A 30 KPH limit for Dublin

kenmm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Unless you take cars off the road public transport won’t work, unfortunately it’s a chicken and egg situation.

You will be here in 30 years having the same discussion, better just to implement it and suck it and see. Most “problems” are easily resolved and the results would be incredible for Ireland and Dublin

What are you on about? It's not chicken and egg. You can discourage car use AND improve alternatives at the same time.

I'm not against the 30km/h limit (it will be largely ignored anyway). I'm against it on its own. Discouraging city centre car use is a start, but a lot more needs to be done to Improve moving around this city.

Especially when all this construction work add **** knows how many more offices and flats.

machiavellianme

Podge_irl wrote: »

And its the extra 3 minutes maximum that these measures entail that will stop you ever working in the city again?

Your hypothesis is incorrect.
Depending on the distance travelled, the time taken increases.
For example, reducing from 50kph to 30kph to travel 3.75km would take you an extra 3 minutes as suggested, but to travel 5km would take you an extra 4 minutes which breaches your 3 minutes maximum (assuming everything else is equal, such as no extra traffic lights etc).

Shefwedfan

kenmm wrote: »

What are you on about? It's not chicken and egg. You can discourage car use AND improve alternatives at the same time.

I'm not against the 30km/h limit (it will be largely ignored anyway). I'm against it on its own. Discouraging city centre car use is a start, but a lot more needs to be done to Improve moving around this city.

Especially when all this construction work add **** knows how many more offices and flats.

Sitting for 2 hours per trip and 4 hours daily you think would discourage people but no they continue day in day out


Shuttimg down lanes to decrease bus journey time and increase car jourmey times


A port tunnel which costs 10 euro but now you have traffic jams in it.


How are you going to discourage?

Tokyo

Mod: @Dufflecoat Fanny - Don't post in the thread again.

magicbastarder

machiavellianme wrote: »

For example, reducing from 50kph to 30kph to travel 3.75km would take you an extra 3 minutes as suggested, but to travel 5km would take you an extra 4 minutes which breaches your 3 minutes maximum (assuming everything else is equal, such as no extra traffic lights etc).

let's take the example of someone coming in from kilbeggan; what route do they take and what distance would they have to travel?
is there actually an extra 5km of roads dropping from 50 to 30 on that trip?
there was already a statement made i think that the round trip was already three hours, so the extra four minutes each way would add a theoretical max of 8 minutes to that three hours.

but; this isn't just about slowing down cars, it's a general move to try to make other forms (primarily cycling, walking, PT) more amenable and if that works, there would be fewer cars on the road, opening up traffic.

again, it just seems to me that complaining about these speed restrictions in dublin city is like complaining that the restaurant you go to has reduced their portion size from one and a half times what you can physically eat, to one which is 'only' the maximum of what you can physically eat.

magicbastarder

looking at the map, if i am reading it correctly, it seems most of the arterial routes approaching from the north are still 50 or above (navan road to cabra road junction, N2 to past glasnevin cemetery, ballymun road to griffith avenue, N1 to the canal, howth road to fairview, and the malahide road to coolock seems to be the one most restricted).
the chapelizod bypass and crumlin road also seem unaffected. seems that the direction with least options is coming from the south east - but you will be able to get in as far as donnybrook or merrion gates on a 50km/h speed limit. the notion that being restricted to 30km/h between donnybrook and the city centre is some major imposition, is kinda laughable.

kenmm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

How are you going to discourage?

The 30km/h is the discouragement, which on its own is worth fu(k all (in my opinion) a it will be largely ignored in reality. The only way would be via large scale bans or congestion charging etc with large areas closed off. But even this takes time, investment and probably a bunch of fights with all sorts of other groups (business owners) etc. Probably a vote loser, which
seems to dictate most policy in Ireland (rather than doing research and finding what would be best for the city).

In an ideal world, we would build more transport options (because we want our cities full of people, business to grow, jobs created etc). That would mean huge expansion of Dublin bike, improved rail (maybe even underground options), more frequent and better bus system. A congestion charge that is fair* (tough one, as those with money will pay it anyway, those that really need a car will be screwed over).

Oh and all of this is to be free as well.

