Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

FintanMcluskey

Arghus wrote: »

It sure is. Thankfully we managed to get the spread under control. Otherwise that figure would have been much higher.

According to Prof. Philip Nolan it's estimated that between 1-5% of the population were exposed to the virus, thanks to the efficacy of the measures used to prevent the spread. So you can do the maths yourself about the estimated death toll without any counter measures.

Ill do the maths.

Without counter measures we will take Sweden.

2 million citizens over 65 - 5730 death's =
286 deaths per 100k

With counter measure we will consider Ireland

650k citizen's over 65 - 1764 death's =
271 per 100k

The population of a nation over 65 has a striking correlation to death rate

Arghus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ill do the maths.

Without counter measures we will take Sweden.

2 million citizens over 65 - 5730 death's =
286 deaths per 100k

With counter measure we will consider Ireland

650k citizen's over 65 - 1764 death's =
271 per 100k

The population of a nation over 65 has a striking correlation to death rate

But, Fintan you argument falls apart because Sweden did take counter measures.

MickeyLeari

Arghus wrote: »

It sure is. Thankfully we managed to get the spread under control. Otherwise that figure would have been much higher.

According to Prof. Philip Nolan it's estimated that between 1-5% of the population were exposed to the virus, thanks to the efficacy of the measures used to prevent the spread. So you can do the maths yourself about the estimated death toll without any counter measures.

And then deGascun was highlighting that it was disappointing so few of the population had antibodies and thus a degree of immunisation. We are in a science experiment and the fascists are taking over.

FintanMcluskey

Arghus wrote: »

But, Fintan you argument falls apart because Sweden did take counter measures.

Ah seriously thats now the argument?

Sweden were accused of granny killing, but now the numbers dont support it, ara sure they had a lockdown really!

Arghus

MickeyLeari wrote: »

And then deGascun was highlighting that it was disappointing so few of the population had antibodies and thus a degree of immunisation. We are in a science experiment and the fascists are taking over.

But that only proves that it's actually more dangerous to let the virus run riot.

DeGascun saying that he expected to see more antibodies in the general population, underlines how so few people actually came into contact with, which, given the death toll, further underlines how dangerous the disease actually is.

It's not a science experiment. You can throw caution to the wind if it's an experiment, you can't if it's a situation where lives are at stake.

Arghus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Ah seriously thats now the argument?

Sweden were accused of granny killing, but now the numbers dont support it, ara sure they had a lockdown really!

Okay, we can be specific so.

When you refer to "no counter measures" in relation to Sweden, do you mean that they took no counter measures in response to the virus. None at all? Because that isn't true.

FintanMcluskey

Arghus wrote: »

It's not a science experiment. You can throw caution to the wind if it's an experiment, you can't if it's a situation where lives are at stake.

So postponing cancer treatment and countless other procedure's was an experiment in manslaughter by mismanagement?

Arghus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So postponing cancer treatment and countless other procedure's was an experiment in manslaughter by mismanagement?

No.

joeguevara

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So postponing cancer treatment and countless other procedure's was an experiment in manslaughter by mismanagement?

Are you saying cancer treatment was postponed? I had 3 family members continue with chem and radiation therapy during lockdown.

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Im going to try and summarise the credibility in your argument here.

You said Sweden didnt impose restrictions and many excess citizen's died.

I said they didn't have excess deaths, not in any significant numbers, and performed better then many European countries that did impose strict lockdowns

You now say Sweden did have restrictions

So i wonder which is it so?

They did or didnt have restrictions, and did or didn't those restrictions have any correlation with death rate or not?

I never said Sweden did not have restrictions. The restrictions they had, and still have, did not work to the same effect that lockdown did for their Nordic neighbours which is plain to see if you compare their numbers.

You do not seem to know what Sweden`s excess death numbers are.
For 2019 their total death were 88,766. That equates to 44,383 for 6 months.
For first 6 months of this year their total death were 53,786. Excess deaths of close to 9,500.
Their reported Covid-19 deaths in that period were around 5,500.

That still leaves 4,000 excess deaths unaccounted for.
I am not aware of anything in Sweden that would account for that large number of deaths in that 6 month period but perhaps you are ?

FintanMcluskey

joeguevara wrote: »

Are you saying cancer treatment was postponed? I had 3 family members continue with chem and radiation therapy during lockdown.

Youre fully correct. It was the screening that was postponed.

Very perceptive of you

joeguevara

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Youre fully correct. It was the screening that was postponed.

Very perceptive of you

No, just stating facts.

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So the USA has done much better than the 4th perfoming country in Europe in terms of death rate.

Thats positive news. It surely makes sense to get those tourists in from America at that rate

Its good news that the policies of a basket case USA President has resulted in their death rate being better than Sweden.


You may want to rethink that one.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

I never said Sweden did not have restrictions. The restrictions they had, and still have, did not work to the same effect that lockdown did for their Nordic neighbours which is plain to see if you compare their numbers.

You do not seem to know what Sweden`s excess death numbers are.
For 2019 their total death were 88,766. That equates to 44,383 for 6 months.
For first 6 months of this year their total death were 53,786. Excess deaths of close to 9,500.
Their reported Covid-19 deaths in that period were around 5,500.

That still leaves 4,000 excess deaths unaccounted for.
I am not aware of anything in Sweden that would account for that large number of deaths in that 6 month period but perhaps you are ?

