Trump / Brazil/ covid etc why?????

Truthvader

Not a Trump fan to be clear but looking at Covid league tables on Irish Times this morning. We are all told that the Irish are doing everything right and that Trump is a looney who has endangered his own people - only person worse being the Brazilian President BUT. Deaths per 1000 are higher in Ireland than America and Brazil is joint bottom of the table. Am iI missing something or have I failed some kind of intelligence test?

Reported cases or overall Excess Deaths?

Nody

Not sure what table you're using but here's a updated one. The problem with the numbers are however multiple. For starters Belgium for example reports everything that could even be remotely connected as Covid death; USA don't and they have an very significant increase in "seasonal influenza deaths" this year compared to earlier years. Basically think on how suicides were reported a few decades back with "accident by rope" or how UK only reported covid deaths if they died in hospitals but not care homes etc.

Secondly and this is the other part statistics reflect poorly in and of itself is what is the direction it's going in general. For example Corona cases are currently ramping up rapidly in Latin America were as in Europe it's slowing down (though the stop of lock down will see an increase for sure).

And of course the third issue partially tied to the first one; how reliable are the reported numbers in and of themselves? For example Venezuela claims only 10 deaths and 1121 cases in a magical communist paradise approach which no one believes is true. Same with Iran's numbers being, shall we say, questionable etc. Hence even if you get some numbers they are most likely BS.

Country Confirmed deaths (absolute) Population (in millions) Deaths per million
Belgium 9,388 11.42 821.92
Spain 27,119 46.72 580.41
United Kingdom 37,837 66.49 569.07
Italy 33,142 60.43 548.42
France 28,625 66.99 427.32
Sweden 4,266 10.18 418.93
Netherlands 5,903 17.23 342.58
Ireland 1,639 4.85 337.69
United States 101,473 327.17 310.16
Switzerland 1,919 8.52 225.33
Ecuador 3,313 17.08 193.92
Canada 6,982 37.06 188.4
Portugal 1,369 10.28 133.15
Peru 4,099 31.99 128.14
Brazil 26,754 209.47 127.72
Germany 8,472 82.93 102.16
Denmark 568 5.8 97.97
Iran 7,627 81.8 93.24

Hangdogroad

Truthvader wrote: »

Not a Trump fan to be clear but looking at Covid league tables on Irish Times this morning. We are all told that the Irish are doing everything right and that Trump is a looney who has endangered his own people - only person worse being the Brazilian President BUT. Deaths per 1000 are higher in Ireland than America and Brazil is joint bottom of the table. Am iI missing something or have I failed some kind of intelligence test?

That muppet in Brazil actually makes Trump look good in comparison.

landofthetree

Truthvader wrote: »

Not a Trump fan to be clear but looking at Covid league tables on Irish Times this morning. We are all told that the Irish are doing everything right and that Trump is a looney who has endangered his own people - only person worse being the Brazilian President BUT. Deaths per 1000 are higher in Ireland than America and Brazil is joint bottom of the table. Am iI missing something or have I failed some kind of intelligence test?

You can spin the stats many ways. The media hate Trump and the Brazilian president so they will use totals instead of per capita.

The EU has a terrible death rate but that can't be question.

France,Spain,Germany, Belgium and Italy combined has more deaths than the USA with must less of a population.

Truthvader

Nody wrote: »

Not sure what table you're using but here's a updated one. The problem with the numbers are however multiple. For starters Belgium for example reports everything that could even be remotely connected as Covid death; USA don't and they have an very significant increase in "seasonal influenza deaths" this year compared to earlier years. Basically think on how suicides were reported a few decades back with "accident by rope" etc.

Secondly and this is the other part statistics reflect poorly in and of itself is what is the direction it's going in general. For example Corona cases are currently ramping up rapidly in Latin America were as in Europe it's slowing down (though the stop of lock down will see an increase for sure).

And of course the third issue partially tied to the first one; how reliable are the reported numbers in and of themselves? For example Venezuela claims only 10 deaths and 1121 cases in a magical communist paradise approach which no one believes is true. Same with Iran's numbers being, shall we say, questionable etc. Hence even if you get some numbers they are most likely BS.