Shefwedfan

kenmm wrote: »

The 30km/h is the discouragement, which on its own is worth fu(k all (in my opinion) a it will be largely ignored in reality. The only way would be via large scale bans or congestion charging etc with large areas closed off. But even this takes time, investment and probably a bunch of fights with all sorts of other groups (business owners) etc. Probably a vote loser, which
seems to dictate most policy in Ireland (rather than doing research and finding what would be best for the city).

In an ideal world, we would build more transport options (because we want our cities full of people, business to grow, jobs created etc). That would mean huge expansion of Dublin bike, improved rail (maybe even underground options), more frequent and better bus system. A congestion charge that is fair* (tough one, as those with money will pay it anyway, those that really need a car will be screwed over).

Oh and all of this is to be free as well.

From a business/shop owner point of view shutting down the city centre will increase footfall. Families would have more interest in going into the city if they didnt have to breathe in fumes from cars and watch for some lunatic who thinks the traffic lights mean you need to go faster to break them. Imagine having the ability to walk from O'Connell street up past trinity and to grafton street and down to Aviva without dodging cars every 5 seconds.



Even from a cyclist point of view with no cars you would do it in 10-15 mins without the cars trying to kill you


I thought a congestion charge would work but then you see a traffic jam in the port tunnel. So what would congestion charge be set up 10? 20? personally I would set it to 30. All the money is invested into public transport.



Dublin bikes could be upgraded in a week. Introduce a proper systemn with elkectric scooters like the rest of Europe has. Loads of options available.

kenmm

Shefwedfan wrote: »

From a business/shop owner point of view shutting down the city centre will increase footfall. Families would have more interest in going into the city if they didnt have to breathe in fumes from cars and watch for some lunatic who thinks the traffic lights mean you need to go faster to break them. Imagine having the ability to walk from O'Connell street up past trinity and to grafton street and down to Aviva without dodging cars every 5 seconds.



Even from a cyclist point of view with no cars you would do it in 10-15 mins without the cars trying to kill you


I thought a congestion charge would work but then you see a traffic jam in the port tunnel. So what would congestion charge be set up 10? 20? personally I would set it to 30. All the money is invested into public transport.



Dublin bikes could be upgraded in a week. Introduce a proper systemn with elkectric scooters like the rest of Europe has. Loads of options available.

Exactly - so doing one thing (30 limit) alone isn't enough (although maybe there are more plans in the pipeline anyway, who knows).

Research and invest, that's what's needed. Find out the facts and model/ test this.

Shefwedfan

kenmm wrote: »

Exactly - so doing one thing (30 limit) alone isn't enough (although maybe there are more plans in the pipeline anyway, who knows).

Research and invest, that's what's needed. Find out the facts and model/ test this.

But they have tested for year, as far as I know IBM done a huge smarter cities plan for Dublin. It was mentioned somewhere a few years back. The whole point of that project was to tell DCC how to change traffic etc. I don't know what the output was


But they are constantly monitoring traffic in Dublin. You would expect they have the information at this stage.


The 30km is good from the point of view of safety but I doubt it will have any affect on numbers. Actually I know it will have no affect on cars. People wont give a crap, they will just hope they Garda dont catch them. Same as all the people who jump in and out of bus lanes

magicbastarder

kenmm wrote: »

Exactly - so doing one thing (30 limit) alone isn't enough

i don't think anyone is claiming that this on its own is a solution, though. it just happens to be one you can implement quickly and with little infrastructural investment.

Podge_irl

magicbastarder wrote: »

i don't think anyone is claiming that this on its own is a solution, though. it just happens to be one you can implement quickly and with little infrastructural investment.

And I have little doubt that every single one of the other measures they implement will be similarly challenged.

PommieBast

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Cars don’t belong in built up city centres. Especially when people seem to have no consideration for anyone but themselves.

Ban them outright and make a nice centre centre for people and tourists

As a pedestrian I think cyclists should be banned. At least drivers stay on the road and usually pay attention to things like red lights.

Seth Brundle

PommieBast wrote: »

As a pedestrian I think cyclists should be banned. At least drivers stay on the road and usually pay attention to things like red lights.

Here we go again :rolleyes:

Chiparus

PommieBast wrote: »

As a pedestrian I think cyclists should be banned. At least drivers stay on the road and usually pay attention to things like red lights.

No need for go safe cameras then, they will never catch anything.

https://www.thejournal.ie/county-breakdown-penalty-points-ireland-2019-4873575-Dec2019/

Shefwedfan

PommieBast wrote: »

As a pedestrian I think cyclists should be banned. At least drivers stay on the road and usually pay attention to things like red lights.