Excess deaths are incredibly common. But you know this because you spend your time researching way to fuel the Covid hysteria train.

Spend a few minutes on google finding medical reports for excess deaths in Europe 2018 or any other year.

The media has realised most people are completley unaware that vast numbers of people die accross the globe and are using that fact to stoke hysteria for click's on articles.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

Its good news that the policies of a basket case USA President has resulted in their death rate being better than Sweden.


You may want to rethink that one.

But that basket case has done better than many european countries.

The death rate in the US is

55 million citizens over 65 - 152k deaths

Death rate of 276 per 100k over 65

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Excess deaths are incredibly common. But you know this because you spend your time researching way to fuel the Covid hysteria train.

Spend a few minutes on google finding medical reports for excess deaths in Europe 2018 or any other year.

The media has realised most people are completley unaware that vast numbers of people die accross the globe and are using that fact to stoke hysteria for click's on articles.

LOL. A load of nonsense. Excess deaths of that magnitude are uncommon without a reason why.

I know this because I actually went to the trouble of looking up Sweden`s total deaths, (it just entailed a one click search) and for the past 10 years they have remained consistent over that time other than this year.


Facts have nothing to do with hysteria. They simply are what they are and no amount of bluster changes them

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

LOL. A load of nonsense. Excess deaths of that magnitude are uncommon without a reason why.

I know this because I actually went to the trouble of looking up Sweden`s total deaths, (it just entailed a one click search) and for the past 10 years they have remained consistent over that time other than this year.


Facts have nothing to do with hysteria. They simply are what they are and no amount of bluster changes them

So they had had thousands of excess deaths but you just said earlier they did have restrictions.

So, restrictions save lives, Sweden had restrictions, Sweden had excess deaths worse than the US, but restrictions save lives.

In struggling to see any credibility here Charles

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Excess deaths are incredibly common. But you know this because you spend your time researching way to fuel the Covid hysteria train.

Spend a few minutes on google finding medical reports for excess deaths in Europe 2018 or any other year.

The media has realised most people are completley unaware that vast numbers of people die accross the globe and are using that fact to stoke hysteria for click's on articles.

Here for you Fintan
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

Spanish Eyes

This place is as mad as a box of frogs. Just put your mask on where required, keep your distance, wash your hands and don't go abroad for now.

This country has done very well, to keep it like that, see above.

We will know who to point the finger at anyway if spikes happen anytime soon.

FintanMcluskey

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

But that basket case has done better than many european countries.

The death rate in the US is

55 million citizens over 65 - 152k deaths

Death rate of 276 per 100k over 65

20k deaths in the US among under 65’s

Arghus

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Here for you Fintan
https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps

Some of them in here REALLY don't like that website, because it shows clearly the impact Covid had in Europe, using rock solid data and in a very clear and consise format.

FintanMcluskey

Arghus wrote: »

Some of them in here REALLY don't like that website, because it shows clearly the impact Covid had in Europe, using rock solid data and in a very clear and consise format.

No Im going to use that graph.

It proves restrictions had no impact on death rate.

Really good data in that graph

FintanMcluskey

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

This place is as mad as a box of frogs. Just put your mask on where required, keep your distance, wash your hands and don't go abroad for now.

This country has done very well, to keep it like that, see above.

We will know who to point the finger at anyway if spikes happen anytime soon.

Thats some load of patronising waffle before tea time

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

But that basket case has done better than many european countries.

The death rate in the US is

55 million citizens over 65 - 152k deaths

Death rate of 276 per 100k over 65

You have a terrible obsession with over 65`s, but if your figures are correct then with John Hopkins University figure of 456 that would mean 178 under 65. Close to 40% of deaths being under 65.

Spanish Eyes

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Thats some load of patronising waffle before tea time

Glad you enjoyed it. :P

Lighten up a bit. Getting hot in here for no reason.

But any chance to buck the trend and be rebellious is getting mighty tedious now.

Arghus

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No Im going to use that graph.

It proves restrictions had no impact on death rate.

Really good data in that graph

You are not making any sense Fintan.

What the graphs show is the huge increase in the rate of excess deaths in different countries in Europe at the start of this year, in comparison to other preceding years.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

20k deaths in the US among under 65’s

A tiny percentage of their population.

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

You have a terrible obsession with over 65`s, but if your figures are correct then with John Hopkins University figure of 456 that would mean 178 under 65. Close to 40% of deaths being under 65.

No I dont have a terrible obsession with over 65's, Covid does.

Where are you getting data of 40% of deaths under 65?

The faries?

charlie14

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

So they had had thousands of excess deaths but you just said earlier they did have restrictions.

So, restrictions save lives, Sweden had restrictions, Sweden had excess deaths worse than the US, but restrictions save lives.

In struggling to see any credibility here Charles

Fintan if you weren`t so busy running around trying to avoid uncomfortable facts that do not suit your narrative, the credibility would be much less of a struggle.

FintanMcluskey

Arghus wrote: »

You are not making any sense Fintan.

What the graphs show is the huge increase in the rate of excess deaths in different countries in Europe at the start of this year, in comparison to other preceding years.

But where's the correlation that restrictions have any effect on death rate?

Thats my argument, Covid kills high number's of vulnerable in a short space of time.

Restrictions dont make any difference