Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Arghus

dalyboy wrote: »

Yeah sure. It was much easier to shut down the entire country .. wha ?

Yes, it's actually quite a complex problem and not as easy as people suggest.

The elderly - over 65's let's say - and the vulnerable are a sizable amount of the population, locking them away indefinitely - because you'll be letting the virus circulate freely for an indeterminate and unpredictable amount of time - is no slam dunk.

And what about the people who live with them, work with them, care for them etc, etc? If you're letting the virus circulate freely these people will also have to cocoon to some extent for an indefinite period of time. Because the virus is wildly infectious.

It's complex, not simple or straightforward.

Applying a large scale lockdown of limited duration to suppress the virus and then easing it carefully is actually a more practical option. There's a reason why it was used.

And these were decisions that had to be made quickly by governments, with limited information and with potentially grave consequences if incorrect.

All too easy to be wise after the fact.

charlie14

Lundstram wrote: »

Do you think it costs the government nothing to educate children, treat cancer patients and other medical needs? Do you not undertand the 300,000 currently out of work pay taxes in order to fund these services? Bitching about people wanting pubs open is far great than a lad wanting a few pints.

This is basic economics.

How much do you reckon it will cost if this virus is allowed run free through the country, overwhelming the health service to the extent there would be no cancer treatment or other medical needs served ?


What should be basic understanding is that we spent 57 Billion bailing out banks and that money did not save a single life, rather than people whinging because it is difficult for them to get a pint.

Penfailed

Schools to fully reopen next month according to MM.

Lundstram

charlie14 wrote: »

How much do you reckon it will cost if this virus is allowed run free through the country, overwhelming the health service to the extent there would be no cancer treatment or other medical needs served ?


What should be basic understanding is that we spent 57 Billion bailing out banks and that money did not save a single life, rather than people whinging because it is difficult for them to get a pint.

If the government hadn't bailed out the banks, three quarters of the country would have emigrated and caused a depression. Again basic economics.

"da gubberment bailed ou the bankerz hurr durr"

We as nation were no where near ever overwhelming the HSE. Fear mongering tabloid rubbish. They were the quietest they've ever been because the medical card holding hypochondriacs were afraid to sit in A&E for 7 hours with a sore thumb.

pjohnson

Lundstram wrote: »

If the government hadn't bailed out the banks, three quarters of the country would have emigrated and caused a depression. Again basic economics.

"da gubberment bailed ou the bankerz hurr durr"

We as nation were no where near ever overwhelming the HSE. Fear mongering tabloid rubbish. They were the quietest they've ever been because the medical card holding hypochondriacs were afraid to sit in A&E for 7 hours with a sore thumb.

Do you have any theory why we weren't?

Ginger n Lemon

Good to see familiar faces here still, even Arghus contributes after repeatedly telling us he wont post here.

Anyone been to St Green shopping center lately? Well i have. Fk me. 10 shops on the 1st floor closed permanently. there are about 25 shops in total on the 1st floor. The desperation in some places, some shops I saw today around city center was incredibly painful. Sales assistants wearing masks and begging with their eyes for someone to go into their empty shop.

Queues seem to be a never ending phenomenon. Some retail staff take great pleasure in coordinating these queues... you'd think get a special bonus if everybody in the queue is lined up precisely 2 metres apart from each other and not a centimetre closer! :rolleyes:

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Queues seem to be a never ending phenomenon. Some retail staff take great pleasure in coordinating these queues... you'd think get a special bonus if everybody in the queue is lined up precisely 2 metres apart from each other and not a centimetre closer! :rolleyes:

It's called 'social distancing'. Maybe you've heard of it?

Ginger n Lemon

I've heard today that in France, Macron wants to introduce a 5bn plan of supporting younger workers throughout all of this, idea is below

Company hires a person, if a person is under a certain age their full wages for the first year will be covered by the govt, if they are a bit older then only 50% will be covered by the govt and 50% by the company. 2nd year follows similar pattern. After all is done and dusted - person has 2 years of experience, has contributed to a company, and has spent govt's subsidized wages in France (naturally work and spend where you are based)

Is our 2k wages for first year and 1k for 2nd year apprentice program the equivalent of this? If yes, we are fk ed and as always have dumb ineffective ideas coming out of the govt. If not - is there something similar in Ireland?

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

It's called 'social distancing'. Maybe you've heard of it?

You dont understand, 1cm is the variance both ways. 2 metres 1 cm apart - u ll be told to "move in a bit closer". Speechless really. But, does perhaps explain why so few shoppers are out there nowadays.

I have a feeling you may just enjoy that job, I dont know why :rolleyes:

Ginger n Lemon

CruelSummer wrote: »

The Government vilifying families for their own incompetence, and trying to get society to blame to arrogant folk who work hard and would like a holiday...

