

Greece is now accepting flights from all EU countries including UK and Sweden. I’m listing below their arrival protocols, not a joke like ours where departments are fighting over who should make telephone calls. There, the PS has adapted to ensure the tourism industry can continue. Here, this would be an affront to the unions who never seem to make the connection that the private sector fund them and why should they do anything to help anyway, another 2% on the way for nothing. Disgusting.

Can you imagine our crowd trying to roll out this, don’t laugh.
(Sorry for long post)

Arrival protocols in Greece
The Passenger Locator Form (PLF) is a key element in the planning. All travelers must complete their PLF until the day before entering the country, providing detailed information on their point of departure, the duration of previous stays in other countries, and the address of their stay while in Greece. In case of multiple stays, they are required to provide the address for the first 24 hours at least.
• Travelers will receive a confirmation email upon submission of the PLF.
• Travelers will receive the PLF with their unique Quick Response (QR) code on the day of their scheduled arrival in Greece (at midnight) and will be notified via email (the QR code will be provided in a link in the confirmation email).
• Travelers boarding or embarking on the previous day of the arrival will be allowed to do so upon showing the confirmation email, since they will receive their QR code during their flight or voyage.

• • Arrival at the entry gate.
• • Transfer to the area where the screening personnel are located. Travelers are requested to show their QR code either on their mobile phone screen or in print. If travel departure begins prior to the day of arrival, travelers are allowed to board after showing the confirmation email (and not necessarily the QR code which is scheduled to arrive during their trip.)
• • Depending on their QR code/confirmation, travelers are directed either to the screening area where they will be tested for the new coronavirus SARS-CoV-2 by a trained health team or to the exit (to baggage claim area or passport control).
• • Upon completion of the test, travelers are directed towards the exit (to baggage claim area or passport control).

• • The test results are expected to become available within 24 hours. During that time, passengers who are tested are advised to practise social distancing according to local guidelines and self monitoring for symptoms that could indicate COVID-19. In case of such symptoms, medical advice and/or contact with the National Public Health Organization (EODY) Operations Centre should be immediately sought. Only in case they test positive, the authorities will contact them and proceed with the health protocol in place. Otherwise, they may continue with their holidays, adhering to the general public health safety guidelines.

Almost every step in how we have handled this has been a complete farce...

The 2KM, 5KM, 20KM travel restriction was completely ridiculous. Hardly any other country in the world bothered with something as pedantic as this was.

The homeware industry getting ready to reopen only to be forced to remain closed due to a typo and then Simon Harris laughing over the confusion as if it was a big joke.

The CMO repeatedly telling us that curve was flattened but the numbers were not were we needed them to be. Despite him never given us the figure that we did need. (Which in hindsight appears to be 0)

The quarantine for people travelling to Ireland. Fill in a form and pinky promise to quarantine for 2 weeks. We might give you a call to check on you. But figures suggest that the call pretty much never happens.

The pubs... you'll be grand going the pub if you order a 9 euro meal and only stay for 105 mins.

House Party Advice - You should only have a maximum of 10 guests from no more than 4 households. Completely unenforceable.

The Green List - We don't want you to travel but if you must, go to these places. And you can go to pubs or do as you please there. Just not here.

The Masks - Back when we had 1000 cases a day they were saying the masks wouldn't help. With less than 20 cases a day it is now going to be mandatory to wear one in shops for the whole country. Even counties that little or no Covid.

The schools - The government and NPHET might want the schools to reopen. But it is against their very own public health advise. They won't stand in the Dail together but expect teachers and kids to be chucked into classes together.


I have absolutely zero confidence in the schools reopening in September. The writing is already on the wall.
I have very little confidence that pubs will reopen in August. Not sure what the excuse will be this time.
I have no confidence that we have any plan B lined up, if a vaccine is not coming soon.
I have no confidence that they'll do what is right for the economy.

Very grim situation to be in.

hamburgham

To add to the farce, don't forget setting up the emergency army tents to do the 'tests', as though a swab was a "test" and not thinking through whether there was the lab capacity to perform the actual test. That was a real marker for me of Simon Harris' lack of experience but the optics were good.

