Affordable/comfortable bike

rowanh

Hey folks,

I have a Whyte victoria




I find it really uncomfortable, I would like a really upright bike with "dutch" style ergonomics. I think commuting on it in the past was fine when I was trying to get to work as fast as possible but "cruising" on it just seems unpleasant. Weight on hands etc, im getting pain in my upper back. It was fitted when I bought it.

I cycled my girlfriends Raleigh Cameo for about 8kms on the weekend,



It is a bit heavy, only has 7 gears, the saddle got very uncomfortable and the styling is obviously a little feminine. I would like something with this saddle/handlebar position but in a mens bike.

Looking at Hybrid bikes for sale online it seems the vast majority of bikes hanve the handlebars at the same height as the seat and the stem has them in front of the column (not sure of name) its attached to rather than behind it. Then looking at "Dutch" bikes, they seem to mostly cost 1000 euros. I want something to pop around town and go out for a cycle on the weekend the odd time, it seems ridiculous to spend 1000 euro..

So just wondering if anyone has any suggestions.. I am not sure on budget, I dont want something so cheap that it is junk..

smacl

One low cost option could be to simply re-configure your existing bike to suit your preferred style of riding. Replace the stem with an adjustable stem and change the bars to give you a wider variety of hand positions. Something like butterfly bars. Slightly wider tyres would also add a bit of comfort. Also check the saddle height to see if it suits you comfort wise.

crosswords

If you have sore hands try moving the saddle back a bit.

You could also fit a riser handle bar to give you a more upright position.

rowanh

I was going to try modifying it, first i was thinking an adjustable stem then that plus handlebars but it just seemed a bit complicated and I was thinking I might end up with something worse or with a bike in bits and never fixed etc.. I was worried about things like the gears/brakes fitting on the new handlebars..

So if I was going to try an adjustable stem. I can see from the bike specs that the handlebars are 31.8mm. I cannot find any reference to the bit the stem bolts onto, I think the steerer tube. Are these generally all the same size? I am looking at adjustable stems on ebay and they seem to have the handbar size but not the steerer size..

ie

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MTB-Adjustable-Mountain-Bike-Stem-Road-Bicycle-Handlebar-Fork-Riser-25-4-31-8mm/124205336727?hash=item1ceb370897:m:meHtOaB3lnmcvxgLKOOcGmA

cletus

rowanh wrote: »

I was going to try modifying it, first i was thinking an adjustable stem then that plus handlebars but it just seemed a bit complicated and I was thinking I might end up with something worse or with a bike in bits and never fixed etc.. I was worried about things like the gears/brakes fitting on the new handlebars..

So if I was going to try an adjustable stem. I can see from the bike specs that the handlebars are 31.8mm. I cannot find any reference to the bit the stem bolts onto, I think the steerer tube. Are these generally all the same size? I am looking at adjustable stems on ebay and they seem to have the handbar size but not the steerer size..

ie

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/MTB-Adjustable-Mountain-Bike-Stem-Road-Bicycle-Handlebar-Fork-Riser-25-4-31-8mm/124205336727?hash=item1ceb370897:m:meHtOaB3lnmcvxgLKOOcGmA

The 31.8 refers to the area on the handlebars where it is clamped in the stem

rowanh

cletus wrote: »

The 31.8 refers to the area on the handlebars where it is clamped in the stem

Sorry, i didnt explain that very well, its the other side I was asking about though having looked a good bit at risers I think its likely 28.6mm as thats the standard..

flipped the stem around on the bike, so it is pointing inwards. Feels very weird though i think it might just be too low and close, my knees bang off my hands while turning and peddling.. Seems very easy to change bits around though so I might just buy this stuff and see what happens..



If anyone thinks this is a bad idea id appreciate their input. I was trying to figure out the bikes geometry compared to a dutch bike and it doesn't seem miles off it so I guess it might feel ok..

You can see here the overlay with a riser drawn in.

magicbastarder

are you happy that the bike you have was sold to you at the correct size? you mention it was fitted when you bought it, but what size were you sold, and what height are you?

magicbastarder

crosswords wrote: »

If you have sore hands try moving the saddle back a bit.

forward, surely?

crosswords

No backwards.

More pressure on the bum, and less pressure on the hands.

magicbastarder

you'd be more stretched out though, and the goal would be to sit more upright surely?

rowanh

magicbastarder wrote: »

are you happy that the bike you have was sold to you at the correct size? you mention it was fitted when you bought it, but what size were you sold, and what height are you?

Well I bought it in 2012 so its a bit vague to be honest.

It is a size Large but it is a girls bike so it is roughly the same size as a Whyte Portabello which is the mens version. I am 178cm / 5'10 ish

I was looking at a Giant Rapid and a couple other flat bar road bikes and when I cycled the Whyte it felt the best. I think now, I just do not want this style of bike. I want something to meander around on.

Also on the saddle I was thinking the same thing, what I want is to be upright, moving the saddle back seems like it would do the opposite..

smacl

rowanh wrote: »

flipped the stem around on the bike, so it is pointing inwards. Feels very weird though i think it might just be too low and close, my knees bang off my hands while turning and peddling.. Seems very easy to change bits around though so I might just buy this stuff and see what happens..

