Public Servants to work 20% from home

Kermit.de.frog

Working from home is probably not for everyone. Some might find it distracting and an unmotivational environment.

namloc1980

Dravokivich wrote: »

Rural hubs, so decentralisation by another name?

Not really. You could set up a hub in a rural town but the people working there could be from any department or government agency. You could have someone from the dept of agriculture processing admin tasks sitting next to someone from the revenue commissioners etc. Opens a whole new world of what it means to go to the office. With modern communications tech and collaboration processes there's really no need to have all your team sitting in one central building for many activities.

very disappointed in Coveney

unions in my place seem to be against this- it's a fairly conservative dept as a rule anyway, but the real blockers are the HR units across the entire service.

as a group they are morbidly frightened of change and the thought of anyone barking at them.

namloc1980

thenightman wrote: »

Not possible for majority of my office to work from home. Won't give access to sensitive systems outside the building in case a device its on is lost or stolen, and not allowed to take sensitive documents outside the building either. I'm sure quite a few departments in justice/AGS/Revenue/DSP would be similar.

Something like Citrix eliminates that issue largely. My Citrix access at home is more secure than when I access my PC at work. And I work in a data sensitive environment.

JohnnyFlash

I think the idea of hubs is a great one, and strikes a balance between the isolation of working from home on one hand, and having every government department and semi state HQ within a few blocks of each other in Dublin 2.

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Something like Citrix eliminates that issue largely. My Citrix access at home is more secure than when I access my PC at work. And I work in a data sensitive environment.

citrix and 2FA almost entirely eliminate any such concerns tbh

thenightman

thenightman wrote: »

Not possible for majority of my office to work from home. Won't give access to sensitive systems outside the building in case a device its on is lost or stolen, and not allowed to take sensitive documents outside the building either. I'm sure quite a few departments in justice/AGS/Revenue/DSP would be similar.

I’m same boat,,,have files/documents but can’t leave office with these sensitive items , but whose going to pay postage (a part of job - sending correspondence out and They’re hardly going to give Franking machines to each of us) I’m hardly going to go in daily just to as Pick up new files/documents which are being sent to me daily , Internet bills (siblings are working from home and bills have shot up), perhaps some don’t have laptops (more of an older generation)

Mrs OBumble

namloc1980 wrote: »

Not really. You could set up a hub in a rural town but the people working there could be from any department or government agency. You could have someone from the dept of agriculture processing admin tasks sitting next to someone from the revenue commissioners etc. Opens a whole new world of what it means to go to the office. With modern communications tech and collaboration processes there's really no need to have all your team sitting in one central building for many activities.

If they're working from a hub, they're not working from home.

Do we really think that the government should supply workers with two desks?

Only hiiring people who live close to the work location would give the environmental benefits without the extra hardware and security risks.

major interest

MegamanBoo wrote: »

Going by this article https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parties-agree-public-servants-could-work-from-home-one-day-a-week-1002573.html it would seem the government formation talks have agreed that all public servants should do 20% from home.

This is primarily to reduce c02 emissions and help rural Ireland where workers will be able to work from local innovation hubs.

Whatya all think?

Personally I think we should all be working from home, long term, where possible. It's such a criminal waste of c02. I think the idea of setting up rural hubs is brilliant and can't believe FG (weren't they a rural party?) went against it. In my experience if people want to be unproductive in the public service, or any large organisation, they'll get away with it one way or the other.

The general consensus in our place of work is that WFH has gone very smoothly. The end to end times for tasks haven’t been impacted and employee surveys would indicate that it suits a lot of people. I think flexible work arrangements will become the norm in many organisations so makes sense that it will also happen with public sector.

namloc1980

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If they're working from a hub, they're not working from home.

Do we really think that the government should supply workers with two desks?

Only hiiring people who live close to the work location would give the environmental benefits without the extra hardware and security risks.

Why would they need 2 desks? You reduce expensive Dublin city centre office space in favour of much cheaper space closer to home for commuters. I thought that would've been obvious. And then for others they could just be at home most of the time as well, depending on the type of work.

MegamanBoo

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

...

After a government is formed and if this is a part of the program for government and if it is deemed politically advantageous by the chosen cabinet then and only then will it begin to take shape.

At that stage all the relevant stakeholders would presumably have a representative group involved in discussions about how this would take shape.

.... This isn't so far being driven by pressure from public/civil servants or their representative unions.

I just don't think they're very clued in to how much political capital is at stake here. Introduce this fully across the public and private sectors you could reinvigorate rural Ireland and cut co2 by 10% (≈30% co2 comes from transport).

