A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

Vestiapx

Hamsterchops wrote: »

km/h

...is the correct abbreviation.

its the SI abbreviation its not the only one

from wiki


Abbreviations for "kilometres per hour" did not appear in the English language until the late nineteenth century.

The kilometre, a unit of length, first appeared in English in 1810,[3] and the compound unit of speed "kilometers per hour" was in use in the US by 1866.[4] "Kilometres per hour" did not begin to be abbreviated in print until many years later, with several different abbreviations existing near-contemporaneously.

1889: "k. p. h."[5]
1895: "km:h"[6]
1898: "km/h"[7]
1899: "km./hr." [8]
1900: "kms./hr."[9]
1902: "k.m.p.h."[10]
1903: "KMph."[11]
1910: "km ph"[12]
1911: "K.P.H."[13]
1914: "km. hr."[14]
1915: "km/hour"[15]
1915: "km.-hr."[15]
1916: "km. per hour"[16]
1921: "kms/hr."[17]
1922: "Kmph"[18]
1927: "kmph."[19]
1933: "KPH"[20]
1939: "kmph"[21]

Vestiapx

Many other are commonly used, I don't understand why my use of it was the one needing correcting, all the above were before you posted so i assume you read them all and thought them ok.

I hope the new limits help save lives and encourage cycling and other non motorised and healthier modes of commuting.

I think the most affected will be the bus drivers and taxis who will now have to crawl along the bus lanes.

Dravokivich

Vestiapx wrote: »

I have an electric bike with narrow tyres its within the current legal spec, but its a very fast and easy way to get up to 25kmph and in can easilly do 35kmph.

I know this from using an app on my phone, I also know that if I'm overtaking all the 30kmph traffic that there will be a backlash from the anti cyclists. Will my bike then be MPV although I wont be using the power over 25kmph?

Then you've got a bike that's not legal.

Vestiapx

Dravokivich wrote: »

Then you've got a bike that's not legal.

I don't believe so, as long as the pedal assist cuts out at 25kmh-1 I think it's ok.

magicbastarder

any bike, e-bike or traditional pedal cycle can 'easily do 35km/h' - the limitation there is not the bike, it's the rider.

Dravokivich

Vestiapx wrote: »

I don't believe so, as long as the pedal assist cuts out at 25kmh-1 I think it's ok. I

Ah ok.

magicbastarder wrote: »

any bike, e-bike or traditional pedal cycle can 'easily do 35km/h' - the limitation there is not the bike, it's the rider.

If the e-bike is doing it. The issue is the bike needs tax and insurance, but there's no applicable tax category for it.

Hamsterchops

magicbastarder wrote: »

there are multiple correct abbreviations.
km/h is the SI unit, but since people know what is meant by kmph, it's not an issue.

OK then, so the new speed limit is 30 kmph which is the equivalent of 18 mphr

Hotblack Desiato

Dravokivich wrote: »

If the e-bike is doing it. The issue is the bike needs tax and insurance, but there's no applicable tax category for it.

Rider would also need motorcycle licence, IBT and a helmet

But an e-bike can't be type approved as a motorcycle - no proper headlights or brakes for starters - so can't be registered, taxed or insured.

Really p!sses me off, as a road-legal motorcyclist who pays a lot of money for gear and insurance, that some gits think it's ok to stick whatever size electric (or even petrol) motor into their pushbike and off they go. When they splatter themselves into the side of someone's car my insurance will be helping to pay for their stupidity. :mad:

Simple really, either stick to the law on pedal assisted cycles (you don't know how good you have it, really - no insurance, no helmet, no licence, no tax - and given the 25km/h law, that's all fine) or if that's not enough for your then get a moped or motorcycle and run that legally.

magicbastarder

i have once or twice seen lads with two stroke engines strapped to their garden gate 'having the chat' with gardai at the side of the road.
also was in my local bike shop and someone had dropped a similar bike in for repair - the extra speed meant extra braking, and he'd worn through his cheap rim which had collapsed.

Vestiapx

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Rider would also need motorcycle licence, IBT and a helmet

But an e-bike can't be type approved as a motorcycle - no proper headlights or brakes for starters - so can't be registered, taxed or insured.

Really p!sses me off, as a road-legal motorcyclist who pays a lot of money for gear and insurance, that some gits think it's ok to stick whatever size electric (or even petrol) motor into their pushbike and off they go. When they splatter themselves into the side of someone's car my insurance will be helping to pay for their stupidity. :mad:

Simple really, either stick to the law on pedal assisted cycles (you don't know how good you have it, really - no insurance, no helmet, no licence, no tax - and given the 25km/h law, that's all fine) or if that's not enough for your then get a moped or motorcycle and run that legally.

