Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Naos

Deleted User wrote: »

Remember when they told us we had to lockdown because they we don't want the hospitals to get overwhelmed

Hospital were never overwhelmed and numbers have been dropping since late April.

I don't know if we'll get lower than 6 but maybe we will get to 0. Typical Ireland, we probably still won't reopen anyways.

You're quite active here - can you respond to these two arguments please:

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

But you can't prove there won't be at this stage. All we can do is look at the early signs.
Two studies from Germany paint a sobering picture of the toll that Covid-19 takes on the heart, raising the specter of long-term damage after people recover, even if their illness was not severe enough to require hospitalization.
Not sure about you, but any suggestion of 'cardiac problems' is not something I would brush off lightly...

TaurenDruid wrote: »

It is not "some people feeling a bit tired a few weeks."

If only it was. I'm feeling "a bit tired" for the last couple of months, as more most of my friends and family, but that's down to Covid only in the sense that our sleep patterns have been severely disrupted and it's hard to switch off when working from home.

What it is, is a hell of a lot of otherwise young, healthy people suffering chronic post-viral fatigue syndrome, for months. And people also developing longer term lung, heart and kidney problems.

Up to 2/3rds of healthcare workers who've recovered from Covid got post-viral fatigue. It knocks you for six. It's exhausting. And it can last months. https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13598

LuckyLloyd

AdamD wrote: »

At the current trend we're probably not far from 0, the ones in ICU can take a long time to get through it and be discharged.

Though the cases have risen slightly in recent weeks so small amounts of hospitalisations may follow? Either way we're a long long way off being overwhelmed, and its difficult to see how we could get overwhelmed from this point when we didn't previously.

I think people forget the virus was here for weeks before we fully knew and acted on it. So it was spreading in those weeks where we had everyone in offices, on full public transport, in packed pubs and clubs, mass gatherings like weddings and sports events. I just don't see how its going to spread in the same manner given our current environment. Even just having office workers at home surely makes a substantial difference?

We should keep it that way so?

I think the data is telling us that we're pretty close to a sustainable balance and should maintain course. The next hurdles are schools reopening and a resumption of global international travel on a larger scale.

completedit

AdamD wrote: »

At the current trend we're probably not far from 0, the ones in ICU can take a long time to get through it and be discharged.

Though the cases have risen slightly in recent weeks so small amounts of hospitalisations may follow? Either way we're a long long way off being overwhelmed, and its difficult to see how we could get overwhelmed from this point when we didn't previously.

I think people forget the virus was here for weeks before we fully knew and acted on it. So it was spreading in those weeks where we had everyone in offices, on full public transport, in packed pubs and clubs, mass gatherings like weddings and sports events. I just don't see how its going to spread in the same manner given our current environment. Even just having office workers at home surely makes a substantial difference?

Stop using common sense.

The whole thing is just a nonsense at this stage. Surely you adopt a rolling policy whereby we tell people to act sensible but open things back up and adopt a wait and see approach. I get it, those 5 people currently in ICU's are real people with families, memories etc. But there's other dreams being destroyed too. I've graduated into a job market which has now been decimated by Covid. I'm not young enough for it to not matter. How many others are like me? Are lives hang in the balance? Mentally I am good but for how long? I'm not saying I matter more than other people, but I do matter equally. If mental health is important as they say, how are we not looking at people's futures being destroyed by these measures. I don't just mean Ireland though. It's a truly tough situation. Deaths are much more visceral measures than intangibles like long term self-esteem/ memories missed out on/ losing a summer of your relative youth. I'm just a statistic. And I'm one of the lucky ones but it's easy to see that this will take its toll on people in indirect ways. I feel this hasn't been given enough consideration.

Arghus

skelly22 wrote: »

It's very difficult to explain away the increase in cases in the USA. Sure, the man on the telly told me it was true, so it must be true!

He also told me that masks were a complete waste of time so....oh wait, no he's actually telling me now that I'm an idiot and a selfish pr!ck if I don't wear one.