Personally I think we're looking at a few years with a lot of working from home anyway with Covid-19. So get the structures in place, do it right and make it a permanent change. It's the right thing to do and what the people want.

Jurgen Klopp

Whatever about working from home, don't be getting too exciting about using these "hubs" the council installed one in my small town same time eir was connecting up the last few houses outside it with fibre

The feckin hub that was "to help small businesses" and all that jazz wanted €50 a day from anyone using it absolute joke, it's sat empty for the 18 months it's been there and the ones invoked setting it up moaning to high heavens about why isn't it being used

Hopefully other ones are more value

namloc1980

namloc1980 wrote: »

Why would they need 2 desks? You reduce expensive Dublin city centre office space in favour of much cheaper space closer to home for commuters. I thought that would've been obvious. And then for others they could just be at home most of the time as well, depending on the type of work.

thirty years ago if youd said that every worker needed their own computer ppl wouldve looked at you like you were mad

thin clients, docking stations and laptops for all will all be standard infrastructure and equipment in ten years time

Calhoun

MegamanBoo wrote: »

Going by this article https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/parties-agree-public-servants-could-work-from-home-one-day-a-week-1002573.html it would seem the government formation talks have agreed that all public servants should do 20% from home.

This is primarily to reduce c02 emissions and help rural Ireland where workers will be able to work from local innovation hubs.

Whatya all think?

Personally I think we should all be working from home, long term, where possible. It's such a criminal waste of c02. I think the idea of setting up rural hubs is brilliant and can't believe FG (weren't they a rural party?) went against it. In my experience if people want to be unproductive in the public service, or any large organisation, they'll get away with it one way or the other.

I think its a great idea, but i have been working at home partially for a long time.

The lack of hour long commutes each way is great for you, however it would need to be offset with certain days in the office or a hub as you get cabin fever working from home all the time.

If covid has shown us anything it is that we are more than capable of doing more remote than ever before.

bloodless_coup

Working from home since march. The only one longing to be back in the office is the manager.

Fred Cryton

Mick McGraw wrote: »

I've been working from home for over 2 months and pretty much with the same level of efficiency as I did from the office.


Corona virus has proven that working form office 100% of the time is no longer necessary and employers should now be instructed that they should facilitate staff who wish to work from home more often.Obviously there will have to be some working from the office but anything that reduces the amount of commuting to work can only be good for the environment and peoples all round well being.


A huge amount of time has been added to my day since I've been forced to work from home it's going to be tough to readjust to working form the office 5 days per week.

BS. You might think that, but you're probably dossing watching youtube or Facebook or Twitter half the day. Employers are paying for your full attention, not half your attention.



There's a reason employers block these sites in the office.


In my experience there's a huge cohort of people if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. I'm sure they're putting in the hours now because it's novel but if it's permanent then expect 4 hour lunch breaks to become a thing.

BrianD3

Sounds like a load of rubbish - those who can work from home should be encouraged to do so a lot more than 20% of the time.

If the proposal is for 20% WFH averaged across the public service (i.e. with some WFH 100% of the time while others do 20% and others 0% ) then that makes more sense.

The public service needs to set an example here and demonstrate that it isn't stuck in the 1970s but sadly there are plenty of outdated and neurotic views in the PS. Plenty of "managers" who are both spineless and suspicious while others are just gagging to get their staff back into the office so that they can go back to printing emails "for the file". There's also an element of justifying ones existence and feeling important "look how many staff I have in the office" etc.

Sultan of Bling

Fred Cryton wrote:

In my experience there's a huge cohort of people if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. I'm sure they're putting in the hours now because it's novel but if it's permanent then expect 4 hour lunch breaks to become a thing.

Im working from home since March and loving it.

I'm lucky in the sense that i live a half an hour on foot from the office.

There would be many examples of the above in my place of work and i worry that they will f**k it up for everyone else.

It's so nice not having to listen to them moan and complain that they're so overworked while standing around the tea station for 45 mins.

Calhoun

BrianD3 wrote: »

Sounds like a load of rubbish - those who can work from home should be encouraged to do so a lot more than 20% of the time.

If the proposal is for 20% WFH averaged across the public service (i.e. with some WFH 100% of the time while others do 20% and others 0% ) then that makes more sense.

The public service needs to set an example here and demonstrate that it isn't stuck in the 1970s but sadly there are plenty of outdated and neurotic views in the PS. Plenty of "managers" who are both spineless and suspicious while others are just gagging to get their staff back into the office so that they can go back to printing emails "for the file". There's also an element of justifying ones existence and feeling important "look how many staff I have in the office" etc.

