A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

begbysback wrote: »

With no other traffic around, dry road, well lit, around 50/60 kph

So 167-200% of the speed limit is acceptable?

What if I don't feel like breaking the law.

Speed limits don't apply to pedal cycles. So they can roll past if they want.

magicbastarder

do people realise quite how much noise a car makes at 60km/h?
i live on a busy main road with a 50km/h limit - and hands up, i moved here in full knowledge of that - it's amazing that a car carrying a single person past the house at 50km/h probably makes as much noise as a group of a dozen teenagers walking past on the footpath.

but society has reached the conclusion that the noise from the teenagers is a greater issue than some motorist who needs to be able to get home 2 minutes earlier than they otherwise should have. such is life.

begbysback

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

So 167-200% of the speed limit is acceptable?

What if I don't feel like breaking the law.

Speed limits don't apply to pedal cycles. So they can roll past if they want.

No road which currently has a 50 or 60 kph speed limit needs it reduced to 30 for safety reasons, with unique or rare exceptions, just because someone says it should now be 30 doesn’t mean that 50 or 60 is unsafe or unreasonable, it just means some idiot has fcuk all else to do with their time so they think change implies additional safety, well news flash - it doesn’t.

begbysback

magicbastarder wrote: »

do people realise quite how much noise a car makes at 60km/h?
i live on a busy main road with a 50km/h limit - and hands up, i moved here in full knowledge of that - it's amazing that a car carrying a single person past the house at 50km/h probably makes as much noise as a group of a dozen teenagers walking past on the footpath.

but society has reached the conclusion that the noise from the teenagers is a greater issue than some motorist who needs to be able to get home 2 minutes earlier than they otherwise should have. such is life.

So, rather than getting triple glazing in to sort your problem, you would like the rest of society drive slower whilst cruising past?

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

begbysback wrote: »

So, rather than getting triple glazing in to sort your problem, you would like the rest of society drive slower whilst cruising past?

Ah here. There's no talking to you.

magicbastarder

yeah, the expense of several thousand euro should be on me so someone can get home two minutes earlier.
FWIW, triple glazing on its own is overrated. what you need is panes of varying thicknesses, and one laminated for extra soundproofing. i know this from experience.

and yes, i *would* like the rest of society to drive slower past my house, that's a trivial conclusion to draw if i support 30km/h limits (which are not currently proposed for the road in question)

John_Rambo

begbysback wrote: »

Look, if I’m stuck behind you traveling at 20kph, and I’m watching cyclists cruise past, I’m gonna stick my front bumper into your rear and gently nudge you up to a generally acceptable speed.

Ah come on, grow up, get real & cop on, this is classic 'internet tough guy talk', you've never done this and you're never going to do this in real life. You'll either stay behind the slow driver or carry out a safe overtake and carry on like any mature adult.

Stop talking ****e .

begbysback

To those people worried about carbon emissions, the ozone layer, and the rainforests, I say to yee, don’t worry, man will never make it as far as using up all of the planets resources, as common sense, rational thinking, and intelligence are concepts lost, and such lacking will kill us off in the not too distant future.

begbysback

John_Rambo wrote: »

Ah come on, grow up, get real & cop on, this is classic 'internet tough guy talk', you've never done this and you're never going to do this in real life. You'll either stay behind the slow driver or carry out a safe overtake and carry on like any mature adult.

Stop talking ****e .

You just make sure it’s not you in my way, otherwise it’s John Sambo.

begbysback

begbysback wrote: »

So, rather than getting triple glazing in to sort your problem, you would like the rest of society drive slower whilst cruising past?

Completely unrelated, but for some reason that reminded me of this.

I remember a few years ago I lived with a friend, his house was on a busy road at the entrance to the nearest town. Its a 50kph stretch and there was a fairly dulled background noise of traffic, but it disappeared after 20 minutes in the house as you just adjusted to it. I slept in the front room (the room that overlooks the road) and other than the odd truck passing by, you would completely forget about the traffic noise altogether.

He was always giving out about it to the council. He said it was driving him mad having to listen to cars and (the occasional) truck passing by. He got onto the council saying it was a safety issue as there are kids living on that stretch etc.


I moved out since, but he was telling me ages ago that the council agreed to speed ramp the area and he was delighted. Said it was much much better now that cars aren't 'speeding by' all the time. I was over in his house recently and it's just a non-stop, constant 'thud-thud' over and over again of cars banging off the ramps and then the engines revving up as everyone goes straight back to their normal speed again.

The noise from trucks and trailers clattering and banging over it and then revving up, or the odd car with screechy brakes. It's horrible now.