Ah yes....the man on the telly. He backs up every single stat the lockdown merchants need backing up. Wakey wakey!

Absolute gibberish.

FintanMcluskey

Naos wrote: »

You're quite active here - can you respond to these two arguments please:

Countless studies have noted lasting effects on patients who have suffered influenza.

FintanMcluskey

completedit wrote: »

Stop using common sense.

The whole thing is just a nonsense at this stage. Surely you adopt a rolling policy whereby we tell people to act sensible but open things back up and adopt a wait and see approach. I get it, those 5 people currently in ICU's are real people with families, memories etc. But there's other dreams being destroyed too. I've graduated into a job market which has now been decimated by Covid. I'm not young enough for it to not matter. How many others are like me? Are lives hang in the balance? Mentally I am good but for how long? I'm not saying I matter more than other people, but I do matter equally. If mental health is important as they say, how are we not looking at people's futures being destroyed by these measures. I don't just mean Ireland though. It's a truly tough situation. Deaths are much more visceral measures than intangibles like long term self-esteem/ memories missed out on/ losing a summer of your relative youth. I'm just a statistic. And I'm one of the lucky ones but it's easy to see that this will take its toll on people in indirect ways. I feel this hasn't been given enough consideration.

Its ignorance.

Some have had no disruption to their lives financially, educationally or socially.

So enter patronising finger wagging at people asking those who have had no disruption to have some consideration for those that have

completedit

And if you say anything else you're a snowflake.

These same people will be the ones posting up pictures from Darkness to Light and espousing the need for people to "just talk" about their problems.

average_runner

completedit wrote: »

Stop using common sense.

The whole thing is just a nonsense at this stage. Surely you adopt a rolling policy whereby we tell people to act sensible but open things back up and adopt a wait and see approach. I get it, those 5 people currently in ICU's are real people with families, memories etc. But there's other dreams being destroyed too. I've graduated into a job market which has now been decimated by Covid. I'm not young enough for it to not matter. How many others are like me? Are lives hang in the balance? Mentally I am good but for how long? I'm not saying I matter more than other people, but I do matter equally. If mental health is important as they say, how are we not looking at people's futures being destroyed by these measures. I don't just mean Ireland though. It's a truly tough situation. Deaths are much more visceral measures than intangibles like long term self-esteem/ memories missed out on/ losing a summer of your relative youth. I'm just a statistic. And I'm one of the lucky ones but it's easy to see that this will take its toll on people in indirect ways. I feel this hasn't been given enough consideration.

What part of the measures that currently in place affecting your work?

completedit

average_runner wrote: »

What part of the measures that currently in place affecting your work?

Well, for one I'm a recent graduate so currently not working. Secondly, my plans were contingent on mobility. Recessions happen. Luck of the draw and I could have applied for jobs back in 2016 rather than pursuing more education. But Jesus we are facing down the barrel of lord knows what! Best not to think about. Life's not bad. Would just be nicer if there was a bit more or a sensical and pragmatic approach.

average_runner

completedit wrote: »

Well, for one I'm a recent graduate so currently not working. Secondly, my plans were contingent on mobility. Recessions happen. Luck of the draw and I could have applied for jobs back in 2016 rather than pursuing more education. But Jesus we are facing down the barrel of lord knows what! Best not to think about. Life's not bad. Would just be nicer if there was a bit more or a sensical and pragmatic approach.

I do feel sorry for the grads coming out, but this is a time for you to improve on your skills if possible.



20 years in my industry and I have experience the highs and lows, you will experience it all.



Its all a journey and there is always a light and the end of the tunnel.


Its the social scene that you are missing out I feel sorry for u. Hopefully the surge in Europe doesn't hit us

Naos

Naos wrote: »

You're quite active here - can you respond to these two arguments please:

This disease has been with us going into an 8th month now. It is the biggest news story in my lifetime (34). Almost 11M people have recovered according to the stats.