I've a K6 1000 but apparently my ebike will soon be a faster commuting tool.

kenmm

Vestiapx wrote: »

I know this from using an app on my phone, I also know that if I'm overtaking all the 30kmph traffic that there will be a backlash from the anti cyclists.

There won't be a backlash. If traffic isn't bad, then the flow normally exceeds the 30km/h limit in town.
I'd normally have the Garmin running, cycling above the limit and still be getting overtaken by most mechanical vehicles. Sometimes still getting beeped for (I guess) being too slow at ~35/40.. which is a good margin above.

Basically this whole thread is a waste of time. If the 30 limit is rolled out, it will likely be ignored after an initial period policing it. That's what happens with most traffic laws.

Dufflecoat Fanny

ive a 50 mile journey to dublin every day and ill be quitting my job if im made drive that silly speed. If i quit my job ill go hunting

Seth Brundle

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

ive a 50 mile journey to dublin every day and ill be quitting my job if im made drive that silly speed. If i quit my job ill go hunting

Presumably you will do most of those 50 miles outside of the proposed DCC 30km/h zone so chances are the bulk of your journey will be outside of the "silly speed".
You'll be the one making the choice to drive to your workplace so youre making the choice to become part of traffic and therefore part of those "silly speed" limits.
As for quitting your job and then going job hunting, it's strongly advised to seek a job while you have one rather than the other way around. But good luck in the interviews because I can see you being forced to follow the speeds even if you don't want to.
#NoSympathyAtAll

magicbastarder

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

If i quit my job ill go hunting

as an alternate way of feeding yourself?

as above, you *do* realise that the changes so far mooted are within the dublin city council area?

Stark

It'll probably work out better for people. Lower speed limits improve traffic flow when there's congestion and if people decide it's quicker to get an e-bike or whatever and commute in that way, then that means less traffic again.

Personally I'd much rather be doing 30km/hr at steady flow than to be averaging that speed (or less) doing stop start.

RobAMerc

people on this thread seem to be conversing about the 30kph speed limit like its some sort of measure, well thought out with a specific aim to achieve something regarding safety - on the contrary, its a measure brought in to do nothing else but frustrate and annoy the motorist. A measure devised by a group led by a cycling fundamentalist who wants to penalise anyone who dares to drive into the city, no matter what reason or valid their excuse.

magicbastarder

RobAMerc wrote: »

its a measure brought in to do nothing else but frustrate and annoy the motorist.

yes, that's *precisely* it.
dublin city council sit around all day doing nothing but thinking 'how do we troll motorists with persecution complexes?' and get great fun out of feeding their paranoid delusions.

Shefwedfan

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

ive a 50 mile journey to dublin every day and ill be quitting my job if im made drive that silly speed. If i quit my job ill go hunting

So one less car on the road. It is already working

RobAMerc

magicbastarder wrote: »

yes, that's *precisely* it.
dublin city council sit around all day doing nothing but thinking 'how do we troll motorists with persecution complexes?' and get great fun out of feeding their paranoid delusions.

nothing paranoid about it. Keegan wants to penalise motorists for even thinking about coming into his city in a car. Sure it will be a much better place when we all stay on the M50 going to shopping centres on the M50 living in housing estates built on the M50 - coz he doesnt want, cars in his city centre - thats just for cyclists ( but they are not allowed live there - he doesnt like tall buildings either )

double jobbing

donvito99 wrote: »

Is there anything to suggest that, if we return to pre-COVID levels of rush hour traffic, that the 30kph speed limit would make any difference to journey time at all?

Between 7am and 10am, and 4pm to 7pm, yes, you would be lucky to even get to 30 for any serious stretch.

It's the 18 other hours per day, and the 48 at the weekend, and the bank holiday Mondays, that make this law beyond thick. FFS there will be a short 30kph strip in Fairview where the bike path is on the footpath (although I suppose DCC is thinking about the cyclists who refuse to use this and demand their right to use the main road instead)

magicbastarder

double jobbing wrote: »

Between 7am and 10am, and 4pm to 7pm, yes, you would be lucky to even get to 30 for any serious stretch.