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/families-risk-schools-not-opening-if-they-choose-to-go-abroad-39396094.html

We've reached a new low as a nation (which is difficult to imagine).

Is this shi*e going on in any other EU country?

Nonsense. Especially given that our govt has made 4,000 calls to 60,000 Dublin airport arrivals over last few weeks, shows how seriously they treat the whole thing. I can envisage M Martin coming out soon with the "if you see tourists, ask them (while maintaining social distancing) if they've self isolated for 14 days, if they say no then inform the Gardai". Pathetic.

FintanMcluskey

pjohnson wrote: »

Do you have any theory why we weren't?

Low numbers of the population in the critical age group of over 65s. Also low population density.

The overwhelmed health services were seen in a region in northern Italy with 10m citizens in an area the size of Munster.

2 million citizens are over the age of 65 in Sweden, bizzare how they didn't get overwhelmed, but you're theory is Ireland's schools shut and citizens restricted to within 2km of their home's for month's, while crippling the economy aided the health service in Ireland

Ginger n Lemon

Arghus wrote: »

No, I wouldn't.

I haven't opposed any of the phases of opening up and the speed at which they happened.

Your mind reading skills need some work.

So much bloody rubbish, unsurprisingly. You've posted over 8 weeks ago that the only scenario where you'd be happy with accelerated lifting of restrictions is, and I quote, "when new cases and deaths are in single digits"

When they've brought forward most of the stuff to 29 June, we were not in single digits in new cases now were we?

Based on this, I'd say you were not happy with so much stuff being brought forward to 29th of June. Arghus, back to euromomo website you go. Link us that upward curve of excess deaths to scaremonger :rolleyes:

John O.Groats

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You dont understand, 1cm is the variance both ways. 2 metres 1 cm apart - u ll be told to "move in a bit closer". Speechless really. But, does perhaps explain why so few shoppers are out there nowadays.

I have a feeling you may just enjoy that job, I dont know why :rolleyes:

For someome who claims to be "speechless" you seem to have plenty to say on here. Not much of it makes any sense though IMO.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

You dont understand, 1cm is the variance both ways. 2 metres 1 cm apart - u ll be told to "move in a bit closer". Speechless really. But, does perhaps explain why so few shoppers are out there nowadays.

You said someone was there to enforce it. That's keeping someone in employment. I thought you were all for that.

Ginger n Lemon

Penfailed wrote: »

You said someone was there to enforce it. That's keeping someone in employment. I thought you were all for that.

Your idea of keeping someone in employment is telling retail staff to go outside of the shop to direct a queue? So if there is no queue then that retail assistant loses his/her job according to your logic?

Penfailed you are really scraping the barrel here.

Any comment on 10 shops out of 25/30 in total on the first floor of St Green shopping center going out of business?

John O.Groats

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Your idea of keeping someone in employment is telling retail staff to go outside of the shop to direct a queue? So if there is no queue then that retail assistant loses his/her job according to your logic?

Penfailed you are really scraping the barrel here.

Any comment on 10 shops out of 25/30 in total on the first floor of St Green shopping center going out of business?

By the way were you wearing a mask when you were on your travels? Seeing as you were complaining about wearing them not long ago.

Ginger n Lemon

Dublin city centre is ‘dead, completely dead’ for restaurants

‘There are no tourists, no corporate business . . . It’s a serious situation’

“Dublin city centre is an absolute disaster. It’s a tumbleweed situation, especially after 6pm when businesses close. Last night we did 16 people, and the restaurant can hold 110. Tonight we’ve got 10 booked. It’s really scary.”

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/food-and-drink/dublin-city-centre-is-dead-completely-dead-for-restaurants-1.4311810

I confirm this, unfortunately. Had the pleasure of eating lunch in Bunsen today at 2 o clock, not a restaurant really but we were only ones in the place, then over the next 40 minutes 5 more people came in, they can easily accommodate 20+ with social distancing. Desperate.

I am sure Arghus or his fake account "John o Groats" will respond very soon with the "shure open up brigade, shure it will be grand" nonsense, the "slow and steady approach" rubbish. 100,000 + are out of work and grown men in Ireland are getting nervous about 6 new cases going to 20 in a country of 4,900,000 people. We are very much snookered if this continues (not to say that we arent already).

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Your idea of keeping someone in employment is telling retail staff to go outside of the shop to direct a queue? So if there is no queue then that retail assistant loses his/her job according to your logic? No, that's your logic. I didn't suggest any such thing.

Penfailed you are really scraping the barrel here. I'm not...but I'm not surprised that you would think that.