Also, the Leaving Cert results such as they are, being released later than usual despite the fact there were no exams to be marked.

Multipass

hamburgham wrote: »

Also, the Leaving Cert results such as they are, being released later than usual despite the fact there were no exams to be marked.

It’s a deliberate tactic to make appeals more difficult.

caveat emptor

Deleted User wrote: »

Almost every step in how we have handled this has been a complete farce...

The 2KM, 5KM, 20KM travel restriction was completely ridiculous. Hardly any other country in the world bothered with something as pedantic as this was.

The homeware industry getting ready to reopen only to be forced to remain closed due to a typo and then Simon Harris laughing over the confusion as if it was a big joke.

The CMO repeatedly telling us that curve was flattened but the numbers were not were we needed them to be. Despite him never given us the figure that we did need. (Which in hindsight appears to be 0)

The quarantine for people travelling to Ireland. Fill in a form and pinky promise to quarantine for 2 weeks. We might give you a call to check on you. But figures suggest that the call pretty much never happens.

The pubs... you'll be grand going the pub if you order a 9 euro meal and only stay for 105 mins.

House Party Advice - You should only have a maximum of 10 guests from no more than 4 households. Completely unenforceable.

The Green List - We don't want you to travel but if you must, go to these places. And you can go to pubs or do as you please there. Just not here.

The Masks - Back when we had 1000 cases a day they were saying the masks wouldn't help. With less than 20 cases a day it is now going to be mandatory to wear one in shops for the whole country. Even counties that little or no Covid.

The schools - The government and NPHET might want the schools to reopen. But it is against their very own public health advise. They won't stand in the Dail together but expect teachers and kids to be chucked into classes together.


I have absolutely zero confidence in the schools reopening in September. The writing is already on the wall.
I have very little confidence that pubs will reopen in August. Not sure what the excuse will be this time.
I have no confidence that we have any plan B lined up, if a vaccine is not coming soon.
I have no confidence that they'll do what is right for the economy.

Very grim situation to be in.

Good summary.

Charles Babbage

Deleted User wrote: »

The 2KM, 5KM, 20KM travel restriction was completely ridiculous. Hardly any other country in the world bothered with something as pedantic as this was.
.

Not true. In many European countries you could only go 500m and you had to fill in a form beforehand.

It is easy to rant if you do not bother with facts.

hamburgham

Going to miss Ivan, has just started his last show.

thelad95

Everything the government has done has largely been reactionary instead of looking at things with a pro-active sensible approach.

The approach taken by Greece is common sense and really would not be expensive in implementing, we already have a large testing capacity that's going unused, no chance of them re-directing this capacity to the airport, literally the riskiest place in a pandemic?

Charles Babbage

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Not true. In many European countries you could only go 500m and you had to fill in a form beforehand.

It is easy to rant if you do not bother with facts.

That is not comparable to Ireland.

A few countries were forced into harsh lockdowns as they were some of the first impacted and couldn't get control of the illness. Those lockdowns did not last long and most of those countries started reopening months ago now.

We had a headstart. And the illness never really got bad over here. Didn't stop us keeping a travel restriction in place up until a few weeks back.

FintanMcluskey

hamburgham wrote: »

Going to miss Ivan, has just started his last show.

The last broadcast where someone in a position of authority will be required to answer direct questions posed by an interesting character.

Not good for democracy I tell ya

thelad95

thelad95 wrote: »

Everything the government has done has largely been reactionary instead of looking at things with a pro-active sensible approach.

Exactly.
You might give them a pat on the back if they had of at least got some things right.

Take schools for example. They closed in March. No plan was put in place to ensure that state exams took place. No plan is in place for reopening in September. There has been months and months of notice and time to plan. There are many available solutions. But we've done nothing.

Nursing homes another one. We knew what demographic would likely die from this. And the CMO criticized nursing homes for banning visitors back in March. Eventually most of the deaths came from there.