If anyone thinks this is a bad idea id appreciate their input. I was trying to figure out the bikes geometry compared to a dutch bike and it doesn't seem miles off it so I guess it might feel ok..

Not seeing your images but flipping the stem to point inwards sounds like a bad idea and as mentioned above also suggests the bike is the wrong size for you. FWIW, I setup my old sports hybrid up for someone much shorter than me who's staying with us during the lock down. Seatpost all the way down, saddle all the way forward and adjustable stem 45 degrees upward. Works well enough though not the ideal solution.

rowanh

I was trying to share the images from google photos, seems they only show for me even after sharing.

I don't think the bike is the wrong size, I think the issue is the bikes riding position is leaning forward and I want a bike with an upright riding position. I just flipped teh stem around to see how much of a difference it made to the lean angle by bringing the bars back around 20cm or whatever it is.

magicbastarder

rowanh wrote: »

I think now, I just do not want this style of bike. I want something to meander around on.

yep, if you've found a bike which is going to be very hard to replicate with your current one, it'd probably be less faff to switch than it would be to try to bodge into shape.

rowanh

This is the stuff I was thinking of buying



Me sitting on bike with stem flipped



Riding position i want



+ this is the bike with the dutch bike overlaid

crosswords

Seriously .....don't do this.

Your hand pain will be the least of your worries.

magicbastarder

yeah, the bike may be exceptionally weird to steer; the steering geometry was designed by the original (professional) bike designer and you'll be completely messing with it.

rowanh

magicbastarder wrote: »

yeah, the bike may be exceptionally weird to steer; the steering geometry was designed by the original (professional) bike designer and you'll be completely messing with it.

This is what I was thinking initially though looking at the photo of the Dutch bike overlaid it seems like the rake angle / trail / wheelbase are all quite similar so I am curious would it.. Might be worth trying for 60 euro.. Maybe the riser is a bit much and just having it up and back a bit with an adjustable stem at the full height and bars that come back would be enough of a change in the riding position for me to be happy.

The thing that was putting me off was a complete lack of other people doing this, maybe I'm just a trendsetter! :cool: More likely an idiot.. I think the geometry of my bike is more like a mountain bike than a road bike so it might be that it would actually be better suited to this kind of modification, well or worse..

ED E

BSP Metropolis? https://dutchbikeshop.ie/bsp-metropolis-2/

rowanh

My original question was actually what is a good bike with those ergonomics that doesnt cost around 1000 euro, that one is 900 with 7 gears


So I have just spent the last hour reading about bike geometry and steering mechanics. To me it seems like the Dutch bike above and my bike are almost identical. I would be curious if someone could explain how this is not the case. I may well be missing something..

smacl

rowanh wrote: »

To me it seems like the Dutch bike above and my bike are almost identical. I would be curious if someone could explain how this is not the case. I may well be missing something..

Handlebar and stem length affect how twitchy the steering is. Smaller movements on short bars with a short stem equate to larger angular movement on the front wheel than longer bars and longer stem. You'd need to see the dutch bike in plan, but I'm guessing the long swept back bars equate to a longer stem and are also possibly wider than your flat bars. Basically, the larger the radius of the circle your hands rest on for steering, the less twitchy the steering.

Cetyl Palmitate

rowanh wrote: »

My original question was actually what is a good bike with those ergonomics that doesnt cost around 1000 euro, that one is 900 with 7 gears


So I have just spent the last hour reading about bike geometry and steering mechanics. To me it seems like the Dutch bike above and my bike are almost identical. I would be curious if someone could explain how this is not the case. I may well be missing something..

Bottom bracket is lower on the Dutch bike which will lower your saddle height and center of gravity. Otherwise fairly similar but not similar enough to be able to recreate the position exactly.

As has been suggested, the simplest fix would be an adjustable stem set to the most vertical position possible.

I wouldn't worry about twitchy steering. At speeds around town it would not be noticeable. Plenty of city bikes have very short stems.

Caroline_ie

Right ... I need to jump in. I wanted to recommend you tried a unicycle. Much less pressure on the hands. No, please don't do it, it is actually a joke.

I think you got the wrong bike and it's a ridicoulous idea to try and modify it. The bike is designed to be ridden the way it is, and it is just not suitable for what you want.

Have you ever thought that maybe, the reason why you're sore on the hands and upper back, is because you're not used to riding a bike? If you start any new exercise you are not used to, you will feel pain. That's normal. Your upper body and arms are not used to be in that position. In time your upper body will get used to the position and your muscle will get stronger | ie: your core will strenghen, you won't be resting 'dead weight' on your poor wrists etc etc.

Also, a lot of newer cyclists tend to grab on to the bar too tightly, that too would reduce with time.

I cannot believe some of the advice you got on this thread, man. Sell this bike and get a hight nelly if that's what you want.

my 2c.

mvt

You know you're in trouble when Caroline gets on your case

rowanh

Caroline_ie wrote: »

it's a ridicoulous idea to try and modify it.

Sounds like a challenge! Im ordering the bits now!




I will report back.

Caroline_ie

Good luck with that.