If you walk along in the middle of the road like most people do in the bicycle lane expect the cars to be an issue as well

I know it’s dufficult to see the monster bicycles painted on the road while you walk along with your head stick in a phone

magicbastarder

PommieBast wrote: »

drivers ... usually pay attention to things like red lights.

damning with faint praise, eh?

kenmm

magicbastarder wrote: »

damning with faint praise, eh?

And 'usually' meaning not the first or last 5 seconds of red (i.e. just after they go red, or just before they change again)!

jams100

Shefwedfan wrote: »

But they have tested for year, as far as I know IBM done a huge smarter cities plan for Dublin. It was mentioned somewhere a few years back. The whole point of that project was to tell DCC how to change traffic etc. I don't know what the output was


But they are constantly monitoring traffic in Dublin. You would expect they have the information at this stage.


The 30km is good from the point of view of safety but I doubt it will have any affect on numbers. Actually I know it will have no affect on cars. People wont give a crap, they will just hope they Garda dont catch them. Same as all the people who jump in and out of bus lanes

What happens if a garda member sets up a speed check in a 30 zone catches a few drivers doing lets say 37/38 yet cyclists who might be doing the exact same speed are let go? There'd be uproar!
30km/h makes sense only in specific areas like parts of the quays near happeny bridge, O'Connell street, parnell street, Jervis street, dawson street and some residential areas etc.
A 30km/h speed limit on the Merrion road and around pearse street, mount street, James' street and Mountbrown makes no sense, especially so at night. If common sense isn't applied to where 30km/h speed limits are placed its simple: people won't comply with it

magicbastarder

jams100 wrote: »

What happens if a garda member sets up a speed check in a 30 zone catches a few drivers doing lets say 37/38 yet cyclists who might be doing the exact same speed are let go? There'd be uproar!

there may be, would it be justified?
the gardai can't stop the cyclists for speeding anyway, it's going to be pretty rare, and pandering to public 'uproar' which ignores the difference between someone in a one and a half ton vehicle doing 38km/h to someone on a 15kg vehicle doing 38km/h, is a weird thing to pander to.

AndrewJRenko

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

They are clearly not getting enough cash from catching people speeding.

The GoSafe contract costs the State about €10m a year more to run than it brings in on fines. That's a couple of schools not being built each year because drivers can't be arsed obeying speed limits.

double jobbing wrote: »

Where is here?

To think the law is being brought in for the benefit of cyclists. The biggest bunch of rulebreaking ignorant no test no taxed ****ers on the road.

We have 98% of drivers breaking urban speed limits in the recent RSA Speed Survey, so you might want to review your 'biggest bunch of rulebreaking' comments.

I'm delighted to hear that I don't have to pay tax though. Where do I apply for a refund on all my tax paid last year please?

ceadaoin. wrote: »

Not really. Ive no problem maintaing a constant speed in a normal speed zone but its an effort to maintain such a low speed. I drive an automatic and any pressure on the accelerator for more than 2 seconds would have it going faster than that. Very easy to unintentionally go faster, hence the need to monitor it.

How do you manage to get around in car parks?

PommieBast wrote: »

As a pedestrian I think cyclists should be banned. At least drivers stay on the road and usually pay attention to things like red lights.

Drivers kill on average close to one pedestrian each week on average. And have a look through these photos and tell me again about how drivers stay on the road? https://twitter.com/search?q=%23makewayday&src=typed_query&f=image

jams100

magicbastarder wrote: »

there may be, would it be justified?
the gardai can't stop the cyclists for speeding anyway, it's going to be pretty rare, and pandering to public 'uproar' which ignores the difference between someone in a one and a half ton vehicle doing 38km/h to someone on a 15kg vehicle doing 38km/h, is a weird thing to pander to.

Stand on dame street and watch cyclists speed coming on the downhill stretch from Christchurch. I'm not an anti-cyclist by any means, earlier in this thread I was asking why it takes 4 years to build a cycle lane on the quays? Somethings just have to be gotten on with but I stand by my point if I was caught doing 37 at 8am on Sunday morning and a cyclist doing the same speed was let go I'd be furious (I would be in the bracket of a safe driver btw, very rarely break speed limits no penalty points etc). My overall point is that a blanket 30km/h speed limit is ridiculous

AndrewJRenko

kenmm wrote: »

And 'usually' meaning not the first or last 5 seconds of red (i.e. just after they go red, or just before they change again)!