Any comment on 10 shops out of 25/30 in total on the first floor of St Green shopping center going out of business? It's terrible

.

Ginger n Lemon

Well if you think that 1/3rd of outlets on 1st floor in St Green shopping center going out of business is terrible, below must be terrible x100

Aer Lingus could be ‘wound up’ without State support, union chief warns
Covid-19 committee told airline losing €1.5m a-day with overseas travel restrictions in place

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-could-be-wound-up-without-state-support-union-chief-warns-1.4312620

Lets face it, back few weeks some were casually complaining about tourists, others were nervous about NPHET and Tony H apprentice having a cause for concern, but now shi* is getting real. If things do not change - the only reason you ll be sending children to school in September is so that they get an education and go abroad, which is absolutely disgraceful.

Why isnt our govt doing the local business voucher idea that was introduced in Vienna god knows how long ago?

Why is our govt so happy to hand out 203/300/350 euro or whatever it may be to unemployed youth rather than paying their full 18k or 20k year 1 year 2 wages while they work for companies, contribute to them, create actual output and gain valuable experience like what they do in France?

Please do not respond with "yeah but they ll subsidize staycations!", that doesnt happen until Oct (when, if you think weather is shi*e now, weather gets truly even more horrendous) and given that recession is ongoing a lot of people won't be spending 150-250 euros per night in an Irish hotel that freely.

Penfailed

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

Well if you think that 1/3rd of outlets on 1st floor in St Green shopping center going out of business is terrible, below must be terrible x100

Aer Lingus could be ‘wound up’ without State support, union chief warns
Covid-19 committee told airline losing €1.5m a-day with overseas travel restrictions in place

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/transport-and-tourism/aer-lingus-could-be-wound-up-without-state-support-union-chief-warns-1.4312620

Yes. That's terrible x 100.

Are you still planning on heading off to Spain?

John O.Groats

Penfailed wrote: »

Yes. That's terrible x 100.

Are you still planning on heading off to Spain?

I`d say he must be. After all the crocodile tears he shed about wanting businesses to reopen and then once they did he was complaining about the price of staying in Irish hotels and B & B`s. You couldn`t make it up.

Penfailed

John O.Groats wrote: »

I`d say he must be. After all the crocodile tears he shed about wanting businesses to reopen and then once they did he was complaining about the price of staying in Irish hotels and B & B`s. You couldn`t make it up.

...and then complained about wearing a mask in a barbers for about an hour yet will have to wear one on the plane and depending on whereabouts in Spain, will have to wear one in any public area. Due to an increase in cases, Spain has been removed from the 'green list' too.

thelad95

Penfailed wrote: »

...and then complained about wearing a mask in a barbers for about an hour yet will have to wear one on the plane and depending on whereabouts in Spain, will have to wear one in any public area. Due to an increase in cases, Spain has been removed from the 'green list' too.

Spain wasn't on the green list

Penfailed

thelad95 wrote: »

Spain wasn't on the green list

I beg your pardon. You're correct. It was on the UK version.

charlie14

Lundstram wrote: »

If the government hadn't bailed out the banks, three quarters of the country would have emigrated and caused a depression. Again basic economics.

"da gubberment bailed ou the bankerz hurr durr"

We as nation were no where near ever overwhelming the HSE. Fear mongering tabloid rubbish. They were the quietest they've ever been because the medical card holding hypochondriacs were afraid to sit in A&E for 7 hours with a sore thumb.

The very simple reason our health service was not overwhelmed was because of early lockdown.

If Covid-19 had been allowed run free what would that have done to your basic economics ?
Grave diggers would have done well, but I cannot think of many others.

MickeyLeari

is_that_so wrote: »

HIQA, HSE and care homes themselves, nobody else. NPHET just provide public health advice.

But where are the individuals working?

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

If Covid-19 had been allowed run free what would that have done to your basic economics ?
Grave diggers would have done well, but I cannot think of many others.

Very little would of happened.

Grave diggers, talk about hysterical nonsense

Arghus

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I am sure Arghus or his fake account "John o Groats" will respond very soon with the "shure open up brigade...

Seriously? Bizarre comment. Embarrassing to be honest.

Arghus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Very little would of happened.

Grave diggers, talk about hysterical nonsense

It's naive to think very little would have happened.

You were denying earlier that people ever made the argument of "open up, sure it'll be grand"

Now you say "very little would have happened..."

joseywhales

Penfailed wrote: »

Yes. That's terrible x 100.

Are you still planning on heading off to Spain?

Luckily they didn't stop all flights from the US, they can get some revenue from cargo and the handful of passengers. I had a look at the prices, $416 return if you book for departure in 3 weeks Boston-Dublin. That has got to be below cost. They must be hemorrhaging.