Country Confirmed deaths (absolute) Population (in millions) Deaths per million
Belgium 9,388 11.42 821.92
Spain 27,119 46.72 580.41
United Kingdom 37,837 66.49 569.07
Italy 33,142 60.43 548.42
France 28,625 66.99 427.32
Sweden 4,266 10.18 418.93
Netherlands 5,903 17.23 342.58
Ireland 1,639 4.85 337.69
United States 101,473 327.17 310.16
Switzerland 1,919 8.52 225.33
Ecuador 3,313 17.08 193.92
Canada 6,982 37.06 188.4
Portugal 1,369 10.28 133.15
Peru 4,099 31.99 128.14
Brazil 26,754 209.47 127.72
Germany 8,472 82.93 102.16
Denmark 568 5.8 97.97
Iran 7,627 81.8 93.24

Yep could well be reporting anomolies as Belgium is way out in front. Its on page 4 of the Irish Times. I would expect they should have not published the table at all. In an era of fake news and Trumpy twitters this only contributes to the sense that there is no truth at all and anyone can say anything they like

landofthetree

Nody wrote: »

Not sure what table you're using but here's a updated one. The problem with the numbers are however multiple. For starters Belgium for example reports everything that could even be remotely connected as Covid death; USA don't and they have an very significant increase in "seasonal influenza deaths" this year compared to earlier years. Basically think on how suicides were reported a few decades back with "accident by rope" or how UK only reported covid deaths if they died in hospitals but not care homes etc.

Secondly and this is the other part statistics reflect poorly in and of itself is what is the direction it's going in general. For example Corona cases are currently ramping up rapidly in Latin America were as in Europe it's slowing down (though the stop of lock down will see an increase for sure).

And of course the third issue partially tied to the first one; how reliable are the reported numbers in and of themselves? For example Venezuela claims only 10 deaths and 1121 cases in a magical communist paradise approach which no one believes is true. Same with Iran's numbers being, shall we say, questionable etc. Hence even if you get some numbers they are most likely BS.

Country Confirmed deaths (absolute) Population (in millions) Deaths per million
Belgium 9,388 11.42 821.92
Spain 27,119 46.72 580.41
United Kingdom 37,837 66.49 569.07
Italy 33,142 60.43 548.42
France 28,625 66.99 427.32
Sweden 4,266 10.18 418.93
Netherlands 5,903 17.23 342.58
Ireland 1,639 4.85 337.69
United States 101,473 327.17 310.16
Switzerland 1,919 8.52 225.33
Ecuador 3,313 17.08 193.92
Canada 6,982 37.06 188.4
Portugal 1,369 10.28 133.15
Peru 4,099 31.99 128.14
Brazil 26,754 209.47 127.72
Germany 8,472 82.93 102.16
Denmark 568 5.8 97.97
Iran 7,627 81.8 93.24

7 of the top 10 are in the EU.

Don't hear criticism in the Irish media especially about the uncaring Swedish left wing government.

ArmaniJeanss

Probably more suited to the specialist Covid forum.

But in general x per 1000 people isn't a particularly good way to compare countries when there is such a huge difference in population.
There's an inbuilt advantage to having a large population when we compare figures in this way.
This applies in the other direction as well - Irelands figures look superb compared to say San Marino.

Nody

landofthetree wrote: »

You can spin the stats many ways. The media hate Trump and the Brazilian president so they will use totals instead of per capita.

See table above, USA is not exactly doing brilliant when you count deaths per thousand citizens (which I hope you agree is a neutral way of doing it) and that's before their seasonal influenza increase is added to the US numbers; odd is it not how it suddenly deaths by influenza suddenly spiked this year by a significant factor at the same time covid 19 started running rampant...

The EU has a terrible death rate but that can't be question.

What exactly is horrible about it? Most EU countries have a better death to capita ratio than USA has currently and that's only going to improve in the months to come.

France,Spain,Germany, Belgium and Italy combined has more deaths than the USA with must less of a population.

Barely; there's less than 3000 deaths difference and USA is growing way faster than those countries in deaths per day atm. When the second wave comes USA will be much more badly hit by it as well because who needs social distancing anyway; but this can be seen as evolution in action since the once most likely to ignore it tends to be Trump supporters who thinks it all an deep state hoax of some form...

rossie1977

The reported US numbers are well off. The real number of cases snd deaths from Covid 19 is much higher while in Ireland and Belgium they are adding cases suspected of being Covid 19.

If Ireland reported cases and deaths like the US we would only have a fraction our current numbers.

I mean this is just one state. In Belgium every single person who died of pneumonia would be included as covid 19 death even if not tested

https://twitter.com/SquireForYou/status/1265553065056362497

landofthetree wrote: »

7 of the top 10 are in the EU.

Don't hear criticism in the Irish media especially about the uncaring Swedish left wing government.

Yes we hear about Sweden all the time and yet nobody on the street could name one member of Swedish government or opposition.

Swedens governments briefings are not beamed into our homes each night or are their actions playing a major role in our country's economy...

Madeleine Birchfield

What gets lost in these statistics is density; European countries are a lot more densely populated compared to the US and Brazil.

Truthvader

I suspected that the Times was not reliable. As per earlier post the real issue is the absence of any reliable news source on anything. This is the environment where any dangerous or foolish notion becomes just as "true" as bona fide information

Lyan

You will always get never ending logical acrobatics with this sort of thing rather than admittance of any flaws and mistakes.