I dunno.

https://twitter.com/AlanDub13/status/1268603780548964354?s=20

AndrewJRenko

jams100 wrote: »

Stand on dame street and watch cyclists speed coming on the downhill stretch from Christchurch. I'm not an anti-cyclist by any means, earlier in this thread I was asking why it takes 4 years to build a cycle lane on the quays? Somethings just have to be gotten on with but I stand by my point if I was caught doing 37 at 8am on Sunday morning and a cyclist doing the same speed was let go I'd be furious (I would be in the bracket of a safe driver btw, very rarely break speed limits no penalty points etc). My overall point is that a blanket 30km/h speed limit is ridiculous

You understand the difference in danger to others between being hit by a 1-3 tonne vehicle and being hit by a 10-20kg bike?

jams100

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

You understand the difference in danger to others between being hit by a 1-3 tonne vehicle and being hit by a 10-20kg bike?

They are both bad!
Obviously a car would appear to be worse, they could both give bad injuries either way.
Again to get back on topic, an overall blanket 30km/h speed limit just doesn't make sense and won't be obeyed.

kenmm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I dunno.

https://twitter.com/AlanDub13/status/1268603780548964354?s=20

It was a generalisation and slightly flippant / attempt at adding some humour to yet another motorists vs cyclist bs thread.

Generally tho motorists who do RLJ do so around sequence change time (extended amber gambling). Cyclists who do it, generally do it at anytime if there is no oncoming traffic. There are always exceptions and some motorists and cyclist even stop on red!

But this mess of a thread was about speed limits, there are 1 million driver/cyclist/red light/scooter/ threads already.

magicbastarder

jams100 wrote: »

They are both bad!
Obviously a car would appear to be worse

*appear* to be worse?

and yes, they are both bad but just because they are on a continuum does not mean they should be treated equally. for example, certain heavy vehicles have special lower speed limits which apply to them, and this is accepted as sensible.

FWIW, a car travelling at 38km/h (assumed total weight of car, contents, and occupants=1,500kg) has the same kinetic energy as a cyclist (total weight 100KG) doing 150km/h.

Experience_day

30 is a retarded speed. Hopping around in 1st 2nd gear? Good way to burn more fuel I suppose. Could imagine it would make some trips far more arduous.

If I happens I hope everyone drives in from of garda and don't move over. Seeing the speed most of them soon around town would be quite frustrating for them.

Shefwedfan

jams100 wrote: »

What happens if a garda member sets up a speed check in a 30 zone catches a few drivers doing lets say 37/38 yet cyclists who might be doing the exact same speed are let go? There'd be uproar!
30km/h makes sense only in specific areas like parts of the quays near happeny bridge, O'Connell street, parnell street, Jervis street, dawson street and some residential areas etc.
A 30km/h speed limit on the Merrion road and around pearse street, mount street, James' street and Mountbrown makes no sense, especially so at night. If common sense isn't applied to where 30km/h speed limits are placed its simple: people won't comply with it

Why would their be uproar?

Chiparus

Experience_day wrote: »

30 is a retarded speed. Hopping around in 1st 2nd gear? Good way to burn more fuel I suppose. Could imagine it would make some trips far more arduous.

If I happens I hope everyone drives in from of garda and don't move over. Seeing the speed most of them soon around town would be quite frustrating for them.

Cant understand the need to race to get to the end of the next queue of traffic.

micar

jams100 wrote: »

What happens if a garda member sets up a speed check in a 30 zone catches a few drivers doing lets say 37/38 yet cyclists who might be doing the exact same speed are let go?

A person cycling within the city will rarely get up to those speeds.....It's pure race pace.

I suggest you get a bike and try.

I would average about 28km per hour......ranging between 25-30km per hour and I'm a decent cyclist.

Vast majority would cycle under 20 km per hour

Shefwedfan

Experience_day wrote: »

30 is a retarded speed. Hopping around in 1st 2nd gear? Good way to burn more fuel I suppose. Could imagine it would make some trips far more arduous.

If I happens I hope everyone drives in from of garda and don't move over. Seeing the speed most of them soon around town would be quite frustrating for them.

