Relaxation of Restrictions, Part IV - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

niallo27

Travis Numerous Steamer wrote: »

Just in Woodies and it's a disgrace, no system at all, queue for till is between the main lanes, people walking on top of people, far to many in the shop. Far better/safer system in Homebase

Its not woodies in limerick anyway because its quiet strict there.

Professor Moriarty

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Agree and I will be loyal to those businesses who did. I am very much of the mind that things should open up but they need to respect the 1 m WHO recommended distance as a means to minimise risk for staff and customers. And people need to stay at home if sick, to get tested if they have symptoms and employers need to be responsible in respect to this.

Agreed. Not yet convinced fully about the 1m though. Here's Dr Navarro from WHO a few days ago:

"The WHO and others have said the best distance to keep away from people if you want to avoid inhaling a droplet is two metres. That's because that will keep you safe 99% of the time but you can greatly reduce risk even at one metre because 70% of the droplets will stick within one metre."

He went on to say that ultimately it's a matter of personal choice. So some people might choose to go to shops that have little or no social distancing and others will go to shops that have strict social distancing.

MickeyLeari

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Agreed. Not yet convinced fully about the 1m though. Here's Dr Navarro from WHO a few days ago:

"The WHO and others have said the best distance to keep away from people if you want to avoid inhaling a droplet is two metres. That's because that will keep you safe 99% of the time but you can greatly reduce risk even at one metre because 70% of the droplets will stick within one metre."

He went on to say that ultimately it's a matter of personal choice. So some people might choose to go to shops that have little or no social distancing and others will go to shops that have strict social distancing.

I know that but they also mention that this was on the basis of people who were sneezing and coughing. So 1m with people exercising personal responsibility and wearing masks will most likely reduce that risk. There is a judgement call.

MrMusician18

One could easily question the value of the remaining measures at this point - From a social perspective, they seem to have completely gone out the window and the only ones trying to observe them are business and formal organisations.

So if large numbers of people are not obeying the measures - compliance must be less than 50% at this point - then why continue to punish business?

MickeyLeari

MrMusician18 wrote: »

One could easily question the value of the remaining measures at this point - From a social perspective, they seem to have completely gone out the window and the only ones trying to observe them are business and formal organisations.

So if large numbers of people are not obeying the measures - compliance must be less than 50% at this point - then why continue to punish business?

That’s a good point. Responsible business and reasonable social distancing policies can be a positive. I was on Henry street earlier - more people around, people queuing responsibly for shops that were open including Gino’s. It felt right and it did not feel unsafe.

Benimar

MrMusician18 wrote: »

One could easily question the value of the remaining measures at this point - From a social perspective, they seem to have completely gone out the window and the only ones trying to observe them are business and formal organisations.

So if large numbers of people are not obeying the measures - compliance must be less than 50% at this point - then why continue to punish business?

I don’t know where you are seeing such low compliance. I’ve been out walking, at the beach and to the shop today and the level of compliance is very high. In fact, remove the teenagers, and it’s close to 100% where I am.

titan18

MickeyLeari wrote: »

Did he not overrule the Taoiseach a few weeks back? I think Alan Kelly described it as a very poor sign for the body politic.

The Govt regulations on travel run out on 16 June. Why is he anticipating what the Government will say.

The structures and governance (and this is the fault of the Government) are seriously flawed and we will all be paying the price for a long long time.

Tbf, Leo did the same himself as the leaks reported them lifting them in months, not weeks for countries with low coronavirus cases.

MickeyLeari

titan18 wrote: »

Tbf, Leo did the same himself as the leaks reported them lifting them in months, not weeks for countries with low coronavirus cases.

Truth be told - Varadkar has been pretty awful this month. Although he was impressive on March 17.

growleaves

Religious leaders speak out over Government's 'unlawful' closure of churches [UK]

The closure of churches is “unlawful”, a coalition of Christian bishops and religious leaders have warned, as they threaten a judicial review into the decision to keep doors locked.

Last week France’s Supreme Court ruled that the French government’s absolute ban on religious gatherings in a bid to curb the spread of coronavirus is unlawful, and ordered the Government to relax restrictions on religious worship.