That is enough people that I'm sure we would know about it if a size-able number actually still had MAJOR issues.

Of course with 17M cases worldwide, there is going to be some horror stories. And the media will only be delighted to print them. "Man catches Covid and is fine 2 weeks later" is not going to sell.

skelly22

Arghus wrote: »

Absolute gibberish.

Absolutely predictable.

facehugger99

TaurenDruid wrote: »

It is not "some people feeling a bit tired a few weeks."

If only it was. I'm feeling "a bit tired" for the last couple of months, as more most of my friends and family, but that's down to Covid only in the sense that our sleep patterns have been severely disrupted and it's hard to switch off when working from home.

What it is, is a hell of a lot of otherwise young, healthy people suffering chronic post-viral fatigue syndrome, for months. And people also developing longer term lung, heart and kidney problems.

Up to 2/3rds of healthcare workers who've recovered from Covid got post-viral fatigue. It knocks you for six. It's exhausting. And it can last months. https://www.inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13598

They are the second most moany profession, after teachers.

I'm surprised only 2/3 of them complained about feeling a bit tired.


I wouldn't be putting much stock in these self-defined 'conditions' TBH.

Penfailed

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Remember when they told us we had to lockdown because they we don't want the hospitals to get overwhelmed

Hospital were never overwhelmed...

So...lockdown worked?

Penfailed

Penfailed wrote: »

So...lockdown worked?

Well, we would have never had the number of deaths that lots of people were predicting back in Jan/Feb. Lockdown or not. That was crazy talk. I recall people saying that 50000 Irish could die.

I do think the lockdown helped until around the end of April / start of May when the curve was flattened.

We needed to get our testing and tracing up to speed. We desperately needed to to get the clusters in nursing homes under control.

Since then though, the hospital numbers have dropped to 6. And the deaths have dropped off completely with the since the nursing home clusters are under control.

We could be fighting this illness a lot harder than we are. There are several reasons why we might regret it eventually. Particularly if there is no vaccine or the vaccine takes a lot longer to roll out.

I actually wouldn't mind if travel was flat out banned for a few more months if it meant we could have more freedom here.

joeguevara

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, we would have never had the number of deaths that lots of people were predicting back in Jan/Feb. Lockdown or not. That was crazy talk. I recall people saying that 50000 Irish could die.

I do think the lockdown helped until around the end of April / start of May when the curve was flattened.

We needed to get our testing and tracing up to speed. We desperately needed to to get the clusters in nursing homes under control.

Since then though, the hospital numbers have dropped to 6. And the deaths have dropped off completely with the since the nursing home clusters are under control.

We could be fighting this illness a lot harder than we are. There are several reasons why we might regret it eventually. Particularly if there is no vaccine or the vaccine takes a lot longer to roll out.

I actually wouldn't mind if travel was flat out banned for a few more months if it meant we could have more freedom here.

What freedom are you looking for?

growleaves

We've been sold a PUP.

timmy_mallet

Penfailed wrote: »

So...lockdown worked?

With Sweden's considerably less strict lockdown (factor in population ratios here too now) when did they run out of ICU beds?

timmy_mallet

Deleted User wrote: »

Well, we would have never had the number of deaths that lots of people were predicting back in Jan/Feb. Lockdown or not. That was crazy talk. I recall people saying that 50000 Irish could die.

I do think the lockdown helped until around the end of April / start of May when the curve was flattened.

We needed to get our testing and tracing up to speed. We desperately needed to to get the clusters in nursing homes under control.

Since then though, the hospital numbers have dropped to 6. And the deaths have dropped off completely with the since the nursing home clusters are under control.

We could be fighting this illness a lot harder than we are. There are several reasons why we might regret it eventually. Particularly if there is no vaccine or the vaccine takes a lot longer to roll out.

I actually wouldn't mind if travel was flat out banned for a few more months if it meant we could have more freedom here.