But he will never admit he was wrong. He still maintains it's much better now than it was before, despite that clearly not being the case.

John_Rambo

begbysback wrote: »

You just make sure it’s not you in my way, otherwise it’s John Sambo.

All talk, no action. Talk all about it, never going to do it.... internet tough guy.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Completely unrelated, but for some reason that reminded me of this.

I remember a few years ago I lived with a friend, his house was on a busy road at the entrance to the nearest town. Its a 50kph stretch and there was a fairly dulled background noise of traffic, but it disappeared after 20 minutes in the house as you just adjusted to it. I slept in the front room (the room that overlooks the road) and other than the odd truck passing by, you would completely forget about the traffic noise altogether.

He was always giving out about it to the council. He said it was driving him mad having to listen to cars and (the occasional) truck passing by. He got onto the council saying it was a safety issue as there are kids living on that stretch etc.


I moved out since, but he was telling me ages ago that the council agreed to speed ramp the area and he was delighted. Said it was much much better now that cars aren't 'speeding by' all the time. I was over in his house recently and it's just a non-stop, constant 'thud-thud' over and over again of cars banging off the ramps and then the engines revving up as everyone goes straight back to their normal speed again.

The noise from trucks and trailers clattering and banging over it and then revving up, or the odd car with screechy brakes. It's horrible now.

But he will never admit he was wrong. He still maintains it's much better now than it was before, despite that clearly not being the case.

That's why average speed cameras are better.

20 km/h-30km/h is a perfectly sufficient speed to arrive on time and in a relaxed frame of mind.

begbysback

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

That's why average speed cameras are better.

20 km/h-30km/h is a perfectly sufficient speed to arrive on time and in a relaxed frame of mind.

Seriously, have you completely just missed the point, or is this a troll?

Tea drinker

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

20 km/h-30km/h is a perfectly sufficient speed to arrive on time and in a relaxed frame of mind.

to what? to where? over how long a journey? If driving to the shop 2 mins down the road then fine, but 20 km/h (max speed not average) is probably unsuited to crossing the city.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS! wrote: »

20 km/h-30km/h is a perfectly sufficient speed to arrive on time and in a relaxed frame of mind.

Yeah but your legs would be tired from cycling.

If you're in a car, 50-60 kph be grand.

Hairy Japanese BASTARDS!

Tea drinker wrote: »

to what? to where? over how long a journey? If driving to the shop 2 mins down the road then fine, but 20 km/h (max speed not average) is probably unsuited to crossing the city.

Through towns.

Skerries, Swords, Santry etc.

micar

begbysback wrote: »

Look, if I’m stuck behind you traveling at 20kph, and I’m watching cyclists cruise past, I’m gonna stick my front bumper into your rear and gently nudge you up to a generally acceptable speed.

And queue a whiplash insurance claim.....bye bye no claims bonus and hello to higher insurance premium.......hope it was worth it.

begbysback

micar wrote: »

And queue a whiplash insurance claim.....bye bye no claims bonus and hello to higher insurance premium.......hope it was worth it.

Yea like it was intended as a joke, hjb is known for driving overly slowly, driving miss daisy like.

Duckjob

magicbastarder wrote: »

why are you so worried about 30km/h limits? it's like complaing that restaurant X only serves 48oz steaks, but restaurant Y serves 64 oz steaks. the practical difference is minimal.

I'd hazard a guess those whining the loudest about it are already very used to completely ignoring the existing limit when they can get away with it.

The mindset change for them, of having to adhere to a new 30kph (assuming proper enforcement) is decidedly non-minimal.

begbysback

Duckjob wrote: »

I'd hazard a guess those whining the loudest about it are already very used to completely ignoring the existing limit when they can get away with it.

The mindset change for them, of having to adhere to a new 30kph (assuming proper enforcement) is decidedly non-minimal.

Or maybe it’s the reasoning behind the reduction, guy earlier thinks the traffic is too noisy at 50, let’s lower it to 30, guy in a council office with nothing to do, hey let’s lower it to 30, the standard of driving on Irish roads is appalling, hey let’s lower it to 30, need to bring in more funding, hey let’s lower it to 30, this could go on and on.

Duckjob

Unfortunately, I don't think 30kph limits are their own are going to be that effective, unless you have proper enforcement, and enforcement is something we really suck at in Ireland.

To do it properly, follow what the Dutch do - change the streetscape so that the speed you want drivers to drive at is self-enforced through the streetscape design- narrow roads, chicanes, street furniture like plants and trees, raised areas with paved stones (increases road noise in the car and signals to driver slower speed is approriate) , raised areas at junctions etc etc.