Buying an auto and you won’t know what gear your in

Seth Brundle

Experience_day wrote: »

30 is a retarded speed. Hopping around in 1st 2nd gear? Good way to burn more fuel I suppose. Could imagine it would make some trips far more arduous.

If you find that you can only use 1st and 2nd gears when driving at 30km/h if recommend getting some driving lessons tbh!

Experience_day wrote: »

If I happens I hope everyone drives in from of garda and don't move over. Seeing the speed most of them soon around town would be quite frustrating for them.

How mature! Let's all block the emergency services because the council have brought in a new speed limit.
Anyhow the gardai are ****** for not letting us get to the next set of red lights quickly :rolleyes:

Experience_day

Seth Brundle wrote: »

If you find that you can only use 1st and 2nd gears when driving at 30km/h if recommend getting some driving lessons tbh!

How mature! Let's all block the emergency services because the council have brought in a new speed limit.
Anyhow the gardai are ****** for not letting us get to the next set of red lights quickly :rolleyes:

18mph is a pretty low speed....what gear you suggesting rolling around in? In 3rd gear even in my piece of **** you'd be looking at touching the accelerator to be breaking the "law"....


And obviously not blocking for people with flashing lights that would be unethical. But there's a high proportion of Garda in Dublin City centre that speed every damn where they please and clearly not going anywhere special.

magicbastarder

Experience_day wrote: »

18mph is a pretty low speed

it is, and it happens to be over one and a half times what the average rush hour speed in dublin was before the pox hit.

even now - a sunday evening where traffic is very light, according to google maps the drive from DCU to UCD would be done at an average speed of 32km/h. a 30km/h limit would barely change that.

Shefwedfan

Experience_day wrote: »

18mph is a pretty low speed....what gear you suggesting rolling around in? In 3rd gear even in my piece of **** you'd be looking at touching the accelerator to be breaking the "law"....


And obviously not blocking for people with flashing lights that would be unethical. But there's a high proportion of Garda in Dublin City centre that speed every damn where they please and clearly not going anywhere special.

Have you driven in Dublin during rush hour? unless you are one of those plonkers that races from one red light to another you hardly ever go up any gears.

PommieBast

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you walk along in the middle of the road like most people do in the bicycle lane expect the cars to be an issue as well

Last time a cyclist collided with me it was on the pavement and I had just stepped out of a building. He was riding right up against the wall. :mad:

Shefwedfan

PommieBast wrote: »

Last time a cyclist collided with me it was on the pavement and I had just stepped out of a building. He was riding right up against the wall. :mad:

Yes I’m sure that happened :-)

RobbieMD

jams100 wrote: »

Stand on dame street and watch cyclists speed coming on the downhill stretch from Christchurch. I'm not an anti-cyclist by any means, earlier in this thread I was asking why it takes 4 years to build a cycle lane on the quays? Somethings just have to be gotten on with but I stand by my point if I was caught doing 37 at 8am on Sunday morning and a cyclist doing the same speed was let go I'd be furious (I would be in the bracket of a safe driver btw, very rarely break speed limits no penalty points etc). My overall point is that a blanket 30km/h speed limit is ridiculous

I’m 99% certain that cyclists can’t be prosecuted for the specific offence of speeding so there’s no need to be furious if they’re “let go”

Hamsterchops

Over the last few days I've tested out driving @ 30kph and I've come to the conclusion that that it was meant to be 30mph (50kmph). There is no way that you can sustain 30kmph (18mph) for any length of time, certainly not in a diesel that's chugging along between gears.

I think the person who thought of this crazy limit is of a certain age, remembering back to when 30MPH was used to slow down traffic in built up areas, and somehow this has been accidentally transcribed into 30kmph.

Driving on a main road/ dual carriageway @30kph (18mph) for a sustained period is total madness (unless you're in a funeral cortege).

kenmm

RobbieMD wrote: »

I’m 99% certain that cyclists can’t be prosecuted for the specific offence of speeding so there’s no need to be furious if they’re “let go”

While it is legal, I think it was more to do with the Irish sense of "But that's not fair howcome XX gets to do that and I can't" cry baby nonsense.

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Over the last few days I've tested out driving @ 30kph and I've come to the conclusion that that it was meant to be 30mph (50kmph). There is no way that you can sustain 30kmph (18mph) for any length of time, certainly not in a diesel that's chugging along between gears ...