Well, i don't think 50k is crazy talk. With a known CFR of about 1%, which at the time it was (if not higher), then all of the population contracting the virus would lead to 50k deaths.

The question to ask is, is 50k too much for society to tolerate?

Penfailed

timmy_mallet wrote: »

With Sweden's considerably less strict lockdown (factor in population ratios here too now) when did they run out of ICU beds?

I've no idea. I'm not one of Sweden's cheerleaders. I do know that the health service in Sweden is considerably better than here.

FintanMcluskey

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Well, i don't think 50k is crazy talk. With a known CFR of about 1%, which at the time it was (if not higher), then all of the population contracting the virus would lead to 50k deaths.

The question to ask is, is 50k too much for society to tolerate?

50k is crazy though Timmy when you compare it to Sweden. Thats the equivalent of expecting 150k deaths in Sweden.

The CFR was never actually at 1% in fact no where near it for the complete population, it was only an innaccurate calculation at the time. ( treatment has lowered it slightly alright)

storker

Penfailed wrote: »

I've no idea. I'm not one of Sweden's cheerleaders. I do know that the health service in Sweden is considerably better than here.

And the population density is considerably lower.

FintanMcluskey

Penfailed wrote: »

I've no idea. I'm not one of Sweden's cheerleaders. I do know that the health service in Sweden is considerably better than here.

Assume they have a substantial amount more ICU beds per 100k population to aid treatment for the vulnerable?

FintanMcluskey

growleaves wrote: »

We've been sold a PUP.

We've bought into a pig in a bag Im afraid.

_Kaiser_

RTE news leading with the situation on the other side of the world in Australia.

I'm sorry but that's completely irrelevant to the situation here unless those Irish people there try to come back.. But I suppose the ongoing low numbers here aren't as good for scary headlines :rolleyes:

Idbatterim

Rte can make this doom and gloom into a 24 hour newschannel. If there are covid deaths here and still the hysteria, imagine what they can whip up with suicides, work place death, road deaths, old age deaths :rolleyes:

Its truly pathetic, all media is juat now click bait or eyeball bait :rolleyes:

CruelSummer

How’s George Lee & RTÉ coping with today’s numbers? The excitement must be palatable in the RTÉ studios as the prospect of more doomsday reporting & Prime Time Special episodes to follow for months on end. They’ll probably drag out Prof Killeen, Scally, Ryan, McConkey, etc for another round of it in tandem - perhaps we’ll be asked to wear goggles or face shields next as well as masks...
What amazes me is the weight given to Prof Scally re Covid. Of course he’s going to big it up, he has a conflict of interest in the development of the Oxford vaccine. It’s like asking bankers for their views on how the Government should go about fixing their banking crisis mess in 2008.

FintanMcluskey

CruelSummer wrote: »

How’s George Lee & RTÉ coping with today’s numbers? The excitement must be palatable in the RTÉ studios as the prospect of more doomsday reporting & Prime Time Special episodes to follow for months on end. They’ll probably drag out Prof Killeen, Scally, Ryan, McConkey, etc for another round it in tandem - perhaps we’ll be asked to wear goggles or face shields next as well as masks...
What amazes me is the weight given to Prof Scally re Covid. Of course he’s going to big it up, he has a conflict of interest in the development of the Oxford vaccine. It’s like asking bankers for their views on how the Government should go about fixing their banking crisis mess in 2008.

Someone said it here before.

We are asking the wrong people the wrong questions to get the wrong advice.

Watch Luke O Neills first late late appearance on Feb 28. The rantings of a bluffer.

Those idiots have had their say. Its time to wheel out every economist, mental health psychologist and childhood development expert they can find.

On 2nd thought's they dont have to be experts, just random galutes, and let them have their say

gral6

It looks like the pubs would never open. It is a joke to what this country turned to.

Spanish Eyes

Spikes are happening.

We have to deal with that now. Disappointing to hear of the numbers today though.