There are logistics to consider going 100% WFH which is why we could be seeing an eased in approach.

Employee subsidies, insurance, making sure the employee has the right kit to sit 8 hours a day at home. Allot of people in our company have been joining calls from kitchen tables or sitting on a chair with laptop on their laps.

There are also the HR factors to consider, motivation and mental health ect.

It definitely can be done but its easier said than done.

Fred Cryton

Fred Cryton wrote: »

BS. You might think that, but you're probably dossing watching youtube or Facebook or Twitter half the day. Employers are paying for your full attention, not half your attention.



There's a reason employers block these sites in the office.


In my experience there's a huge cohort of people if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. I'm sure they're putting in the hours now because it's novel but if it's permanent thethen expect 4 hour lunch breaks to become a thing.

Treat your staff like **** and you get the bare minimum from them and fair play to them if they do so.

I have full admin rights to my work provided laptop. I've worked from home since 2017 in a.security role and work with global clients, while the machines that my friend in revenue works on has no access to any site other than their internal intranet.

suicide_circus

why not do it on a voluntary basis?

suicide_circus

suicide_circus wrote: »

why not do it on a voluntary basis?

Article in the OP reads like it is

"Thousands of workers in departments and agencies will be offered the choice of working out of office, thereby saving costs and reducing carbon emissions with less traffic."

Have you heard different?

Jim Root

Fred Cryton wrote: »

BS. You might think that, but you're probably dossing watching youtube or Facebook or Twitter half the day. Employers are paying for your full attention, not half your attention.



There's a reason employers block these sites in the office.


In my experience there's a huge cohort of people if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. I'm sure they're putting in the hours now because it's novel but if it's permanent then expect 4 hour lunch breaks to become a thing.

I’m the opposite; more time to exercise, brilliant for mental health and ultimately work productivity

Padre_Pio

Jim Root wrote: »

I’m the opposite; more time to exercise, brilliant for mental health and ultimately work productivity

Likewise. I don't miss the social aspects too much. No more chat about football or the "any plans for the weekend" and "what did you get up to at weekend".

I'd do one or two days a week in an office max.
Bliss... :D

Pkiernan

Will working from home eat in to the 40 sick days year that they always seem to use up?

Calhoun

Jim Root wrote: »

I’m the opposite; more time to exercise, brilliant for mental health and ultimately work productivity

Its hard for authoritarian managers to see that point of view, they are so used to micromanaging the little people.

In reality their are productivity measure tools that are in place and most newer business run on a flat business model so are more collaborative.

You do need to have a system in place to make sure you get the best out of it but should not be because some small minded power tripping idiot doesn't trust staff.

Stovepipe

This is primarily to reduce c02 emissions and help rural Ireland where workers will be able to work from local innovation hubs.

this is primarily to reduce the cost of all the office space the Govt have hired all around the city and rural towns too. They have been handed a golden opportunity to dump the expensive office space costs. Let's see if they willgo through with it,on a real scale.

Fred Cryton

Calhoun wrote: »

Its hard for authoritarian managers to see that point of view, they are so used to micromanaging the little people.

In reality their are productivity measure tools that are in place and most newer business run on a flat business model so are more collaborative.

You do need to have a system in place to make sure you get the best out of it but should not be because some small minded power tripping idiot doesn't trust staff.

That's because a large cohort of the "little people" are sly chancers who need to be whipped into doing any work. You have no understanding of human nature, and of Irish people in particular, if you think otherwise.

Padre_Pio

Fred Cryton wrote: »

That's because a large cohort of the "little people" are sly chancers who need to be whipped into doing any work. You have no understanding of human nature, and of Irish people in particular, if you think otherwise.

And that cohort of people will have to be managed.

this isn't one rule for everyone. People who can prove they are productive can WFH. Everyone else gets into the office or gets let go, like any other under performing staff member.

I do think a combination of both is the sweet spot. One or two days in the office to touch base and keep some discipline. Three or four days at home.

Alf Veedersane

Padre_Pio wrote: »

And that cohort of people will have to be managed.

this isn't one rule for everyone. People who can prove they are productive can WFH. Everyone else gets into the office or gets let go, like any other under performing staff member.

I do think a combination of both is the sweet spot. One or two days in the office to touch base and keep some discipline. Three or four days at home.

Exactly. The output of people working from home can be assessed for the most part. It's relatively easy to see who does less at home and then you just bring them back in.