At the same time, give the space over to other methods for people to get around - walking, cycling and good public transport links. You need to tip the balance of convenience firmly in favour of these over the car.

The Dutch have mastered this method and the results are really obvious. Go to Amsterdam (or any Dutch city) and observe the driving style. There's a calmness and maturity from people driving in the cities there that is a complete contrast with what's on show in Dublin for example, where people are racing to get to the next red light.

magicbastarder

Tea drinker wrote: »

to what? to where? over how long a journey? If driving to the shop 2 mins down the road then fine, but 20 km/h (max speed not average) is probably unsuited to crossing the city.

travelling 10km (which is probably the absolute maximum distance anyone crossing the city could be affected by these changes) at 50km/h without stopping would take 12 minutes. 20 minutes at 30kmh.
that's the absolute max difference; traffic and traffic lights drag the actual difference *way* down. at the moment - a quiet enough saturday morning traffic wise, you will be hard pressed to reach a 30km/h average crossing the city.

in short, it's not the speed limit which slows you down in the car. it's other traffic.

Duckjob

begbysback wrote: »

Or maybe it’s the reasoning behind the reduction, guy earlier thinks the traffic is too noisy at 50, let’s lower it to 30, guy in a council office with nothing to do, hey let’s lower it to 30, the standard of driving on Irish roads is appalling, hey let’s lower it to 30, need to bring in more funding, hey let’s lower it to 30, this could go on and on.

Doesn't matter what people individually might want out of it - the scientific data on the safety effects of allowing different vehicle speeds in areas where they mix with people is widely known and accepted.

begbysback

Duckjob wrote: »

Doesn't matter what people individually might want out of it - the scientific data on the safety effects of allowing different vehicle speeds in areas where they mix with people is widely known and accepted.

Yea, and what does the data say about cases where strict and enforced guidelines are applied to cyclists, does the safety of cyclists then improve?

magicbastarder

you can relax, the death rate from cyclists killing other road users in urban contexts remains stubbornly at zero.

or in other words - this is a thread about speed limits for cars. cycling is irrelevant.

begbysback

magicbastarder wrote: »

you can relax, the death rate from cyclists killing other road users in urban contexts remains stubbornly at zero.

or in other words - this is a thread about speed limits for cars. cycling is irrelevant.

Cycling is very much relevant in the discussion if the reasoning behind lowering the speed limit is due mixed modes of transport. I’ve nothing against cyclists, but if cyclists being reckless is the cause of reducing speed limit then we obviously have to first ask can we choose an alternative solution, maybe have safer guidelines for cyclists.

And the number of pedestrians killed by cyclists certainly isn’t zero my friend, and the number of cyclists who cause their own demise certainly isn’t at zero either. No disrespect to any who have lost loved ones, but facts are facts.

magicbastarder

begbysback wrote: »

And the number of pedestrians killed by cyclists certainly isn’t zero my friend

there's one case from about 2002. the year on year rate has remained at zero for nearly two decades.

the thread is about speed limits for motorised vehicles. to be fair, i'm rather stupidly responding to your attempt at deflection.

AndrewJRenko

begbysback wrote: »

Cycling is very much relevant in the discussion if the reasoning behind lowering the speed limit is due mixed modes of transport. I’ve nothing against cyclists, but if cyclists being reckless is the cause of reducing speed limit then we obviously have to first ask can we choose an alternative solution, maybe have safer guidelines for cyclists.

And the number of pedestrians killed by cyclists certainly isn’t zero my friend, and the number of cyclists who cause their own demise certainly isn’t at zero either. No disrespect to any who have lost loved ones, but facts are facts.

How exactly did you get from 'cycling' to 'cyclists being reckless' please?

Just to be clear, cyclists are the smallest category of road deaths and injuries. Most road deaths and injuries are motorists killing other motorists and passengers. Cyclists are not the common denominator in road deaths.

You're right to say that the number of pedestrians killed by cyclists isn't zero. The number of pedestrians killed by cyclists in the last 20 years is two. The number of people killed by motorists over the same period is around 4,000. That might help you to understand the actual source of danger on the reoads.

Can you point to any specific examples of cyclists who caused their own demise? I'm aware of a tiny number of such cases, but perhaps I've missed some. I'd be interested in more detail on your facts here.

magicbastarder

****, he's succeeded at derailing the thread. we're our own worst enemy.

magicbastarder

anyway, other countries have successfully implemented 30km/h limits - graz in austria managed it nearly 30 years ago.
in munich, 80% of roads have the limit applied. i don't think society has collapsed there.