I think the person who thought of this crazy limit is of a certain age, remembering back to when 30MPH was used to slow down traffic in built up areas, and somehow this has been accidentally transcribed into 30kmph.

Driving on a main road/ dual carriageway @30kph (18mph) for a sustained period is total madness (unless you're in a funeral cortege).

30 is slow but I could drive any car at 20/30 in 2nd or 3rd no issue - fu(k most diesels would (reluctantly!) do it in higher gears.

It is a pain in the hole, but its not like its its some impossible situation that requires a mechanical feat of engineering to overcome.


This decision wouldn't have came about lightly. Its tried in other countries and would have been chosen for a number of reasons (reduction of pollution (emissions, noise and others), reducing ave speed, general psychological effect of raising awareness around speed etc) and not just because some senile old fart confused miles and kilometres.

Seth Brundle

No they weren't confused between km/h and mph! :rolleyes:

magicbastarder

Hamsterchops wrote: »

There is no way that you can sustain 30kmph (18mph) for any length of time, certainly not in a diesel that's chugging along between gears.

how do diesels cope with traffic jams?

Hamsterchops

kenmm wrote: »

30 is slow but I could drive any car at 20/30 in 2nd or 3rd no issue - fu(k most diesels would (reluctantly!) do it in higher gears.

It is a pain in the hole, but its not like its its some impossible situation that requires a mechanical feat of engineering to overcome.

Sorry to disagree, but as a very experienced driver of well over thirty years I can safely say that holding (in my case) a 1.6 HDI engine to 30kph is very difficult, as it can be in 2nd or 3rd (just about), but it's tricky to hold it there...

Interestingly the cruise control kicks in @40kph (24MPH) in 4th gear, which would be easy to mintain all day on the flat, if needs be

Shefwedfan

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Over the last few days I've tested out driving @ 30kph and I've come to the conclusion that that it was meant to be 30mph (50kmph). There is no way that you can sustain 30kmph (18mph) for any length of time, certainly not in a diesel that's chugging along between gears.

I think the person who thought of this crazy limit is of a certain age, remembering back to when 30MPH was used to slow down traffic in built up areas, and somehow this has been accidentally transcribed into 30kmph.

Driving on a main road/ dual carriageway @30kph (18mph) for a sustained period is total madness (unless you're in a funeral cortege).

You can't if you are a terrible driver. If you are constantly in traffic and doing 30km/h then you shouldnt be driving a diesel in the first place. But that's another topic.



Germany/France/Belgium etc etc etc all have a 30km/h speed limit in residential areas and cities.

kenmm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Sorry to disagree, but as a very experienced driver of well over thirty years I can safely say that holding (in my case) a 1.6 HDI engine to 30kph is very difficult, as it can be in 2nd or 3rd (just about), but it's tricky to hold it there...

Interestingly the cruise control kicks in @40kph (24MPH) in 4th gear, which would be easy to mintain all day on the flat, if needs be

At a guess I have driven easily over a thousand different cars over 20 odd years, mainly a mix of petrol and diesel. I don't agree at all.

Its a little bit of a pain if you were to live in a hilly area over distance, but not much. Cruise control is irrelevant, more hassle than its worth in town and if you don't like changing gears, go auto.

Infini

I'll be honest if they expect people to drive that slow on main roads they're living on another planet, people wont drive that slow on big roads and it will get ignored entirely.

kenmm

Infini wrote: »

I'll be honest if they expect people to drive that slow on main roads they're living on another planet, people wont drive that slow on big roads and it will get ignored entirely.

Doubly honest of you! - but yes - apart from the initial few weeks where it will be policed, it will go back to normal - where people do what they want.

But maybe instead of people doing 65/70 in a 50, it will be 40-55 in a 30 - and that might be enough.

Shefwedfan

Infini wrote: »

I'll be honest if they expect people to drive that slow on main roads they're living on another planet, people wont drive that slow on big roads and it will get ignored entirely.

Happy days for the speeding van.



If people are not able to abide by the rules of the road they shouldn't be on it in the first place. So hopefully they will get enough points to kick them off it and that will reduce the traffic then

magicbastarder

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Interestingly the cruise control kicks in @40kph (24MPH) in 4th gear, which would be easy to mintain all day on the flat, if needs be

we're talking about a few km within dublin city typically here, we're not talking about changing the limits on the M1.