It's the 18 other hours per day, and the 48 at the weekend, and the bank holiday Mondays, that make this law beyond thick.

at the moment, google maps is showing a travel time in a car on the N1, from Arran Quay to the junction at whitehall, of 9 minutes. that's a journey of 4.7km.
here's the funny thing - at most, these changes affect 2.2km of that (out as far as whitworth road, as far as i can see), so add one minute and forty five seconds to the journey time - max. that is comparing being able to drive that full 2.2km at 50km/h unimpeded, to doing the same at 30km/h, and lights and congestion will reduce the gap.

there are 15 sets of lights between arran quay and the bottom of whitworth road. you tell me what is the predominant differentiator between how fast you can get between those two points - the fact that you've to pass through 15 sets of lights, or whether you hit a max of 50km/h or 30km/h on the way?

in short, get off the cross.

magicbastarder

RobAMerc wrote: »

Keegan wants to penalise motorists for even thinking about coming into his city in a car.

getting back to this. you claim the goal is 'nothing else' but to piss off motorists.

plenty of cities around the world have been addressing the cost of providing for people who want/expect to be able to take their one and a half tons of private property into densely populated areas, and to have places to store them for hours on end, during which time they provide no function (except maybe to use up valuable space and drive up land prices). some cities tried banning cars depending on their number plates, others introduced congestion charges. dublin is just a little behind the curve on this.

the private car is a horribly inefficient way of moving people around, and cities are trying to discourage car use, not to piss off motorists, but to create space for non-motorists and residents, and to make public transport and other forms of transport more efficient or palatable.

the thing about private cars is that they're great for everyone sitting in them, and a pox on everyone not in them. noise, space, danger, pollution, you name it. the costs of the private car are largely externalised on those not travelling in them, and the balance is simply swinging away from that cost. and as above, they're not even that quick in an urban environment.

for the average ICE powered private car in the city centre (i mention the city centre specifically because the average occupancy of a private car in the city centre is approx 1.25), about 95% of the pollution it produces is sheer waste. they're about 5% efficient. it's pollution created by moving the car itself around, and lost to the inefficiencies of the engine itself, and not actually moving the occupants around.

Dufflecoat Fanny

I'm a construction worker that visits sites in the city centre and I live in westmeath. I'm already spending 3 hours a day minimum driving to a site and last thursday had to pay 35 quid for parking near the north wall. There are thousands like me commuting like this and have no other choice. If it gets any more punative I'm not taking anymore work in the the city.

double jobbing

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

I'm a construction worker that visits sites in the city centre and I live in westmeath. I'm already spending 3 hours a day minimum driving to a site and last thursday had to pay 35 quid for parking near the north wall. There are thousands like me commuting like this and have no other choice. If it gets any more punative I'm not taking anymore work in the the city.

A construction worker?

Eeew. You're a bit too working class, a bit rough and ready for the Greens to care about.

I'll bet you and the lads in the canteen crack the odd uncouth remark. As far as the Greens are concerned Dublin could do without your type.

It is actually so disheartening to see how little of a **** these people give about our free time, our personal lives. They live within 5km of town, they cycle, thus I'm Alright Jack.

Shefwedfan

RobAMerc wrote: »

nothing paranoid about it. Keegan wants to penalise motorists for even thinking about coming into his city in a car. Sure it will be a much better place when we all stay on the M50 going to shopping centres on the M50 living in housing estates built on the M50 - coz he doesnt want, cars in his city centre - thats just for cyclists ( but they are not allowed live there - he doesnt like tall buildings either )

Cars don’t belong in built up city centres. Especially when people seem to have no consideration for anyone but themselves.

Ban them outright and make a nice centre centre for people and tourists

Dufflecoat Fanny

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Cars don’t belong in built up city centres. Especially when people seem to have no consideration for anyone but themselves.

Ban them outright and make a nice centre centre for people and tourists

I agree but how on earth are we supposed to build this utopia if you keep me from getting in?

Shefwedfan

Dufflecoat Fanny wrote: »

I agree but how on earth are we supposed to build this utopia if you keep me from getting in?

First off what do you need to build?

Second how are you stopped getting in?

double jobbing

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Cars don’t belong in built up city centres. Especially when people seem to have no consideration for anyone but themselves.

Ban them outright and make a nice centre centre for people and tourists

So how should one drive from Coolock to Stillorgan off peak?

M50 route burns more petrol so there's the Greens environmental argument out the window.

A cross city tunnel would be nice but with COVID19 we might get one by the year 2367.

Chips Lovell

RobAMerc wrote: »

A measure devised by a group led by a cycling fundamentalist who wants to penalise anyone who dares to drive into the city, no matter what reason or valid their excuse.

There's no need to sneer at him just because he identifies as a cyclist.

Cookie_Monster

tbh it is sort of a flawed plan, a blanket 30pkh limit punishes bus users as well. the limit should only apply to to private vehicles and PT should be exempt and be 50 or 60 where it currently is (or where there are dedicated bus lanes at the very least)