Now a group of high-profile church leaders and bishops in the UK have written to the Government seeking an urgent review of lockdown measures that uniformly ban churches from opening.

Professor Moriarty

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I know that but they also mention that this was on the basis of people who were sneezing and coughing. So 1m with people exercising personal responsibility and wearing masks will most likely reduce that risk. There is a judgement call.

Yeah. If everyone wore decent masks it would help greatly with the two metres.

growleaves

Scots pensioner went for five days without food because she was scared to leave her flat during lockdown

Charity bosses have since stepped in and rescued the woman after she was found starving in her flat on the top floor of a tenement.

Micky 32

growleaves wrote: »

Scots pensioner went for five days without food because she was scared to leave her flat during lockdown

She must have been reading this thread!

growleaves

‘It’s All Bullsh*t,’ Russia’s Coronavirus Information Chief Says of Virus Fears

In a interview that aired Wednesday, Myasnikov gestured for the cameras to stop running and said candidly: “It’s all bullsh*t.”

“It’s all exaggerated. It’s an acute respiratory disease with minimal mortality,” he told television personality Ksenia Sobchak in the interview for her YouTube project.

“Why has the whole world been destroyed? That I don’t know,” Myasnikov said, adding that he’s more concerned about a second wave that he claimed “we're unprepared for.”

Jayesdiem

MickeyLeari wrote: »

I know that but they also mention that this was on the basis of people who were sneezing and coughing. So 1m with people exercising personal responsibility and wearing masks will most likely reduce that risk. There is a judgement call.

What’s this judgement call all about? What are you scared of?

MickeyLeari

Jayesdiem wrote: »

What’s this judgement call all about? What are you scared of?

A risk based assessment. I think 1m with safeguards and persona responsibility makes sense. What do you think?

Jayesdiem

MickeyLeari wrote: »

A risk based assessment. I think 1m with safeguards and persona responsibility makes sense. What do you think?

I don’t want to be crude but I mostly agree with the Russian guy cited above. I believe the inconvenience of tip toeing around the virus is less palatable than actually contracting it and dealing with it if I do (I think I had it). The world will not function properly with social distancing and we cannot live this way.

vid36

Germany is a probusiness country and they have successfully reopened with 1.5m social distance. Many other countries require more than 1m .Australia, USA,Netherlands, Belgium,Spain ,Switzerland, Poland ,UK.etc.We should not drop to the lowest standard just in response to successful lobbying. Why should Irish people accept a lower standard in safety than Germany?

growleaves

Why most Covid-19 deaths won’t be from the virus

From a famine of “biblical” proportions to a deluge of undiagnosed cancers, while we’re all worrying about the coronavirus, most fatalities could be collateral damage.

Across the globe, patients have reported being denied cancer care, kidney dialysis and urgent transplant surgeries, with sometimes fatal results. In the Balkans, women have been driven to try dangerous, experimental abortions themselves, while experts in the UK have reported a rise in DIY dentistry, as people turn to toe-curling improvisations involving chewing gum, wire-cutters, and superglue. Panic-hoarding of the drug hydroxychloroquin, which is normally used to treat malaria and autoimmune conditions, and has recently been found to increase deaths from Covid-19, has led to shortages.

And as with all crises, the current pandemic looks set to hit the poorest countries the hardest. Scientists have warned that, in some places, disruption to the control of diseases such as HIV, tuberculosis and malaria could lead to losses on the same scale as those caused directly by the virus. Similarly, experts fear that deaths from illnesses such as cholera could far exceed those from Covid-19 itself.

Finally, it's thought that the global lockdowns and subsequent economic turmoil could increase so-called deaths of despair, as some people resort to alcoholism or suicide.

Jayesdiem

vid36 wrote: »

Germany is a probusiness country and they have successfully reopened with 1.5m social distance. Many other countries require more than 1m .Australia, USA,Netherlands, Belgium,Spain ,Switzerland, Poland ,UK.etc.We should not drop to the lowest standard just in response to successful lobbying. Why should Irish people accept a lower standard in safety than Germany?

Because it’s absolutely ludicrous. Look at what the world has become!

MickeyLeari

Jayesdiem wrote: »

I don’t want to be crude but I mostly agree with the Russian guy cited above. I believe the inconvenience of tip toeing around the virus is less palatable than actually contracting it and dealing with it if I do (I think I had it). The world will not function properly with social distancing and we cannot live this way.

I understand that view. There is a balance though to be struck from different positions. I don’t think we are at the point of opening nightclubs but we can open a lot with 1 metre distancing. With 1 metre distancing I would open up the Avila stadium with a reduced capacity in August.

dalyboy

Jim Root wrote: »

What an outrageous slur to make. He’s a medical doctor. Do you expect him to make any guidance that increases medical risk?

Oh the irony of that last bit of your post has me in dismay.
Ask that question to all the people awaiting cancer screenings with no testing resume date secured. What about the mental health of the citizens? What about the knock on effect of a busted flush of an economy? Do these potential suicides not factor in medical risk ?

Lundstram

Just back from the local lake. Loads there soaking up the sun and having a few drinks, all very relaxing. Until two Gardaí arrive and make an annoucment for people who don't live within 5km to leave. No one batted an eyelid. They walked around talking to individuals then but no one budged so they gave up and left.

Bloody jobsworths, you'd think there was no real crime going on in the country. :rolleyes:

MickeyLeari

Lundstram wrote: »

Just back from the local lake. Loads there soaking up the sun and having a few drinks, all very relaxing. Until two Gardaí arrive and make an annoucment for people who don't live within 5km to leave. No one batted an eyelid. They walked around talking to individuals then but no one budged so they gave up and left.

Bloody jobsworths, you'd think there was no real crime going on in the country. :rolleyes:

I remember being on a train in Belgium. The inspector walked into the carriage and asked first in French and then in Flemish “Is there anyone who does not have a ticket?” A common sense approach to doing a job and perhaps the Gardai could have done the first part of it and left the second alone.

alta stare

Managed to squeeze in a trip to the beach today. Loads out there. The water was lovely and people were enjoying themselves. The Gardai were outside on the main road with a half arsed checkpoint. Great to see people out.

RobitTV

Had a lovely day today enjoying the weather. Loads of people out and getting ice cream and having a few drinks and socialising with people.

The Gardai weren't around because they knew it was a waste of time. Who cares if somebody came from outside the 5km radius.

MrMusician18

RobitTV wrote: »

Had a lovely day today enjoying the weather. Loads of people out and getting ice cream and having a few drinks and socialising with people.

The Gardai weren't around because they knew it was a waste of time. Who cares if somebody came from outside the 5km radius.

This caviler behavior among the general public is exactly what I'm talking about. A good part of the population are 6-8 weeks ahead of the government roadmap socially at least - yet they're would be consternation from the public if business was at the same carry on.

The double standards must be very frustrating for business owners.

Blaze420

MrMusician18 wrote: »

This caviler behavior among the general public is exactly what I'm talking about. A good part of the population are 6-8 weeks ahead of the government roadmap socially at least - yet they're would be consternation from the public if business was at the same carry on.

The double standards must be very frustrating for business owners.

Well that might tell you the roadmap is too slow - enjoyed a bbq with friends today and I don’t give a **** that I did so. Enough is enough with this nonsense.

MrMusician18

Blaze420 wrote: »

Well that might tell you the roadmap is too slow - enjoyed a bbq with friends today and I don’t give a **** that I did so. Enough is enough with this nonsense.

It might however also tell you that people are selfish and impatient.

MickeyLeari

MrMusician18 wrote: »

It might however also tell you that people are selfish and impatient.

The people are the reason this worked. 60% of the deaths were in nursing homes where the State fell down badly. At the same time it should be acknowledged that nursing home residents are also susceptible when there is a strong flu going around.

MrMusician18

MickeyLeari wrote: »

The people are the reason this worked. 60% of the deaths were in nursing homes where the State fell down badly. At the same time it should be acknowledged that nursing home residents are also susceptible when there is a strong flu going around.

And do those that initially complied and are now ignoring the regulations want a clap on the back?

The second wave of the Spanish flu was more deadly than the first.